Lane Conditions
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Hi all, I know it is tough answering a question regarding how to play on specific lane conditions, but any tips
I am sure this type of question had been asked time and time again. I search through the previously msgs but didn't think any was relavant. Hope nobody minds. How do U normally bowl if you met with this condition
The condition:
Long oil (heavy), with very wet backend. I did a stroker style on this one, standing at 15 aiming at 2nd arrow. Ball hits 3-6 pocket. Shifted my feet right till the release to arrow is in a straight line to the pocket. Ball enters pocket, but couldn't carry. Leaves pin 9 or and occasional pin 10, sometimes even pin 5! Tried slowing down ball spd, till hooks decently, but there is no power when it enters the pins. Leaves unspeakable splits
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Some other bowlers I saw did a straight line to the pocket, release at 17 to target 17 with high revs. I would say they had a low strike percentage
(low as in below 3, medium 4-5, high as in above 6).
Gonna to combat this condition again on thursday. (the condition at the centre is always this way)
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Airgrinder:
3 pieces of advice I can offer to you. Not all are feasible, but hey.
1) First up, slow your speed down. With such a heavy and long oil condition, slowing it down allows it the time to roll up, vital for good carry. Probably your ball is still slipping and sliding when it connects with the pins.
2) Eliminate your loft. Bend lower or something. Your ball will react slightly later because of your loft.
3) Aim closer on the lane. I'm not sure where you aim, be it the arrows, or an area on 45 feet or what have you. But just aim closer! This method has been proven to make your ball react early, just by aiming closer to yourself on the lane... unless you're WXman. That's already too close.
4) Drill a ball axis leverage for this center. CG on PAP, and pin 3 3/8 inches away from your PAP. (Your pro shop driller should be able to tell you where your PAP is by looking at your ball track)
Hope it helps, dude. Damn. That was 4 pieces, not 3! -
Want my advice
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Wei Xiang, toking about yaOriginally posted by prataman:3) Aim closer on the lane. I'm not sure where you aim, be it the arrows, or an area on 45 feet or what have you. But just aim closer! This method has been proven to make your ball react early, just by aiming closer to yourself on the lane... unless you're WXman. That's already too close.
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Straight, strong, fast, loud. The end.Originally posted by Ding:Want my advice -
prata
I thought leverage was pin and CG both 3 3/8 from the PAP. Don't remember anything with the CG on the PAP. Anyway, CG placement isn't really effective with dynamic weight, only static.
airgrinder
You have good stuff from prata to work on, i'm just adding some more.
1) Less axis rotation and tilt. spin the ball less and roll it more. roll like deamon - his shot is good in oil for sure. on your gurad, adjust the tilt to angle less 'downwards' when pointing your thumb to the ceiling.
2) coverstock surface. sand your cover to tackle the conditions. start with a 600 grid, its a good place to start.
3) if you do use leverage gear, stick to a down-and-in line. Swinging such gear makes them succeptible to over/under reactions.
Bottomline: your ball isn't getting enough grip to transfer energy to turn the corner, or to carry in the pocket. This is what you have to address. -
Harmy:
3 basic sorts of leverage.
In all cases, the pin is 3 3/8 inches from the PAP. The CG placement determines what type leverage you get.
The one you refer to is known as "Stacked Leverage". Drilling the CG closer to the palm is a "Label Leverage", and having the CG on the PAP is an "Axis Leverage". -
Prata, tell me about these tonight
Wish to learn more... got bowling ball for demo too
See ya!! -
WAH! I CANT BELIEVE IT! IT HAPPENED TO ME! I SPENT AN ENTIRE HOUR EDITING MY REPLY AND IT WAS ERASED IN 5 SECONDS!!!!!
btw, why isn't there an "angry" icon! da*n Pi*s!!! -
U should have used back arrow then copy & paste......... tata
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To the gurus,
prata,
Your point about using a closer aiming jolts my memory. I distinctly remembered watching a VCD on something like that. Didn't successfully tried it cause, at that time, my everything is not consistant. Will try again.
harmzuay,
Thought the change in direction or the ability to hook more greatly depends on the axis rotation and tilt, but like u said, the bottomline is the ball is not able to grip the lane enough, no friction, tends to slip away. Will increase roll, forsee that the ball will be flat, i.e. less axis rotation.
