My Three "Laws"
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Well, Matahari,
As far as I am concerned, you are the only one who is staying to the proper contents of the thread. Well, perhaps, after repeated situations, I have managed to stay by my first law. Still I do not know when and how to react if the situation arises which would possibly lead me to break my first law. The first law, from the start, is just a guideline, propelled by the reason of "do not do unto others if you do not want the same thing happen to you."
Well, truthfully it's my first gut instinct that the breaking of your first law is a sort of competition. (No, I didn't terrorize you because of that =) It's rather easy to forget that it's a real man's heart that one plays with when the adrenalin for a pursuit runs high.
Now that it has stopped being absolute, how do you know when to react? I like absolutes, anything else confuse me. I know you think that when it happens, you'll consider it case by case but as far as I know, it's hard to be impartial in this sort of thing. Rationalizations are rampant and all...
A hidden theme which a lot of people had not managed to catch and fail to understand in this thread, is about people being shunned for such thoughts which are considered anomalous or selfless. What is the basis of breaking the first law? To pursue your personal happiness. I have no qualms about that, but what people fail to understand, in doing that, they hurt other people. So, going back to Tet's earlier thread on Fast Car and Fancy Woman, it is the same question redirected in another way thru this thread,"is it really true that Man who are not "bad" in a relative sense, just cannot be loved by woman?" This theme has been explemified in many instances, even in this thread as well.
The competition to break the first law is merely childish and immature. The whole point is to think about why people of today can condone adultery now and not yesterday. I do believe, on a certain level, people's social values are degrading and we could no longer adhere to any absolute standard, for example, the Ten Commandments.
Let's see what happens from here.
Do take care.
yours sincerely,
Prodigal
"Dogma is the root of all evil when one forgets why one has believed a refutable truth to be the absolute truth."
- Prodigal -
Animal?? More like the beast in you .Originally posted by tet:2 gals 1 guy... 2 guys abit too stressful for me... what if I cant please them? Then again, M shoot me back with a reply, "Whoever said you should please them? Make them please you!" Now, that's what I call Gurrrrrrrl Power. *grin*
Btw, I'm only wild with the right crowd. M and T brings out the animal in me... wooohooo!
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well james,
i believe that colette has answered your queries.
as for my own frank opinions, personally, i hate chatting on the phone, and so dun normally give out my number unless necessary. so hopefully that the girl that you are trying to get close to isn't like me, or it'll take forever. hehe
sparkle. -
Well, Tet,Originally posted by tet:Beast? Hmm... now that's an idea...
Oh sexy M... I found a really cool looking 9 hooks whip under my bed... how abt some shopping for leather goods to add some effect to it?
Remember to buy black and slutty ones, actually lingerie is just as good... Well, M is the expert on BDSM... enjoy your threesome... :p
yours,
Prodigal -
What a day...
Ever had one of those days(daze) when you spent the WHOLE day reading a book only to know out that it really sucked
What a waste of time ...
I didn't read a book.. but it was something like that today.. *ack*
Sorry to disappoint you, Lady Colette, but I am not "The One".
The Oracle with the cookie said so..
I'm yet to be the "hell breaking loose" person as Proddy foretold... *bow*
*hmmm*.. maybe "He-who-comes-before".
(Don't read too much into that.. *heh*)
Hope all of you had a more fulfilling day than I...
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"Love is in the air. Arm the SAMs" -
"Lingerie, threesomes, First Law... Oh my.." (Sorry Tolkien)
Well, Mata (of fact),
not you didn't mata, but the truth of the mata was that today really kept me busy..
As for the dress code.. try a toga? *ack*
Prod,
*ahem* .. that statement/quote on "Dogma".. nice that you thought it through *heheheh*
I really shouldn't be into this, it's breaking every Law I have...
Consider this too, my good man, remember the case of "observations disturb the observed state"?
Does the fact that you throwing your 1st Law to the floor (us dah!) and it having such an effect on the lady(ies) demonstrate that?
Or contradicts it ?
