either god is stupid or believers are stupid
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Originally posted by january:
thanks for your counter argument.. as a atheist myself... i pride myself as a man of reason. reason, has the characteristic of self correcting ability, unlike faith.
i think that this statement is rather contentious.in one general sweep you are saying that people with religious beliefs are NOT man of reason.
i too pride myself as a man of reason. my reasoning concludes that this world could not have happened with a supreme being. whether this supreme being is the Christian God, Nu Wa, one of the manifestation of the Hindu deity is not the issue here.
i had used this illustration once.....
get a big box, put inside it hundreds of LEGO bricks, shake it a million times (or more if you feel like it) see if you can come up with something you can make out, a car, a house, an animal etc. sure some bricks will click together, but will they form a model of a house.....
whatever happened in that stampede shows the stupidity of herds, it has nothing to do with God whatsoever.
and by the way, God is not obligated to get his believers out of trouble. We all need to bear the consequences of the choices we make.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
get a big box, put inside it hundreds of LEGO bricks, shake it a million times (or more if you feel like it) see if you can come up with something you can make out, a car, a house, an animal etc. sure some bricks will click together, but will they form a model of a house.....
whatever happened in that stampede shows the stupidity of herds, it has nothing to do with God whatsoever.
and by the way, God is not obligated to get his believers out of trouble. We all need to bear the consequences of the choices we make.
i will counter this argument. Your argument is errornous. Our house is built first by early cavemen and later modified and improved with new knowledge.
Nobody says universe and our things in modern life is a lego box with million of things at first and after shaking, these things pop out. As you can see , our the things in the universe has a history of how they have evolved.
You analogy is misleading and also unreasonable in comparing with universe.
secondly, if god is not obligated to save his believers, then that ,means that being a believer cannot ensure safety of oneself.
i will come up with this statment contradiction.
When people manage to survive an accident, they can attribute it to god and say that he saves them.
When people failed to survive, you then say the god is not obligated to save them. Isn't there some kind of favortism reasoning down here. god get credited if people survives but he is not responsible when people dies.
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can you accept a manager, or a parent who get credit for all the good things happening to the staff or child but when the child or the staff met with an accident, the parent or manager is not responsible because
"they are not obligated to save or protect them"
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no what.. they where will say god not obligated to save them..
is "time's up".
aiya.. when u chua sai that time.. u will oso "oh my god" one la..
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Originally posted by january:
i will counter this argument. Your argument is errornous. Our house is built first by early cavemen and later modified and improved with new knowledge.
Nobody says universe and our things in modern life is a lego box with million of things at first and after shaking, these things pop out. As you can see , our the things in the universe has a history of how they have evolved.
You analogy is misleading and also unreasonable in comparing with universe.
secondly, if god is not obligated to save his believers, then that ,means that being a believer cannot ensure safety of oneself.
i will come up with this statment contradiction.
When people manage to survive an accident, they can attribute it to god and say that he saves them.
When people failed to survive, you then say the god is not obligated to save them. Isn't there some kind of favortism reasoning down here. god get credited if people survives but he is not responsible when people dies.
your 2nd reasoning is flawed. Since when is it God's sole responsibility and obligation to ensure believers' safety? HOWEVER, what you do see in the bible is that,
Jeremiah 11:17, "The Lord of hosts, who planted you, has decreed disaster against you, because of the evil that the house of Israel and the house of Judah have done, provoking me to anger by making offerings to Baal.” (ESV)
God can choose to keep us from harm or not. Either way, it is just, because as echoed in :
Romans 9:20-21, "But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"
Either way, we know it remains in God's sovereignty, because
Romans 8:28 says, "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good"
I am of the view that God allowed all things to happen, but the question is not “Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people” but rather, “Why would a good God allow bad people to live?”. In fact, is there anyone "good" to begin with?
If you have read this far, including the bible verses, take a look at this.
Depending on which culture and country you come from, but when i was growing up, my parents warned me a lot about having a good behaviour, but i still chose to take a different route and did a lot of wrong things and put myself in harm's way. By my choice. By my wilful decisions. Can i still blame them?
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Originally posted by 24/7:
I am of the view that God allowed all things to happen, but the question is not “Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people” but rather, “Why would a good God allow bad people to live?”. In fact, is there anyone "good" to begin with?
If you have read this far, including the bible verses, take a look at this.
hi, i clicked onto the link...some funny statments found
"God uses even the most wicked and evil exploits of this world to bring about His glory and divine purposes. That is what is so awesome about God. Only He can take the most wicked, evil, and self-serving intentions and make good come out of them"
"
Rather, God created man in His image with the freedom to choose. With this freedom came the opportunity to rebel against Him. Man did rebel ( Genesis 3 ), and the rest is history. The annals of human history chronicle how God uses everything -- even the chaos of this world -- to bring about His glory and purposes. Those purposes include our growth in becoming more Christlike.