I remember seeing the drilling describe by Mr Prata before. It's like label, with the pin approx. beside the ring finger, but the CG is way out to the right. Unless I'm wrong, it's not that uncommon. Btw, I'm not using the guard anymore.
And that, raise another question:
1. Spinners score well on these lanes. Why didn't their ball slip away as well?
2. Both Harmzuay and Ian bowl such enomous hook. Is it due to the higher roll action? Is that to say that larger angle of axis rotation, less axis tilt are more for the "skip, snap" type bowling?
rdgs/thanx
Ding, luckily i had not close the browser in my fit of anger before I saw your reply. I was able to back back back all the way to copy and paste. The wonders of technology... -
cheers
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Pratam
n
That's it... i was sitting on the fence about my reply beause i knew in the back of my mind i wasn't quite right. Thanks for setting things straight
. I've not heard much about axis leverage, though. Care to explain? wouldn't the reaction be flatter? I'm trying to extropolate the ball reaction in my head, but it doesn't come out right.
Airgrinder
*pat on the back*
I've personally been through that message erased hell. I hate it too. Many of my more detailed replies have been lost because my brain cannot make two exact duplicates. In fact, my earlier post in this thread suffered from that too. sad fact...
on a brighter note
1) yes, playing with more roll in the release makes for a generally flatter ballpath because there isn't a sudden burst of energy as when the ball comes out of a spin; but it all depends on the lane conditions.
on oil, the 'roll' will hook more than a typical release which has elements of both roll and spin. Friction determines this. On regular house (blocked) conditions, a rolling release will cause the shot to burn out very quickly because there wouldn't be enough oil midlane to delay the release of energy - resulting in a roll-out after the turn or a weak impact (ringing/flat 10s for righties and 7s for the southpaws).
2) despite what some spinners like to whine about, i believe that spinners do perform better in oil. For one, spinners rely on ball deflection a lot because there is less inherent energy in a spinner release than that of a hook - that's why spinners require pin action to strike while heavy balls can carry all 10 pins.
So a lane with oil will lessen friction and allow less energy loss from contact with the lane than a dry lane would. This would be important to spinners with high ballspeeds because their ball has to carry the pin 5.
Spinners with lower ballspeed usually thrive on a low pocket of the opposite side because their shot backs up a little. The 1 pin will take out the 2, 4 7; 3 will hit the 5 and 8; and ball will take 6 and 10. The 9 pin will be taken out by the 6.
But high ballspeed spinners hit high pockets so their ball will not deflect as much or they'll leave a 5 standing.
Therefore, it depends on what type of spinner they are, and generally, the level of friction available doesn't affect spinners too much unless they are relying on the back-up action in their shot to take out the pin 5 (only slow spinners).
3) One can play a wide hook several ways. As usual, each has a condition that will and will not allow it to work. So, let's just assume that when i speak of one type of shot, the conditions favour it.
when there is a lot of roll (very little axis tilt) on the ball, the cover bites the lanes very hard almost from the start. on a lane that has enough oil, this would mean that while other balls cannot hook, such a shot can grip, turn and devastate the deck with sufficient angle when most regular shots cannot even get enough angle to carry the full deck. this can be done even if the axis rotation is very small, say 20 degrees. I'd say perfect examples of such bowlers are chris barnes and michelle feldman.
or
a release that has larger axis rotation, like 45 or even 90 degrees, but little axis tilt could bite moderately through the midlane to provide a predictable reaction, whilst only turning when it runs out of lateral momentum could cover many boards. Its like a car tyre spinning at an angle - the moment the car runs out of momentum sideways - the car would violently surge in the direction the tyres are facing. Bowlers who use this sort of release include tim mack and robert smith. As you can probably tell, to pull this off you need tremendous ballspeed to avoid burnout and sent a ball so far out while countering the forward momentum its grip is giving.
or
there is a release that imparts a lot of axis tilt (spin) to create area on the lane. Such a release is invented in the urethane-era because it was THE ONLY way to hook balls then (right, prata? ). The ball would skid down the lane until it run out of tilt - usually aided by the weight block - and started to roll. Because no energy is used in a spin, the sudden release of energy during the roll creates a very sudden change in direction and can cover boards. Parker bohn III anyone?