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"Beware of what you think, it may reflect what you are.." - Grey -
Well, Shadeofgrey
Had one of these days back before I started travelling today. Well, at least, I have a fruitful day, venturing the ancient ruins and temples in Mamallapuram. But now, I have to be back on the terminal to finish up the work which I am due on Tuesday.. Long nite ahead for me on the other continent of Asia.
As for "all hell break loose", we shall see. I suggest that you should look at that new marriage thread which I wrote.
Do take care.
Quoth the Prodigal,
Evermore -
Like I always say, do allow a quantum fluctuation in your life, since quantum fluctuations are not necessarily bad all the time. It is tiring being the observer who is not interfering or twiting the system.. Everything interacts with everything in reality. Sometimes, inaction is also an action and it affects reality as well.. The first law is an approximation to my own reality, and the effect on the ladies is quite explicit as we can see from the thread..Originally posted by shadeofgrey:*ahem* .. that statement/quote on "Dogma".. nice that you thought it through *heheheh*
I really shouldn't be into this, it's breaking every Law I have...
Consider this too, my good man, remember the case of "observations disturb the observed state"?
Does the fact that you throwing your 1st Law to the floor (us dah!) and it having such an effect on the lady(ies) demonstrate that?
Or contradicts it ?
Do take care.
yours sincerely,
Prodigal
"Human beings are not classical objects and they do not obey standard laws, so do allow quantum fluctuations." - Prodigal -
Originally posted by shadeofgrey:
darn it! another wasted effort. i give up.
Sorry to disappoint you, Lady Colette, but I am not "The One".
The Oracle with the cookie said so..
I'm yet to be the "hell breaking loose" person as Proddy foretold... *bow*
*hmmm*.. maybe "He-who-comes-before".
(Don't read too much into that.. *heh*) -
Despair not...
I'm sure this Terence will come around someday
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"There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't." -
*giggles*
Shadeofgrey, babeeey, what about a toga with nothing else underneath? I know someone who has just graduated and perhaps I can borrow his toga...
Prodigal, as T might say, a discussion is not fun at all if everyone starts to agree. Take care that not everyone who gives all sort of reasons that your arguments are false is looking down at your beliefs. In any case, I would prefer it if this discussion is not taken too personally, we can send each other emails for personal stuff.
You insist that women seek bad men for reasons no one understand. I tried to tell you that bad men seem more exciting. We are not infallible and matters concerning the heart are very tricky because they are not always logical. It may be obvious that a certain bad guy, however "exciting" he is is beyond redemption but we insist that there is still hope. What I have learnt is that all problems can only be solved with the other person. Discussions, strangers in the form of counsellors and even friends cannot do that for us.
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There are two kinds of people: those who think that there are two kinds of people and those smart enough to know better -
and no, that T won't come to colette, *wicked laffter*
colette sayang.
I can't believe you let a man who cannot appreciate your accomplishments aside from looks or whatsnot bring you down, that doesn't sound like healthy, wholesome colette that I know. I know rejection sucks, you may want to learn from Callan how to handle them =)
tetrumon: heh, heh, and I saw this beautiful furry white cuff that will suit our purpose well. So who's place is it gonna be at? If there's no one in _my_ place, we can make the 'torturee' scream as much as he wants...under the rubber gag of course. And what Proddy said about my BDSM mastery is almost true, I nearly failed maths last year because I spent too much time browsing those black sites, heh heh
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There are two kinds of people: those who think that there are two kinds of people and those smart enough to know better -
while I am at it, I am waiting for the night to fall because supposedly my Appolo will descent from the sky to rest the night in my boudoir. I tried sending a messenger to his place due to wild hope that he is just waiting there for me, helas the messenger returned with the message: send another one later. If only he had known how my heart beat wildly during the absence of the messenger.
meanwhile i am afraid of chasing other (sorry) lesser gods because it seems that we are made of sticky matter, somewhat like a chewed bubble-gum. A little interaction and suddenly you find a bit of the other person on you and vice versa, how scarry. i am hardly myself nowadays.
If my appolo won't regain his strength until mooncake festival is over, will shadeofgrey accompany me peruse BDSM sites on Tuesday?
