Used Rubbers for insertion??
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I'm talking about when u drill your finger holes, wat's the diff between putting finger insert and not?? Let's discuss!!
YOU ALL MUST HAVE BEEN ATTRACTED BY THE "DIRTY" SUBJECT!! EEEwwww.....
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i guess to have better control when you lift your ball.
of course, i am refering to bowling ball.
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Hihi, finger inserts let you have a better grip i guess but the bridge between the middle and ring finger tends to have a wider gap.... i feel that the narrower the bridge between the two fingers, the more power you can get, So i guess hmmm.... you tell me.
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i am using oval, turbo finger inserts now, and i also have balls not using any inserts.
i suppose the advantage of having inserts is that its easier to adjust the size of the fingerhole on different days, and for turbo insets, well... the rev given is absolutely mad.
therefore i am not using inserts anymore now, to cut down my rev to be more controllable. the feeling of no inserts feel good somehow and wun really give me the 'burning' sensation on my fingers when i try to rev up the shot. -
There is one main reason why people choose to bowl without inserts:
the fit. Many serious and frequent bowlers will tell you that with inserts, a very, VERY big problem is that over a period of time the rubber/plastic inserts will wear out, unlike that of the thumb, which never does. This means that everytime you throw a shot, even between frames, the equipment isn't reliably consistent. That's the foundation of bad shot-making. And depending on how much you bowl and how your release is like, inserts (the rubber ones, especially) wear out slowly but surely. When I was still using rubber inserts, I had to change my inserts about once every 2-3 months to keep the same approximate "feel" in the grip. Not to mention expensive.
I know there are people who consider inserts as an aid to increase revolutions. I used to think so, but not anymore. At most, the inclusion of inserts gains a person perhaps 1-2 revolutions. And this is a very good bowler. If you're a person with little hand, do not expect the inserts to give you even 2 revs over the lane. Many bowlers in Singapore do not know how to calculate revolutions.
The proper way is to use a video camera (not possible otherwise), and count how many revolutions a person has from his/her point of release to the arrows. Multiply this number by 4 to get the revolutions for the entire lane. A lot of people count all the way to the pindeck and its wrong. Most balls rev up more in the drier mid-lane and after the turn. Counting to the arrows is accurately the amount of revs off the bowlers' hand - the true measurement of revolutions.
Think inserts can give you so much more before the arrows?? Think again. -
hmm i would have to differ on that.
of course the drilling and angling of the finger also has to be at an optimum to ur shot.
i use a 1/8 reverse finger angle and 1/8 forward thumb pitch combined wif the weight on my left side of palm. use wif the inserts, due to more finger hanging time and faster cleaner thumb, i would say my rev definately has increased.
the point is, using inserts isnt any use of u dun optimise ur equiment for utilising it its max potential.
eg. forward finger 1/4 and reverse 1/2 thumb using turbo grips. even if he was a PBA bowler, i doubt he can do much unless he has hands like robert smith and tim mack.
conclusion: use inserts, make sure ur drilling suits it for ur throw. dun tink it alone can create wonders. drilling of balls and comfort level in using one is more than just one variable. -
hmmm....i was just thinking, why not have a thin flat block of higher weight (such that it only occupies the space nearest the outside of the coverstock) directly under the fingers? In this way, fingers can impart more revs, by directly applying force to the higher weight block.
...Is this the current technology now?? or is my idea wrong somewhere?? 
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Of course if other factors are involved, then the discussion about inserts would be void. As common sense dictates, I am working on the assumption that, with all other factors being held constant, inserts do not increase a bowlers revolutions by that much.
No grips allows you to feel the shot and gives you a better read if you 'caught' a shot or not. In todays game when throwing revs, the idea is not to lift the ball anyway, just watch Kelly Coffman, Pete Weber, Robert Smith, Tim Mack etc etc all those guys palm the ball into the front part of the lane and through good timing and a nice whipping motion with there wrist, they hit the ball very hard without lifting the ball at all.
Strokers lift the ball, power players palm it. Most power players who are any good tend not to use grips. All true power players put the ball down relatively early because of this.
Airgrinder
I know what you're getting at - like how an axe delivers more powerful blows with a heavier head, right? Unfortunately, you are discribing the theory behind the high RG ball. A high RG ball has its weight distributed outwards, closer to the cover than the core. Using the axe analogy, the blow is more powerful, but initially swinging it would be more difficult than if the head was light.
High RG balls have will tend to "rev up" more after the turn, hence giving a more angular breakpoint, but are also more difficult to rev off the hand.