What's the point of Isaiah 45:7? God reveals His almighty and awesome character to us so we can relax with the confidence that comes from knowing, even in the most dark, desperate, and discouraging times in our lives, God is up to something good for us all the time."
This kind of reasoning can also be qualified to be called reasoning. wth.
If God exist, he must be suffering from hallucinations with the kind of logic he is implenmenting.
My questions to believers are this
"why do you all believe in what the books says"
"is the god of your this book the same god found in all other books?"
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Hi January
This kind of reasoning can also be qualified to be called reasoning. wth.
If God exist, he must be suffering from hallucinations with the kind of logic he is implenmenting.
Its rather funny that you belittle the reasoning but offer no rebuttal of it. Did u even cite an argument, or just cant think of a comeback?
This is the nature of God. That He works all things for the good of His people. This is His sovereignty. This is His divine right to do so. By definition, God doesn’t need anyone to validate His actions. Even if you think the notion of God is rubbish, let’s hope that God doesn’t return the compliments.
If God exists, and you criticize the way He does things, do you think you’ll do a better job than Him? So why aren’t you God yet?
If God doesn’t exist, and is the product of man’s imagination, then you haven’t lost a single thing. Whichever group of men created the notion of God, must not have been very practical to provide this reasoning which you would refute today. Life goes on and people will just keep having this debate. Some people are meant to believe, some are not.
Irregardless, whatever Jesus preached about was very counter-culture during His time and still is today. Talking about loving your enemies and not doing unto others what you wouldn’t want them to do unto u. Many people couldn’t accept what he taught but hey, he didn’t stop and neither will we Christians. -
Originally posted by 24/7:
Hi January
Its rather funny that you belittle the reasoning but offer no rebuttal of it. Did u even cite an argument, or just cant think of a comeback?
This is the nature of God. That He works all things for the good of His people. This is His sovereignty. This is His divine right to do so. By definition, God doesn’t need anyone to validate His actions. Even if you think the notion of God is rubbish, let’s hope that God doesn’t return the compliments.
If God exists, and you criticize the way He does things, do you think you’ll do a better job than Him? So why aren’t you God yet?
If God doesn’t exist, and is the product of man’s imagination, then you haven’t lost a single thing. Whichever group of men created the notion of God, must not have been very practical to provide this reasoning which you would refute today. Life goes on and people will just keep having this debate. Some people are meant to believe, some are not.
Irregardless, whatever Jesus preached about was very counter-culture during His time and still is today. Talking about loving your enemies and not doing unto others what you wouldn’t want them to do unto u. Many people couldn’t accept what he taught but hey, he didn’t stop and neither will we Christians.Be good unto ur neighbours... That is truly hard to follow, and people indeed cannnot accept it... But, hey, the guy who wrote this mus be an enlightened person... doesnt proves god's exsistence.
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A man of reason will give believers of a religion the benefit of the doubt.
How can you reason that God and spirits do not exist? Have you played with a Ouija board? People who have played with Ouija boards are convinced that they are communicating with spirits from another realm.
The scientific explanation ideomotor effect is unsatisfactory so not many people will believe it.
TS, try and use your proofs or reasoning to convince others that spirits do not exist.
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Originally posted by january:
i will counter this argument. Your argument is errornous. Our house is built first by early cavemen and later modified and improved with new knowledge.
Nobody says universe and our things in modern life is a lego box with million of things at first and after shaking, these things pop out. As you can see , our the things in the universe has a history of how they have evolved.
You analogy is misleading and also unreasonable in comparing with universe.
secondly, if god is not obligated to save his believers, then that ,means that being a believer cannot ensure safety of oneself.
i will come up with this statment contradiction.
When people manage to survive an accident, they can attribute it to god and say that he saves them.
When people failed to survive, you then say the god is not obligated to save them. Isn't there some kind of favortism reasoning down here. god get credited if people survives but he is not responsible when people dies.
You are thinking about life and death on earth.
Believers are thinking further ahead. They are thinkinfg of life in eternity.
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If God exist, well he is some form of supreme ruler am I right? And if that is so, he thinks that he is ALWAYS right. So, dead and life, he will grant... whenever he feels like it.
So, I should say, God isn't stupid(since he's always right), the believers arn't stupid either(well, their God is always right, so they have to be right). Either that or humans evolved to their disadvantage(too much imagination)
lol
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
You are thinking about life and death on earth.
Believers are thinking further ahead. They are thinkinfg of life in eternity.
What if its AIG?
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Lol, imagining AIG as an religion...
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Originally posted by whiskers:
What if its AIG?
Assurance In God ?