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There are two kinds of people: those who think that there are two kinds of people and those smart enough to know better -
Hmmm, Matahari,
Actually, I concur with T's concept of discussion, as both of us had debated a lot on different issues on our last meeting when he visited me. A difference in opinions, is alright to me. As far as I know, the early part of this thread, the difference in opinions allow a review in the whole issue. I believe in a respect of beliefs, and I think someone like T or even James~, who I know holds different opinions from me, and yet I know that we respect each other's point of view and learn from each other. There are some people who held different opinions, but show no respect for the other side of the argument and insist they are right, even I would give way.
Let me re-state the interpretation of the question, I seek to re-address in the problem of "bad" men. Note, I have nothing against "bad" men in the first place. In very strict sense, most of our values are very superficial at all. I can always choose to be an arid anarchist and start being chaotic and turned the society into might means right. In the same sense, what I am trying to say here is that suppose we start to condone something more and more, and let it loose without forcing a conscience into the issue, society would degenerate faster and quicker into the slums, in terms of values. Being hypocritical to evade the issue by saying that someone seems "exciting" does not take away the fact that you are looking something on the surface.
Actually, I am trying to illustrate the point that some women always complain that there are no nice guys around. There are, but they find them "boring" and not exciting, which actually they are, but the women decided to not to explore the nice guy by first impression, so the complain contradicts the whole point which they are trying to make.What I have learnt is that all problems can only be solved with the other person. Discussions, strangers in the form of counsellors and even friends cannot do that for us.
I beg to differ, because I have done that before and it worked. Nevertheless, it is only an example, but it serves as the only counterexample which can overturn this assertion of yours. It does not throw any weight on invalidating the statement, which is in general, true.
Do take care.
yours,
Prodigal
"Why should there be only 2 kinds of people? It could 3, 4 or even to an infinity..." -
Hmmm, Matahari,
Well, have to modify this one, otherwise it is a double post.
Just one note : in any case, I am not feeling personal about the stuff here, but disappointed on the level that superficiality and cynicism has overtaken the society as a whole. I just want to clarify one thing : having principles does not equate to being boring or exciting. I think if there is nothing more to be said, I believe that the discussion on the thread is to end.
Anyway, enjoy your 3-some with T and Tet. Yeah, BDSM, u are the expert....
yours,
Prodigal
"What doesn't kill you, will make you stronger. True, but it does kill a part of you."
[This message has been edited by prodigal (edited 11 September 2000).] -
ack...Originally posted by Matahari:and no, that T won't come to colette, *wicked laffter*
colette sayang.
I can't believe you let a man who cannot appreciate your accomplishments aside from looks or whatsnot bring you down, that doesn't sound like healthy, wholesome colette that I know. I know rejection sucks, you may want to learn from Callan how to handle them =)
did i just intrude on a tragedy in the making?
There are 2 kinds of people:
Those who say there are 2 kinds of people,
And those who say:
"There are 2 kinds of people:
Those who say there are 2 kinds of people,
And those who say:
"There are 2 kinds of people:
Those who say there are 2 kinds of people,
And those who say:
"....... -
trust a computer geek to turn Ffun into 'nuff
Don't you have anything more to say but disturbing me since you are so interesting?
Prodigal:
I don't get you. First you say "you have nothing against bad men...because it is superficial". Then you say that unchecked badness will spiral down into anarchy and chaos (which from the tone of your message are to be avoided) and finally you said that finding bad men exciting are "superficial".
If many of code of morals found in society are as meaningless so as to invalidate the term bad, there are several decisions that can be taken. One can establish one's own set of moral codes or one can just ignore the problem for now. It is impossible for me and you to reach the agreement on what should and shouldn't be done, even for basic do's and dont's. Stealing is wrong, but what about finding a 20 dollar fare card on a bus? It's possible that the owner is still inside, should you go through the trouble to find him?
My question is, what is superficial? I can always booboo your laws and say that they are superficial simply because I don't agree with you and like taste, what's not mine is because you don't know what I know.
