chew chow meng:supertitious guy
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
well, from I am reading from the papers, Chor Meng is certainly NOT being superstitious. I think he has already said that he will let God do what He sees fit.the internet forum IS a place where people are more critical and straightforward about their views...
so my view of you is that you constantly run down anyone who claims that they have found God - which of course you are free to express....
... but please refrain from putting labels on another person even though this other person's philosophy is not your cup of tea.
Run down is too harsh lah.
I am just stating my opinions about chew meng and stating my argument.
surely in a civilised world, you all can counter my argument and i will argue back. you mean even in internet forum, i cannot say that chew chow meng is superstitious. What kind of freedom is that. Morever, i got explain abit why i think he is superstitious, in a well presented manner too. Not as if i am cursing and laughing at him.
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Originally posted by zaxis:
he should not be saying negative of another reliegion @ another religion place
what he did is not correct.
or not his fault is media fault
media usually blow up stories
In the report, he claimed that he visited chinese mediums to solve his health or wealth problems. i forgot which one liao. I think is his back problems.If you are religious person, you cannot say what he did was wrong because his faith at that time is believing in what people recommend that this chinese mediums can do. That is the problem with faith.
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Imagine he has cancer, and instead of seeking medical treatment, one go and visit these miracle healers. Then the cancer spread, then its too late. Get the point?
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Our health industry problem in singapore plus world also is in billions amount. If miracle healers can cure all, then do you think our health care industry need to cost so much money with all the treatment of cancer, diabetes, heart problems, mental problems and diseases.
I hope singaporeans can really wake up their idea. I think chew meng was good in a sense in that he went public with his illness so that it can allow public to learn about the illness.
I am not criticising him wholesale. Just the certain aspects.
For one, he is said to have took part in chartiable events. Hence, he is a caring people to poor people.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
I don't know what you are talking about? How is the challenge contradictory?
Atheism = a disbelief in the existence of deity (from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism)
How is it contradictory?
So If I were to follow what you have said by signing a pact with satan, this will also means that part of me are hesitating in denying the existent of satan. If I were to deny the existent of satan, I wouldn't even think about signing a pact with it anyway.
Just like if an item is inedible, would you even try to put it in your mouth? You wouldn't, would you?
If you did, that will means that part of you are hesitating in denying the fact that the item is edible, which also means that part of you are recognising the fact that the item might be edible.
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True, January might be taunting atheism as superior, but aren't you doing the same thing?
Hello furb, just a correction i felt i need to make.
Atheism is not something i see as superior. Atheism is just a reasoned conclusion. No ghost and no god is because claims for their existence were scattered, anedotcal and illogical. Atheism is not a religion.
religious people like to twist our reasoning when they lump our argument like saying atheism is just another religion. or argument saying that you cannot convince others change their beliefs.
I attempt to convince others because religious beliefs have negative consequences. Its as simple as that.
I recently read about the middle ages where religions rule human and human have very little free will. we are here today with so much power because the we broke free from the shackles of religion, which was known as the Renassiance.
If not for the brave forefathers who started the movement of reasons, i would not be here with todays resources. I must continue to educate the public here.
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Originally posted by january:
Our health industry problem in singapore plus world also is in billions amount. If miracle healers can cure all, then do you think our health care industry need to cost so much money with all the treatment of cancer, diabetes, heart problems, mental problems and diseases.
I hope singaporeans can really wake up their idea. I think chew meng was good in a sense in that he went public with his illness so that it can allow public to learn about the illness.
I am not criticising him wholesale. Just the certain aspects.
For one, he is said to have took part in chartiable events. Hence, he is a caring people to poor people.
yes, but our medical health industries is not doing it parts
just by making sick people more sick, earn those sick people money,
e.g. recently, one friend uncle attended NUH, dynos kidney failure/weak prepare to undergo kidney dalysis, since it is from NUH, therefore bring him along during one of my physio session.
my chinese physio, assisted him, explain the reason of his possible kidney failure is due to the "x" reason, he treated him, and advise him to return back to NUH to further medical review,
surprise, he is not require to underdo kidney dialysis any more, his kidney is working normally.
yes, NUH dianos his kidney is not working normal condition, but NUH did not treat the root cause of the problem, just refer him to undergo kidney dialysis, just to safe his life.
but now, need not undergo weekly few time kidney dialysis, he is more happy man
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January, there is freedom of speech on the internet, but when you come online solely to rant about your so-called atheist beliefs and take a swipe at the beliefs of others, you're asking for it. Your original post reads not as a comment on Chew Chow Meng's current plight but more as an outlet for your pent-up frustrations against the very existence of religions, which to you equates superstition.
