Can an atheist be an artist?
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Can an atheist be an artist?
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 7, 2010 AT 10:16AMhttp://cerebellumblues.squarespace.com/blog/2010/4/7/can-an-atheist-be-an-artist.html
I’m an atheist, I admit it. I used to say I was an agnostic, but as I’ve gotten older and read more and thought more about religion, I’ve decided that every one is humankind’s creation. I’m cool with my beliefs, but I wonder if society really is, especially among those who, like myself, think of themselves as artists.My uncertainty stems from the countless interviews I have read with songwriters, most of whom claim that their songs do not come from within, but rather from without, either as gifts of god or as creations of a force greater than humankind, creations that can only be gathered by those who pay attention. I disagree with these conceits, and let me tell you why:
First, I think art is the most human of achievements, and to give some deity credit for it devalues people.
Second, claiming that some god wrote your song is not the height of humility, it’s the height of arrogance. After all, you’re basically saying that of all the people on earth, the god you believe in chose to give you a particular song. Wow, you must think you’re pretty special.
Three, claiming that all songs are all out there, floating around in the universe, set free by some Prime Mover, and you just happen to hear them first, is not only pretty damn arrogant, it’s also utterly preposterous. In addition, it devalues all the thought you have given to your music. I mean, why bother, right? Just sit down, tune in, and wait for a song to drop out of the ether.
Last, and least, all these great songwriters proclaiming how their works are divine makes me sound like a total ass when I talk about how I think my songs come from me, thank you very much!
And that’s my point: because of the way artists talk about how they create, namely, some deity does it for them, a perception has been created that true artists are somehow closer to god than the rest of us. Well, for the record, I do think I am an artist and do not think there is a god of any kind.
Stepping off my podium…
Reader Comments (20)
This post (with which I couldn't agree more) reminds me of one of my all-time pet peeves:
Being the sports geek that I am, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me when professional athlete X, under the guise of humility, credits their performance and/or victory of the day to God's will. What, God didn't want the *other* team -ostensibly made of his/her children as well- to win? Plays favorites? Maybe God bets on NFL games in Vegas? Sheesh.....
April 7, 2010 |
cvDave and Cory, thank you for the comments. Now I'm hoping someone with faith weighs in!
April 7, 2010 |jeffshattuckDave--I don't so much believe that God "tests" us--I believe He supplies us with free will to make choices--- then we must accept the consequences. Whatever one decides about believing/not believing is one of these choices. Jeff--you may have begun quite an interesting dialogue here. I'm interested to see who else weighs in!
April 7, 2010 |MillicentMillicent - I totally see the distinction you draw. BUT - all those things we are choosing between with our free will, good and evil, right and wrong, priesthood and pedophilia, weren't they all created by the creator? And if so, why? Why introduce evil just to find out who is good? I believe the potential for good and evil exists in all of us. But the choices we make are our own.
I am fascinated by old "religions" - Greek, Roman, Pagan, Buddhism - all of which use icons (often described as gods) to represent facets of nature. But in none of them do they claim one deity created the universe. They are more ways of understanding the forces of nature - and therefore the forces of the universe - without taking credit for it. The native american culture I am now surrounded by in Santa Fe works in basically the same way.
I took great delight in one of my best friends - a man of "faith" - saying that I may be an atheist but I was one of the most "spiritual" people he'd ever met. I admire him for making that distinction. I wish more people would.
April 7, 2010 |Dave TutinDave--There is certainly evil in this world--no one can deny that. I do not believe that evil is of God or provided by Him. I believe it is of man & the choices he makes. As for being spiritual, I think that is the true essence of one's "religion" or "non-religion."
April 8, 2010 |MillicentI don't believe supernatural forces/gods affect what we or our instruments can detect in any objective way, and there has been much effort trying. Therefor you yourself create your music somehow someway and we love hearing about the process and listening to the results. The same is true for other artists even though many of them think they are just a magical privileged puppet God is playing with.
Dave-Why does your best friend, man of faith, experience you as a most spiritual person? Or, what insight of his leads him to this conclusion?
April 9, 2010 |Harold SMillicent, to say that only man is responsible for evil, but also does good, means that only man is capable of Everything, while God only does good. In other words, God is only half of man.
More important, I don't buy the notion of good and evil. They are simply too subjective. Was the church doing good as it subjected heretics to starving rats and fire? Does it do good my denying condoms to Africa? Does it do good by promoting stories as irrefutable fact when all evidence indicates that most of these stories are fiction (not the lessons, the stories).
Anyway, that's what I think, which, of course, means I'm an evil heretic set to burn in hell for all eternity. I'll take my chances.
April 9, 2010 |
Jeff ShattuckNo you're not & you won't. It seems to me, though, that the examples you gave are choices/decisions made by man resulting in either positive or negative consequences----either good or evil. Thus, free will.
April 9, 2010 |MillicentGreat post, Jeff. I too find it bemusing when artists claim divine inspiration. You're right, in a way it's incredibly conceited to declare yourself reciever of a god's gifts.
On the other hand, to believe in an omnipotent god is to believe that god is responsible for everything. This is where Millicent's argument about free will falls down. Yes, your god may have allowed humans to commit evil as a matter of free will, but he is all powerful. So concievably he may not decide to make that evil happen, but he could stop that evil happening and chooses not to. Inaction in the face of evil is immoral.
MIllicent is arguing that her god is cruel, happy to let people suffer all because of some 'divine plan' the details of which he's going to keep to himself. Either god is omnipotent and cruel, or limited and good.