Therefore perhaps you can jump from saying that bad men are not that bad into labelling them future catastrophy creators. If possible, my friend, everyone can do whatever they want to do just as long as they don't hurt me (politically correct: "others") and what is mine (pc again, others' rights). The word adultery won't exist if it is perfectly fine to have more than one lovers at one go. To some, such 'paranoia' towards adultery can be said superficial, too.
Finally, chasing excitement is a fact, what is hypocritical about it? Someone is being hypocritical when he says something and does another thing, isn't that what it means?
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There are two kinds of people: those who think that there are two kinds of people and those smart enough to know better -
Dear Matahari,
Actually, I really have nothing to say anymore on the subject. I find that the more I say, people would continue to construct Prodigal as a "boring" man with silly little principles. But then who cares about what they think and say anyway.
For once, I find it tiring to explain what I am saying. I have been saying it over and over again in a few threads. Let me sum it up using a very characteristic fairy tale :
Once upon a time, there once lived a computer geek in Boston, named Moron who is a expert code breaker. He is like a Robin hood, and he works as a financial analyst in the day and a computer hacker in the night. He wears big glasses and don't really look good from the first sight. He is frank and direct, and not any Christian or Catholic. he spent his time on weekends helping old folks in a Catholic home.
One day, Moron met a sweet and cute gal called Idiot who came from a Christian family with all those virtues taught to her. Moron was enchanted by Idiot and decided to go out for her. He was always sweet to her and never tried to hurt her. But because by being nice and sweet to her, Idiot found him boring. At the same time, there was a "bad" guy who bullies old ladies in the street, smoke and take drugs and he is called Asshole. Somehow, Idiot fell in love with Asshole because she liked his motorcycle. So, she kept hanging out with him, because Asshole is exciting. Idiot always pay for his movie ticket, dinner and etc. Poor Moron lost the competition and returned to his normal life, being shattered but still treated people as they are.. So, she lost her virginity to him, and then she got pregnant and then she married Asshole, who became a Christian for her, and then treated her initially well, because he possessed her and be proud of himself in front of his gang. However, when he married her because she was pregnant, he treated her badly, and had no jobs and always rely on her to make money for him. Worse, Asshole slept with other women as well. And the tragedy carried on for her. But that is besides the point. We will not continue this human tragedy.
What happened to Moron? Well, he never got married because the rest of the gals, be it Cretin, Shit, and Slut, all did the same thing to him, yet for his whole life, he had never hurted anyone, and sticked to his principles of being nice.
So, let me ask you : what is the moral of the story? So should Idiot has become Asshole instead to woo gals? Though the gals think that he shouldn't, but he was still treated shabbily by them and rejected at the first instant.
By using this extreme little fairy tale I fabricated, I guess u should more or less get my point. For a disclaimer, I am not shooting at anyone here.
Do take care.
yours sincerely
Prodigal
"Men are not chosen by women because of good and bad, but by exciting and boring, which the definitions of them aren't any clear either." -
if u have nothing else to say...just some dangling strings to snip off
that story is yours, prodigal, it's not even open for interpretation in one part or another, it's sadly too one sided and just one of the infinite possibilities that may happen in a life time.
i know that human should learn from experience, but i also know that stereotyping is what learning from expereience is most of the time so i choose not to learn, not like that.
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There are two kinds of people: those who think that there are two kinds of people and those smart enough to know better -
Originally posted by Matahari:
I think that line in BOLD just told me everything I need to know in this two-sided argument...
i know that human should learn from experience, but i also know that stereotyping is what learning from expereience is most of the time so i choose not to learn, not like that.
*sigh*
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Are my standards too high; or did the World fall short? -
Dear Matahari,
Experience is the name that everyone gave to their mistakes. I don't think experience makes people pay a lot of fees, but nevertheless, it is not a total gauge of how one should handle the situation. How many times, I must say to you that moderation and relative would be a more appropriate way to approach things? Besides, the fairy tale I gave is just one of the classical cases and never did I say that there does not exist quantum fluctuations in things, i.e. the other possibilities. In the probabilistic way of arguing, it is likely the most possible scenario.