Another consideration is that the maximum finger weight for bowling balls is only 1 ounce, and this is easily manipulated through drilling, so the block would be too small to be useful anyway.
In Singapore, many bowlers actually CANNOT use so much finger weight, because the more finger weight one has, the more length one gets. Because a lot of people here are "hook-challenged", many ball drillers actually remove their finger weights by drilling very deep finger holes. If you look at the balls of certain "hook-endowed" players, the finger holes are only deep enough for the fingertips and no deeper than that. -
Well, from wat i understand and learnt last time while hooking the ball, pulling up on the ball is an illusion that we think we see from these pro-bowlers release..therefore meaning that its not true.
Personally, my bowling balls are mostly drilled with out inserts and i use latex tape ard my fingers(not thumb), this gives me a kinda more relaxed feeling and no sizzling or pin and needles feeling after releasing the bola.
This is something that i've personally tried, upon ur downswing keep ur hand behind and under the ball, thumb exits and fingers go thru the ball(not meaning pierce the ball lah! ). And after releasing the ball, ur fingers should be pointing downwards and thumb to the front(for strokers or tweeners) and upwards(for crankers or power bowlers)
I used to play hook and didn't have the power(due to old injury on my left leg) to control my shots cos hook too much, so chg to spinner.. Paiseh.. But trust me this method will add at least another 10-15 boards to ur hook ball, and not the type that will cause ur ball to flatten out upon entry...
Dun flame me, juz how i feel.... -
mage, dun worry about getting flame or burn. This forum is about active discussion.
Harmy, high RG hard to rev up?? That's the reason it will break further down the lane? My ball is 2.43, considered low RG ball. Da**! Yet my revs is relatively weak compared to ian's. 
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Yo Jordan,Originally posted by airgrinder:Harmy, high RG hard to rev up?? That's the reason it will break further down the lane? My ball is 2.43, considered low RG ball. Da**! Yet my revs is relatively weak compared to ian's.
A higher RG ball concentrates more weight towards the cover of the ball, whereas a lower RG ball concentrates more weight towards the center of the ball. Lower Rg balls are easier to turn and will rev up quicker.
Your Tour Power is 2.46, not 2.43 actually, and yes either way that's an extremely low RG ball. One of the lowest I know. Ceterus paribus it will read the midlane early (rev up sooner and fast). I'm using a very low RG ball myself, you see.
I believe what Harmy is saying is that a higher RG takes a longer time to rev up, but in doing so it conserves energy, by rolling up later. This extra stored energy is translated in the backend reaction when it hits the dry and starts hooking/flipping due to the friction encountered.
Trouble is, high RG balls aren't exactly good mid lane readers. If thrown too fast/hard they have a tendency to skip the break point and start up too late, catching a very light hit or missing the pocket altogether. So obviously higher RG balls are meant for balls with dryer fronts/mids or lower speeds.
Don't worry about your revs. My revs are crap too. It comes with the clean thumb and the knack of "catching the ball dead" at the right time, with proper leverage blah blah...
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eh..mine not that great lah...
i do a flick at the release added by a lift to impart speed and push.
to me lifting is compulsary as lift for me allows the flick to be controllable. if i do not lift and give it the speed... you can start betting on me hitting only pin 7.
hmm maybe i shouldnt use the word lift as its actually just the end product of the swing. anyway, the problem about having my kind of power shot is that u must have a proper ball for the proper lanes. if not..flat shots will occur and splits appear. so, good lane reading and a rich guy with many balls for diff lanes is a must.
of course, from my scores u can see that i dun have both, so for me to be a high average bowler is still an akan datang thing. -
hmmm.....so low RG, easier to rev up, it will start to bite early, higher RG, skips more, bites later, but more power at the end, cause it conserves energy by skipping longer. I knew that higher RG balls are for drier lanes and vice versa, but never knew abt the 'rev up' thing.
Then how do flare/differential come into the picture? I understand that both meant the same thing. Is it higher flare, more snap, more angular the angle of attack? -
sorry for going off the tread.
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I thought I was pretty clear on what I was saying. Oh well.
Prata is right - a low RG ball spools up quicker thru simple physics. But because the amount of energy imparted is the same for a bowler, regardless of which ball they use, the ball's RG distribution determines when the energy is expended.
A high RG ball has an over/under tendency because it rarely rolls heavily enough in the midlane for enough friction to occur. Enough friction for what?? Well, if a ball has enough friction in the midlane, one can observe the ball reaction.