By saying that religious people are immature you've already offended the vast majority of people living on this planet. Your very callous remarks make you the most immature person on this thread, possibly the entire internet.
Let's put things in perspective. There are thousands of things you believe in by pure blind faith. Faith in your science textbooks, faith in television, faith in wikipedia. Do you have absolute prove for anything you take as fact? Does the fact that the sun rises every day prove that it will do so tomorrow?
Please, think about it a moment, everything you believe in, you do so by pure faith, so please don't go around saying anyone is more superstitious than yourself.
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Originally posted by furb:
Atheism = a disbelief in the existence of deity (from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism)
How is it contradictory?
So If I were to follow what you have said by signing a pact with satan, this will also means that part of me are hesitating in denying the existent of satan. If I were to deny the existent of satan, I wouldn't even think about signing a pact with it anyway.
Just like if an item is inedible, would you even try to put it in your mouth? You wouldn't, would you?
If you did, that will means that part of you are hesitating in denying the fact that the item is edible, which also means that part of you are recognising the fact that the item might be edible.
You can talk all you want but I dare say you are just apprehensive to sign the pact. What if there's the devil? So, save your breath to try and reason like some intellectual. If you claim to be an atheist, you must show that you are really an atheist. Show the believers that there's no such thing as the devil.
Like I've said, convince the believers, prove them wrong. Afterall, if the devil does exists and you've signed the pact, only your life will change.
You are not an atheist. Try become an agnostic. It's more realistic.
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Originally posted by furb:
Atheism means a disbelief in the existence of deity only, not physics. I don't see what's wrong in learning the knowledge of physics.
Get this right, atheism deny the existence of deity, not physics. I don't give a damn which tom, dick or harry who believe in god created the theorums, after all the one who created the theorum is human, not god.
Unless you can prove that god came down from heaven and enlightened the one who created the theorum, which you can't anyway. Therefore, there is no relation between theorum and god, thus there is no such thing called 'harmony' between science and bible so stop trying to twist the facts.
For your info, science does not only include physics and not everyone learn physics.
True, January might be taunting atheism as superior, but aren't you doing the same thing? Look back at all your previous posts.
By the way, you call yourself a believer of christ when you are taunting others to sign a pact with satan when you know the consequences of it, shame on you. I say you are a satan yourself for doing that, not that I believe in one anyway. Since you are a believer of christ, I suggest you start pleading for forgiveness for your sin in tempting others to sign pact with satan.
You probably don't understand January's logic. It's not the definition. We all know what atheism means.
After spending some years studying physics, he concluded that there's no God.
There is a reason for every action. What makes you become an atheist? Follow January's footsteps without thinking through?
Am I a believer of Christ? I can become a born again Christian right this moment. I can also renounce Christianity right away. I know not what I'm doing...hehehehe...that's the beauty of Christianity.
The challenge to January to sign a pact with Satan is still valid, in fact, there's no deadline. You are also invited. Take your time. Think it through.
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Originally posted by january:
googlemuck is strange.
WHy must he insist me in signing what kind of pact with satan. I dun recall reading atheists have to sign what pact in order to become atheists. strange.
atheist are just people who dun believe in god and supernatural and they are believe in scientific way of inquiring knowledge. They dun like to jump to conclusion and claim knowledge too quickly.
Strange. To me there is no god, no devil. I dun believe in satan anyway. Satan , god , ghost can all come and find me to communicate. i would like to meet and learn things from them.
Every scientist has to do experiments to veirfy his theory. You can't expect people to believe you if you do not verify your theory with experiments and tests.
Why don't you try sign the pact? What's holding you back? I've already told you nothing will happen if the Devil does not exist.
You are scared !
You are a pseudo atheist
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people already have illness
and u refer his illness to religions
wtf
讲�没�过大脑
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There's no scientific basis in January's taunts and mockings. Forget about it.