Actually, the story is not really one sided, if you can see the pun which I used in the tale. I am just being realistic and perhaps bring out something which a lot of people in this forum are self-conceited and refused to admit. People love to believe in miracles and fairy tales, and I believe in making the impossible possible, yet the dream cannot be weaved without by one hand, it takes two hands to clap.
Shadeofgrey pointed two things which no one has bothered to follow up, even though it was 4 lines in the post. If one looked properly at that post earlier on, some people just wanted to have fun at the expense, attacking for the sake of fun, ignoring the consistency and logic of the arguments, conscience, courtesy and propriety. The other thing is what you said which contradicted yourself.
I don't think that being bitter is the way to do things. People do things which will indirectly cause their own repercussions. I will just wait for the day when some people would come to me, suffer the consequences of irresponsible actions and words, and asked me why it happened and would even accuse me of not telling me. These people would ever get from me, is no sympathy nor empathy, but just a simple reply,"I did tell u so, but u just did not listen."
Do take care.
yours sincerely,
Prodigal
"I refuse to believe in cynicism, because it belongs to losers, and I am no loser." -
The only thing I can tell u : Compromise and hope for the best. Now u understand why I sighed when u enter into this forum. Sometimes, I feel that it's a mistake that M has made in getting u here. Even a person like me who can compromise, I can still find some disappointing people. I really cannot imagine what would happen to my best friend who can't.Originally posted by shadeofgrey:Are my standards too high; or did the World fall short?
Do take care.
yours sincerely,
Prodigal
"Dogma is the root of all evil when one starts to believe a refutable truth into an absolute truth."
- Prodigal -
Originally posted by shadeofgrey:
dear shady
I think that line in [b]BOLD just told me everything I need to know in this two-sided argument...
*sigh*
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Are my standards too high; or did the World fall short?[/B]
unfair, i said i didn't want to learn it that way, you can't treat my post like a buffet for you to pick on and choose -
dear prodigal
as easy as i am, it is hard to discuss things with someone who adopts the pose of a teacher. before you point a pedantic finger at me and say that I refuse to learn because I am conceited, tell me first why are we in this position, i.e. student-teacher.
you and shady there are two smart people, prodigal. but even smart people only hear what they want/expect to hear. -
Dear Matahari,Originally posted by Matahari:as easy as i am, it is hard to discuss things with someone who adopts the pose of a teacher. before you point a pedantic finger at me and say that I refuse to learn because I am conceited, tell me first why are we in this position, i.e. student-teacher.
you and shady there are two smart people, prodigal. but even smart people only hear what they want/expect to hear.
Actually, I don't treat our r/s as a student-teacher r/s. U are a bosom pal, and I treat you as an equal in the discussion along someone like T, James, and Shadeofgrey and other people whom I fail to mention.
As a teacher, I adopted a different style to my students. I am more a friend than an authority figure to them back in my uni, which is why my Spanish student would ask me to go clubbing with her in the latin nightclubs, my British student would ask me out for coffee or to the bar for a drink. I feel that a teacher-student is 2-way, as depicted in pure Confucianism. My best student and I confide to each other about our love lives and personal stuff as if we are best of friends, yet he shows respect when I teach him new things to broaden his thinking skills. There are people whom u teach, but they never learn, even if u point the right path to them. Some people learned it easy, some people learned it the hard way, and some learned it after going thru a period of difficulty of being ignorant. I still expect a certain amount of respect from my students, even if they want to demostrate immature behaviour in front of me.
If you think that the finger is pointed to you, I think u have felt that the arrow was directed to you. In reality and truth, it was not. I just bring out the truth, and people refuse to see it, and so, I just wait and see what repercussions people would see later.
For one thing, I can acknowledge now, I am not smart at all even the truth is otherwise but that is decided by people and not me. Only by that acknowledgement, there is a greater room for me to say I am wrong and move to a higher level. I think I mentioned that I can be wrong over a few posts in this thread. But can u?
Well, do take care.
yours sincerely,
Prodigal
"Learning is like traversing the seas against the wind, if u don't advance, you fall back."