A trained eye can tell if a ball is biting too early, too late or just nice. This is called reading the ball. And because the ball is the only thing that is in contact with the lanes, reading the ball reaction is essential to reading and mapping lanes.
Therefore a high RG ball will more easily glide past the breakpoint and will give less "read" because it doesn't bite enough. Note: This is under the assumption that one is using a high RG ball on a condition better suited for low RG balls. If high RG balls are properly matched to a lane and bowler, then it can be read as well as a low RG ball. Conversely, a low RG ball on too dry a lane won't be readable because it'll roll or hook out waaaay before the proper midlane or breakpoint area.
So Airgrinder, you aren't wrong about which balls are better suited to which lanes. It's just that you didn't know the rationale.
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I take it that you know what flare is, so I'll just explain the relationship between this and differential.
Simply put: RG determines how early a ball rolls. RG differential determines how much a ball flares.
Imagine a see-saw with a very heavy person on one end, and a much lighter person on the other. Compare this with one with equal weights on both ends. Which one will tilt more forcefully?? This illustration is somewhat similar to that of RG differential.
RG diff. refers to the difference between the highest and lowest RG values in a core. In our playground example, a big RG diff. means a big difference in weights of the two persons. Imagine the core as an off-balanced see-saw. The heavier end will want to drop down with gravity. The larger the RG diff., the faster the drop. Thus, the ball will "tilt" more, creating more flare.
Lastly, flare has nothing to do with the shape of the breakpoint. I.e. snap, arc, heavy arc. Flare only determines the amount of hook area a ball can create.
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Prata
You slacker
Leaving me to answer all these questions for the past few months. You used to contribute too. -
ohhh.....thanx ah! Didnt really understand the one sentence defintion of those RGs, flare stuff etc.
Haha.
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Actually I got one more question.
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And its a one sentence question. A bit paiseh to ask, coz, everytime the question is only abt a couple of short sentences, yet can yield a big page of text. hehe...but nvd, my skin quite thick....(that's y can tolerate cold better...)
>>What determines whether the ball snap at the breakpt or transits smoothly into an arching hook? What I used to think is: A ball with more side roll turns sharply at the breakpt, whereas a ball with max forward roll transits into an arch to the pocket. -
Air
Didnt really understand the one sentence defintion of those RGs, flare stuff etc.
What do you not understand? Perhaps I can make things easier. Normally, I post very brief replies on the forum because I am aware that long posts make the readers bored, especially the not-so-technically-inclined. So unless there is a specific question, I will not dive into the deep end.
About the factors that give a hook its shape, I am certain I've posted that some time ago in reply to a post. Curiously, I think that person was you. Haha
BUT!!I'll still roughly go through it again.
First of all, you are correct about the axis tilt (spin) thing, Airgrinder. But that applied in the urethane/pre-reactive days. As Prataman and I are so found of mentioning. If you want a history lesson, start another thread, ok?
Today's equipment while good for the game, is breeding very bad habits in new bowlers. It used to be that the shape of a hook was almost ALL down to the bowler. Today, I reckon that it's only 60% - 70% of the bowler. The rest is from the ball.
There are many, many factors. Too many to list here, I'm afraid. Prata and I could write long replies to this on a new thread, ok? Haha. Sorry. -
Sorry lah. You seem to be doing a good enough job. Ha ha ha. Then again, I think I'm a little rusty with this.Originally posted by harmzuay:Prata
You slacker Leaving me to answer all these questions for the past few months. You used to contribute too.
Hmmm ok ok I'll return to my weight-throwing self. -
For me, I cant really 'apply' what it means to the definition say :RG is a measure of weight distribution, the distance between the heaviest and the lightest block in the block....blab blab blab. So what if the dist betw the 2 blocks are 2.6 or 2.4? The most i can deduce is since as the dist btw the 2 is further, the momentum for the heavier block tends to 'pull' the ball down the lane further. I wun know which is easier to rev off. btw, thanx for the earlier answers. Now I am convince I need another ball, a higher RG one.Originally posted by harmzuay:Air
What do you not understand? Perhaps I can make things easier. Normally, I post very brief replies on the forum because I am aware that long posts make the readers bored, especially the not-so-technically-inclined. So unless there is a specific question, I will not dive into the deep end. -
Why worry so much about numbers, Jordan?
The ball already comes equipped with the numbers for you, and the pin location and CG.
Your symmetrical core balls come with pin location and CG, your asymmetrical core balls come with pin location, CG and mass bias. Your 3 piece cores, well, it doesn't even matter.