Prayers can help the sick is a scientific fact:
Studies Find that
Prayer Can Help the SickVijai P. Sharma, Ph.D
A study on prayer fascinated me and I want to share it with you.
This study was conducted by Dr. Randolph Byrd, a heart specialist at the San Francisco General Hospital. This is how it went.
Dr. Byrd took four hundred patients who were admitted to the Hospital's Cardiac Intensive-Care Unit. He divided them in to two groups: one group received regular medical care of the hospital, called the "control group, "; the second group received not only regular medical care but also prayers, called the "prayer group."
To eliminate any selection bias, he let the computer randomly assign patients to one of the two groups. People who met to pray for the prayer group were given just the names of the patients and a very preliminary information on their medical condition. All patients, belonging to either of the groups, signed a consent form, informing them of the possibility that they might or might not get prayed for. So none of the patients knew whether he or she actually got prayed for and at the same time, every one stood an equal chance.
Needless to say that all patients, their friends and relatives were free to pray on their own if they wanted to. No suggestion was made about self initiated prayers one way or the other.
The point I am making is that these being such large groups, all chance factors would equal out to make a strict comparison between the prayer group and the control group. This enabled the researchers to objectively study the effect of the additional prayers that were organized by the hospital.
Furthermore, neither the staff, nor the patient knew who was being prayed for. This is really important in a scientific study because if the patients know or find out about such differences, then, arguably, they may improve or get worse due to the placebo effect.
For instance, the one who is prayed for, may get an additional psychological booster and the other who knows he is not being prayed, may feel deprived of something that may have a potential for improvement.
By the same token, it is important that the treatment staff not know which patient is participating in which group. Understandably, if a member of the treatment team knows about the composition of the groups, they may give certain patients preferential treatment, give them more attention, or pass" on, unintentionally, their hope and enthusiasm to the patient. All told, as concerns the standards of unbiased and objective study, it met all the requirements.
Now for the results of the study.
Dr. Byrd found that the prayed for group did much better than the group that was not prayed for. Several benefits were noted for the group that was prayed for, they were much less likely to develop congestive heart failure and pulmonary edema in which the lungs fill with fluid; they were five times less likely to require antibiotics; fewer needed to be put on ventilators and receive artificial respiration; fewer developed pneumonia or had cardiac arrests. All the benefits mentioned above were statistically significant.
Studies following respectable scientific standards have also been conducted comparing the effectiveness of the various types of prayer. One such study comes from the Spindrift Foundation in Salem, Oregon, which specializes in prayer studies.
For the purpose of this study, prayers are classified in two types; the "directed prayer" and the "undirected prayer." Let us see how they define the two types.
A directed prayer has a specific wish and a specific outcome in mind.
Nondirected prayer is just the consciousness of who is being prayed for. The prayer is simply for the best potential of the individual to manifest or the best outcome to happen for that person. So nondirected prayer is "thy will be done" type of prayer.
This study was also done on the germination of seeds. The seeds that were prayed for always germinated more than the seeds that were not prayed for, and the seeds that received nondirected prayers germinated more than the ones that received directed prayers.
Spindrift Foundation concluded that both types of prayers were beneficial, but the nondirected prayers were three to four times more effective.
My personal bias, which is not based on any scientific study, is that a prayer for changing oneself into a better person is more desirable than the prayers for some material benefits. I am aware that my bias may have been determined by the fact that I am a psychologist and I am in the business of personal change.
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sorry furb, i edited your earlier posting accidentally..
this is what i wrote
Hello furb, just a correction i felt i need to make.
Atheism is not something i see as superior. Atheism is just a reasoned conclusion. No ghost and no god is because claims for their existence were scattered, anedotcal and illogical. Atheism is not a religion.
religious people like to twist our reasoning when they lump our argument like saying atheism is just another religion. or argument saying that you cannot convince others change their beliefs.
I attempt to convince others because religious beliefs have negative consequences. Its as simple as that.
I recently read about the middle ages where religions rule human and human have very little free will. we are here today with so much power because the we broke free from the shackles of religion, and the period where our ancestors broke free from dogmatic era was known as the Renassiance.
If not for the brave forefathers who started the movement of reasons, i would not be here with todays resources. I must continue to educate the public here.