April 10, 2010 |Tom SlatterTom, You sooo missed my point, but I have put in my 2 cents worth & will leave this dialogue to you guys. I wrote about what I believe & do not profess to know what God does or does not allow. Carry on...
April 10, 2010 |MillicentTom,
I see your point and I agree with it, but here's the thing about faith, I've decided: it just can't be argued rationally. Religion can't stand up to scrutiny and maybe it's not supposed to. I dunno, for me, there is no single religion I can get behind, but I confess, there is some faith in my make-up. Or maybe a better word is optimism...
Jeff
April 10, 2010 |Jeff ShattuckHarold - a very good question.
I am not a man of faith but I do believe in what I call spirituality.
My inadequate explanation - and what I think my friend saw in me - is a willingness to believe that there are powers and forces in the universe that we do not understand. I might even suggest that the invention of god by man is an attempt to explain these same forces.
Many people believe that dogs see things we don't. Many people believe that children's imaginary friends are not imaginary - they just cannot be seen by adults.
Many people believe we have telepathic powers that we suppress as we age in order to deal with the basic realities of life. I think I agree with this.
I believe that the life force people leave behind after death can still guide us and influence us.
But I do not believe in god. I think these amazing things are all facets of nature and science that we simply haven't figured out yet.
April 10, 2010 |Dave TutinMillicent - no, I didn't misunderstand you, I merely took your argument to its logical conclusion. If god is omnipotent, and evil exists, god is evil, whether through action or inaction. If evil is 'of man', Yahweh not doing anything about it is still evil.
I know what you mean though Jeff, religion isn't something that responds to reason. If it did, our religions would be very very different beasts and unreasonable points of view wouldn't be put forward.
However, supernatural aside I absolutely think there is a spiritual aspect to our lives - that's what we access when we listen to music or enjoy other great pieces of art - or meditate or engage in otehr spiritual activities. I'm sure there are rational explanations for them, and I'm sure there isn't a supernatural aspect to it. Like Dave, I think we're talking about aspects of the natural world, but that doesn't diminish them at all.
April 11, 2010 |TomDave-Thank you for your careful thoughtful answer. Your friend's view that you are a spiritual person makes sense and, I might add, is rational. One last question-what is your definition of the god you don't believe in/exists?
April 11, 2010 |Harold SHarold - being raised in a Christian country (albeit Church of England) I refer to the Christian god.
I do not accept at all the concept of a supreme deity who created the universe. And who guides or influences or rewards our behavior in any way.
I am drawn much more to the cultures which have multiple gods, as I said, like the Navajo and the ancient Greeks. To me, these 'gods' are symbols for facets of nature which makes perfect sense.
I can understand a farmer worshipping the sun and the rain. Why wouldn't he?
I am also drawn to Buddhism (my wife was raised Buddhist but is non-practicing) simply because it teaches a way of thinking rather than belief in a deity. The Buddha achieved Nirvana in this life. He didn't have to die to go to heaven.
When you take the belief that we go to a better place after death to its extremes you end up with 9/11 terrorists! Why worry about your conduct on earth? Even if evil is man's creation as Millicent believes, aren't we taught that the christian god is a forgiving god and that you'll probably get into heaven with a simple "I'm sorry"? I find far more people of faith believe in heaven than believe in hell. Which adds another level of doubt in my mind. And I have always deeply distrusted deathbed conversions for the same reason. Live your life like a reprobate, convert when close to death and all is forgiven. Yeah right!
Incidentally, I have taken a lot of criticism for putting my lack of faith into words in a song I wrote when my father died. I guess that combination was more than some people could tolerate:
"God has never spoken
to you or me, I know
And if he did, well, all he said was
Time for you to go "April 11, 2010 |Dave TutinNice post. I'm an atheist and I agree with most of this. On the other hand, I do understand to some extent why some artists feel their work came from them.
April 12, 2010 |cinderkeysI'm an atheist, and I don't admit it, I declare it, and I'm proud!
To become an atheist, you really have to think deeply about truth, delusion, wishful thinking, fear, and how belief in a supernatural being with special powers requires rejection of reason and rational thought - which Christians call Faith. Not faith in mankind, or others, but Faith in a supernatural all powerful being and what 'he' is alleged to be able to do.
However, to be a Christian (say), you only have to accept what others tell you, and be afraid of living your life with a personal ethical structure that you yourself believe is right, not one that is imposed on you by others.It also allows you to abdicate from taking personal responsibility for what you do, if you want to.
If you believe, or are told to believe, that atheists believe in nothing you are wrong.
If you believe that without following the Rules of a religion people will lead a depraved and debauched life of sin, you are wrong. Anyone can lead a depraved life of ‘sin’ if they choose to, whether they are Christian, Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu or atheist. Many do, including Christians.
If you do what's right only because a book, a church, or a preacher tells you that you have to, or else you will be damned, you still have a child's morality of only behaving well so you don't get punished.
I try to behave ethically and do what's right because of who I am, not out of fear of retribution.
I believe I’m qualified to try to write songs if I want to.
August 21, 2010 |carolCarol, love your comment. Always nice to see unabashed atheists flying their freak flag! I'm with you all the way.
August 22, 2010 |Jeff Shattuck
"Atheism is a non-prophet organization." - George Carlin
The question I always ask believers - and never get a satisfactory answer - is "If god made everything and controls everything, then he also invented atheism and made some of us not believe in him. Why would he do that?"
The usual response is the same one you get when you ask why god allows atrocities and evil to exist - that he's "testing us." But that's not an answer, it's another cop-out.
Not knowing where ideas and inspiration come from is absolutely not the same as them coming from god. But then believers tend to dump pretty much everything we cannot explain at god's door.