As long as you know the RG, the Differential, and the coverstock nature (pearlised/solid, reactive/particle, aggressive/control) with the pin/CG/mb you can already formulate a reaction you desire.
Now. Your Tour Power is a super quick revving ball with a solid aggressive coverstock. Although the differential is low, it still equates to quick and heavy rev and early roll (ball stands up quickly).
Now, from there you can analyse what problem you are having. Physically wise, we can't really help. Heh. But ball wise, we will definitely help you see.
Let me help you start...
You're convinced you need a higher RG ball because.....?
p/s: sorry mage, we're really going off thread here. -
Why worry so much about numbers, Jordan?Originally posted by airgrinder:For me, I cant really 'apply' what it means to the definition say :RG is a measure of weight distribution, the distance between the heaviest and the lightest block in the block....blab blab blab. So what if the dist betw the 2 blocks are 2.6 or 2.4? The most i can deduce is since as the dist btw the 2 is further, the momentum for the heavier block tends to 'pull' the ball down the lane further. I wun know which is easier to rev off. btw, thanx for the earlier answers. Now I am convince I need another ball, a higher RG one.
The ball already comes equipped with the numbers for you, and the pin location and CG.
Your symmetrical core balls come with pin location and CG, your asymmetrical core balls come with pin location, CG and mass bias. Your 3 piece cores, well, it doesn't even matter.
As long as you know the RG, the Differential, and the coverstock nature (pearlised/solid, reactive/particle, aggressive/control) with the pin/CG/mb you can already formulate a reaction you desire on a particular lane. Or combat a particular lane condition.
Now. Your Tour Power is a super quick revving ball with a solid aggressive coverstock. Although the differential is relatively low, it still equates to quick revving and early rolling (oil please). Now we look at your drilling pattern and release (I think we've got a rough idea) and the lanes you are playing on.
Now, from there you can analyse what problem you are having. Physically wise, we can't really help. Heh. But ball wise, we will definitely help you see.
Let me help you start...
You're convinced you need a higher RG ball because.....?
p/s (1): sorry mage, we're really going off thread here!
p/s (2): argh! I double posted! Could a mod help me delete my previous post? -
...because I currently own a low RG ball (on top of the blue dot). Figured a high RG ball would better suit the drier conditions and not suffer a loss of impact, to complement my equipment. But, that's when I have $$$$$ and more $$$$$. (why dun they have a money face smiley???)
There was once when I bowl at Classic, the ends were very dry and the fronts...I would say very light oil. You can just make out the ball track after the first throw. My blue dot can hook into the pocket when i stand at 10 aiming at 1st arrow. My 1st ball, well I stand at 40 something aiming at 4th arrow to get it into the pocket. In order to maintain a sharp entry angle, I push the ball as far as I could allowing the ball to snap into the pocket. Problem is, couldnt control the revs and the push effectively. A good length down will result in a weak turn towards 1-3, whereas a strong revs result in a nearer brkpt, a 1-2 hit. hmmm...if i'm just able to control the lift and length....*sigh* -
Airgrinder
I've seen you bowl in the last , and I think you need to speed up your shots anyway. Even if you are planning on expanding your arsenal, increase your ballspeed. Today's equipment dictates the way we have to bowl. Even the pros have to change their styles to play today's gear. Basically today's balls rewards smoothness at the line and higher speed and a "push" (outward) instead of a "lift" (upward).
Prata is correct - do not think too much about the numbers. They are there to help those who can read them. One can still be a great bowler while not being able to understand any of them.
In any case, here is how RG diff. works. Imagine two open doors you are going to slam shut. One door has an edge that is 30cm from the hinge, the other is long, measuring 1m from edge to hinge. The longer distance would mean that door gets slammed with more force, right? That is the RG diff.
The edge of the door is one end of the weightblock in the core (either top or bottom) and the hinge is the other end. The greater this difference, the harder the core will rotate. Do you follow?
So when the core rotates, the ball flares. Thus a ball with a big RG diff. will flare more than one with a small RG diff. Understand?
Now, this is RG: Assume there are two cellphones in front of you. Both are the same size as a Nokia 8210, ok? Now imagine you have to spin them on the spot on their backs. I know some people do this, hopefully you are one of them. One of the phones has it's weight in the centre so it spins very easily and quickly, yah?? But the other has its weight distributed very oddly, with it heavier at the top than in the centre. This makes it spin very slowly, even though you spun them with the same force. This is RG determining how easily a ball is to turn, can you see it? -
thanx for the effort...but my one 8250..... -
gosh