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hello googlemuck... as a mature and brave man, i shall tell you that writing what pact with satan will not bring harm to me. I will just write it here instead of signing what pact, with i dunno what ritual.
"hello, satan, i do not believe you exist, which is an illogical way of writing ( if i do not believe in his existence, why am i still helloing to him, haha ) .
If you really exist, satan, and you want to punish me for not believing in you, you can make me experience itchiness for 5 days. no less or more, just to make it more convincing for me, somemore it must be itching on my stomach area only, just to make it even more convincing. "
"If god want to join in also , your communcation is this.. you must make me feel painful in my bones for 4 days. no less no more.better still make it painful only at my third finger of my left hand."
ok? that is it. god bless...
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Originally posted by tarZen:
January, there is freedom of speech on the internet, but when you come online solely to rant about your so-called atheist beliefs and take a swipe at the beliefs of others, you're asking for it. Your original post reads not as a comment on Chew Chow Meng's current plight but more as an outlet for your pent-up frustrations against the very existence of religions, which to you equates superstition.
By saying that religious people are immature you've already offended the vast majority of people living on this planet. Your very callous remarks make you the most immature person on this thread, possibly the entire internet.
Let's put things in perspective. There are thousands of things you believe in by pure blind faith. Faith in your science textbooks, faith in television, faith in wikipedia. Do you have absolute prove for anything you take as fact? Does the fact that the sun rises every day prove that it will do so tomorrow?
Please, think about it a moment, everything you believe in, you do so by pure faith, so please don't go around saying anyone is more superstitious than yourself.
fine i will reply your thread and clear my intention. here it goes.Firstly, i not desperate about spreading atheism. To me it just a once in a while dabbling. Secondly, science is not hocus pocus, it is rigious and time consuming effort of the obervations and verificaiton of our realities. Therefore, dun link faith and science together. this is twisting and meshing the two words, science and faith together, and thus tainting our argument.
By the way, faith is the the following defintions, not exhaustive, which i picked from internet dictionary... so dun lump science with faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. Thirdly, i say chow meng was immature, not the whole world, because, because of the supersitious act he did last time when he tried those spiritual acts, which he himself said he was foolish. so, please dun malign me and twist my words. I feel just like those celebrities who is always trying to clarify with the media but only end up being distorted. Now i know how they feel like, except that my is a milder case, much milder one.
Lastly, your arugments , i have heard many times this kind of argument liao. Its quite poor and unconvincing and i believe it losing readers to your argument.
Finally, haha, I would like to educate people and clarify at the same time certain things about religious people. Religious people, some of them, do really are very nice people and do really great things for the society than most armchair atheists. I dun deny that. Of course, there are atheist who do good as well, just think bill gates and his gates melinda foundation.
What i am against really is that when these very loving good people do good things to the society and they happen to be a deovted religious people at the same time, they are creating a double edge sword effect.
On one hand, poor and unfortunate people get helped. On the other bad end, the belief in god also caused public to think that yah.. god is true because this great people are so caring to the world and they believe in god too.
As a results, the numble of believers increased. This is where the problem begins. In our reality, wrong beliefs, illogical beliefs will have negative effects. Therefore, even if they create help down here, they are also causing harm in this other area, which i know that they will not intentionally cause harm. i respect this people for their good intentions and the achievements they make in other aspects of their life, but i also want to educate them as well as readers to this particular error they make which is spreading to other people. Therefore, i am not attacking these people wholesale, i am only highlighting the certain aspects of their beliefs which is causing negative effects.
My point is this. as an atheist, i will tell you this, if you believe in god, you will not go to hell . neither will atheist try to beat you up for believing like that. Atheist will mostly do talking to you. most atheist dun even bother to change other people. Trust me, most atheist is not bothered about changing other people beliefs.
Personally, i dabble in atheism talk because its feels nice to hold a debate and because its feel right to argue what is right in the world.
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
people already have illness
and u refer his illness to religions
wtf
讲�没�过大脑
actually i wrote this post is because i feel dissapointed by chew chow meng after reading the chinese newspaper that he dabbled in so much superstition in the past, which i felt stemmed from his ignorance.I thought chew chow meng was a mature and clever person, and thus was aghast to find out about his supestitious nature last time. I am not really talking about his illness really.
