Originally posted by purpledragon84:very insightful, chibet, but am i right to say that nowhere in Islamic teachings mentioned anything abt the right to kill ur daughter if she is hanging out with another guy?
i dont think that is a religious thing, its more of a cultural thing
eg - in ancient china, young man/women are drown if they commit adultery or have sex before marrige. nothing to do with religion
but there are extremists out there who use religion as an excuse.. like terrorists for one.. right?
Originally posted by Gauze:There continues to be a great internal discussion on that. Personally, I think the reason for collecting and following these hearsay of narrations is because of the desire to be a carbon copy of the 7th century people in Hijaz, Arabia.
Studying is one thing, copying and pasting from a website that declares on its front page to save muslims through the blood of Jesus (by Christian Debater™ no less), is without the touch and counter response of a muslim expert and Ill have to try getting in touch with them before I can get back here.
We do not throw the baby out of the bathwater, saying Imam Shafi'i or whichever esteemed Imam is somehow wrong and should not be followed anymore. We also don't participate in takfir - declaring muslims non-muslims because they don't seem to be muslim enough, that is the weapon of the Kharijites and the extremists.
We only say Islam is more than a personality, more than the beaten track of some madhabs, more than a certain religious course of mind.
That unfortunately is a disservice to the Shias and muslim history and thought in general.
its true that i copied the info from a christian site but that means that this christian knows more about islam than so called practicing muslims.
by admitting that there is a great internal discussion/debate about this, it means that a certain portion of muslims believe that Mohammad have sex with 9 yo Aishah.
Instead of just using your own words to argue with me, use your own religious history to prove that what you say is right. In regards to Aishah case, i had used/copied verses from the Hadith, your own recorded religious history where majority of the muslims use it as a guide and accept it to be accurate
in saying that i had copied most of my info from a christian website, then you must have visited and read through the website. Use your Quran and Hadith to debunk what is written if it really is inaccurate and just christian propaganda but you cannot do that cos the quotes are really taken from the Hadith and i did not misinterpert it.
In the Hadith, it is recorded that Muhammad did infact have sex with 9 yo Aishah and the act was infact recorded by multiple people. Even Aishah made the same claim but just to be politically correct or ignorant, some Muslims refuse to acknowledge it.
Again with all this said, i am not making any statement that Muhammad did anything wrong. It is a fact that people do not live long in those time and it is culturally acceptable to be sexually active young in those time. Not only people of Islamic faith did those kind of things in that era. The Chinese/Anglo-saxons have the same practice.
Finally, this is an Atheism forum. what are you expecting?
Please believe me when i say that i am not anti-muslims. i just find it unacceptable that a muslim have made a choice to believe in the Islamic faith but only choose to acknowledge certain parts that are acceptable to him/her.
If it would make you feel any better, i also spend the same amount of time/effort in insulting the Jews/Catholics/Christians/Hindus/Buddhists
Originally posted by purpledragon84:but there are extremists out there who use religion as an excuse.. like terrorists for one.. right?
yes extremists and terrorists do use religion as an excuse to make war/ kill people of different religion but not to kill people of the same religion.
the case of the mother being gun down is really more of a cultural thing so i find that there is not much fun in discussing it - cannot insult religions
Originally posted by ChiBet:its true that i copied the info from a christian site but that means that this christian knows more about islam than so called practicing muslims.
by admitting that there is a great internal discussion/debate about this, it means that a certain portion of muslims believe that Mohammad have sex with 9 yo Aishah.
Instead of just using your own words to argue with me, use your own religious history to prove that what you say is right. In regards to Aishah case, i had used/copied versus from the Hadith, your own recorded religious history where majority of the muslims use it as a guide and accept it to be accurate
in saying that i had copied most of my info from a christian website, then you must have visited and read through the website. Use your Quran and Hadith to debunk what is written if it really is inaccurate and just christian propaganda but you cannot do that cos the quotes are really taken from the Hadith and i did not misinterpert it.
That Aisha and Muhammad sexed up when Aishah was 9 is already known. The intentions to press down on the hadiths, however, cannot be more different. One is to subvert, another is to probe the groundwork taken for granted to gain a little more certainty. There has been original research regarding Aishah's age ever since more than a decade ago, namely by Habibur Rahman Siddiqui, one of the sources of this controversy.
I've took to my higher muslim contacts :lol: , and yup, they've been confirming Aishah's original age, as you had pressed on rightly.