These 3 are only the more definitive ones - every other release is a combination of some or all of these three. So in a way, you are right in observing that tilt and rotation affect the 'look' of the hook. Just remember: each shot can only work on certain given lane conditions.
p.s. My hook's no longer big! apple (aka bubbles), Titan, jae all play more area than i do now. ANd you forgot about prataman. -
Originally posted by harmzuay:
That sounds like my release for a long period of time. Although I've been trying to correct the huge amount of spin. Trying to get the best of both worlds, but not doing fine just yet.
there is a release that imparts a lot of axis tilt (spin) to create area on the lane. Such a release is invented in the urethane-era because it was [b]THE ONLY way to hook balls then (right, prata? ).
p.s. My hook's no longer big! apple (aka bubbles), Titan, jae all play more area than i do now. ANd you forgot about prataman. [/b]
Any my hook's not very big any more either. You can ask WX and Dingster, my ball refused to turn many boards last night. I left about 8-9 washouts over the 3 games. No kidding. -
what sia. check out the long list of suggestions
Sounds like it's the conditions of Vision Lanes. -
it probably is - he did mention that he does his gear at Visions.
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eh....not really. Never bowl at Vision lanes before. Dun remember saying anything abt doing anything at Vision lanes. I do my gear at Classic. The lane conditions I talk abt is at Bt panjang superbowl.Originally posted by harmzuay:it probably is - he did mention that he does his gear at Visions. -
haha!
sorry, airgrinder! I got this thread confused with the AhDan newbie one. -
airgrinder, i stay like 5 minutes away from bukit panjang bowl.
Used to bowl there regularly, but stopped after victor's came up with their $1.50 rates. -
Chuan, when is your next trip down to Victors
I would be able to join in if it is during my extended lunch break of 11.15-2.30pm
cheers -
Ding
We're going tomorrow (Fri, 26/7) late morning. Feel free to join us. -
Hey man, thanks for the invite
I should be able to reach Vics around 11.15-11.30am. See ya fellas
It has been awhile since I bowled there -
victor's at marina right? hmmm...that's really far. No direct buses.Originally posted by chuanish:airgrinder, i stay like 5 minutes away from bukit panjang bowl.
Used to bowl there regularly, but stopped after victor's came up with their $1.50 rates. -
Yup
It's Victors Bowl at Marina South alright
U free -
erm just to point out some stuff...
big hook bowlers are very susceptible to lane conditions so ball drilling/surface is important.
if u notice unless there is heavy oil my ball kinda rolls dead into the pocket and i am unable to get the kind of reaction most skid snap bowlers achieve.
in heavy oil, its not about rolling the ball. its about achieving higher track so that the ball track covers more surface area thus being able to grip better. in dryer conditions vice versa as lesser surface area covered by ballt rack= longer skid. a total side rotation can still achieve a high tracker but it skids abit longer b4 breaking hard. very hard. the best *quote* is to have a 45 degree rotation bcoz that achieves more hook, abielt more gradual, and good carry.
another way to combat oily/ patchy lanes is to use a heavier ball. that naturally slows down ur speed, increases pin carry due to weight and u will not have to artificial element to ur throw when trying to slow it down.
last note. my ball track is an inverted track. ie: track away from fingers, nearer to thumb. or on oily conditions, near parallel to fingers and thumb but still inverted. dunnoe wat that means. Cathay coaches say thats bad on the overall, Thomas Fox says its the best track there is. Conclusion, dun learn from me, i am screwed.