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after some thinking, i admit i was rash in posting this thread. I guess my title was disrespectful considering his plight. Thus, i would like to apologise.
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Originally posted by january:
hello googlemuck... as a mature and brave man, i shall tell you that writing what pact with satan will not bring harm to me. I will just write it here instead of signing what pact, with i dunno what ritual.
"hello, satan, i do not believe you exist, which is an illogical way of writing ( if i do not believe in his existence, why am i still helloing to him, haha ) .
If you really exist, satan, and you want to punish me for not believing in you, you can make me experience itchiness for 5 days. no less or more, just to make it more convincing for me, somemore it must be itching on my stomach area only, just to make it even more convincing. "
"If god want to join in also , your communcation is this.. you must make me feel painful in my bones for 4 days. no less no more.better still make it painful only at my third finger of my left hand."
ok? that is it. god bless...
Janduary, without doing a test to prove your 'theory' that God or for that matter, Satan does not exist, nobody will take your words seriously.
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Prayers can help the sick. The article is written by a psychologist. Psychology is a branch of science, so is medicine. The man who did the study on 400 patients is a doctor.
Chew Chor Meng has placed the right bet in seeking solace in religion. With the support of fellow believers, he'll feel much better emotionally and there's a chance that he may be healed by faith. Religion at least gives him hope.
What can medical science offer him? There's no cure!
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Originally posted by january:
fine i will reply your thread and clear my intention. here it goes.Firstly, i not desperate about spreading atheism. To me it just a once in a while dabbling. Secondly, science is not hocus pocus, it is rigious and time consuming effort of the obervations and verificaiton of our realities. Therefore, dun link faith and science together. this is twisting and meshing the two words, science and faith together, and thus tainting our argument.
By the way, faith is the the following defintions, not exhaustive, which i picked from internet dictionary... so dun lump science with faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
Thirdly, i say chow meng was immature, not the whole world, because, because of the supersitious act he did last time when he tried those spiritual acts, which he himself said he was foolish. so, please dun malign me and twist my words. I feel just like those celebrities who is always trying to clarify with the media but only end up being distorted. Now i know how they feel like, except that my is a milder case, much milder one.
Lastly, your arugments , i have heard many times this kind of argument liao. Its quite poor and unconvincing and i believe it losing readers to your argument.
Finally, haha, I would like to educate people and clarify at the same time certain things about religious people. Religious people, some of them, do really are very nice people and do really great things for the society than most armchair atheists. I dun deny that. Of course, there are atheist who do good as well, just think bill gates and his gates melinda foundation.?!
What i am against really is that when these very loving good people do good things to the society and they happen to be a deovted religious people at the same time, they are creating a double edge sword effect.
On one hand, poor and unfortunate people get helped. On the other bad end, the belief in god also caused public to think that yah.. god is true because this great people are so caring to the world and they believe in god too.
As a results, the numble of believers increased. This is where the problem begins. In our reality, wrong beliefs, illogical beliefs will have negative effects. Therefore, even if they create help down here, they are also causing harm in this other area, which i know that they will not intentionally cause harm. i respect this people for their good intentions and the achievements they make in other aspects of their life, but i also want to educate them as well as readers to this particular error they make which is spreading to other people. Therefore, i am not attacking these people wholesale, i am only highlighting the certain aspects of their beliefs which is causing negative effects.
My point is this. as an atheist, i will tell you this, if you believe in god, you will not go to hell . neither will atheist try to beat you up for believing like that. Atheist will mostly do talking to you. most atheist dun even bother to change other people. Trust me, most atheist is not bothered about changing other people beliefs.
Personally, i dabble in atheism talk because its feels nice to hold a debate and because its feel right to argue what is right in the world.
Bill Gates is an atheist? Don't bluff ! He's an Agnostic.
Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost.
Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?
Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.
Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you'd say you don't know?
Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.
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Poor thing!
Remembered once i was quite rude to him by not smiling back to him..
He's stll wearing his "charming smile" to greet us in TCS.
Hope someone, somewhere, somebody saves him from his 'illness.'
Bless He
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http://www.asiaone.com/print/Just%2BWoman/News/Celebrities/Story/A1Story20080429-62388.html
this man recovered
nerve disorder Guillian-Barre Syndrome