if we could understand God, would God then be God?
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Another common reason used by god believers.
Feel free to discuss on this reasoning. -
Apparently, the common use of this reasoning by god believers shows that it seems logical to them.
Here is my point.
If we could understand spiderman, would spiderman then be spiderman?
If we could understand hello kitty, would hello kitty then be hello kitty?
This statment is rather empty. -
sheesh!
take things in context!
if you do not, you insult your own intelligence
is Spiderman = the Riemann Hypothesis?
you would make it so -
could you then further elaborate what is the reasoning behind
"if we could understand GOD, would GOD then be GOD?"
If we could not understand God, then why is everyone proclaiming their versions of god as if they understand god? This is contradictory. -
i read before someone explanation of circular reasoning, which explains the flaw of god believers.
How do people know what is written in religious book are correct?
Because they are written by those that God has spoken to.
How do you know that God exist?
Because it is written in the book. -
For example, i hereby write a book now in this forum its called
(spidermanbible)
Oh my oh my, i shall love you with all my heart spiderman
I have connected with u yesterday as you finally reveal yourself to me
to spread the words of spiderman and
tell people that you are the ONE
There are indeed sufferings in the world
but that is because you the spiderman has reasons for them
however, in the end, spiderman will still give peace and
chocolate cake to everyone, so dun worry
You have earlier revealed yourself in the form of comic and spread on
to movies but that is just to spread your fame as a icon.
Today, you have decided time is ripe to reveal yourself as
the ONE.
Thanks for the good news my spiderman. This message in the forum
will be the origin of you. It is true because i have faith in you. You existed because the book's above paragraph says so. Those who does not believe in you is because they have not feel you yet. Anyway, if spiderman could be understood , it would not be spiderman.
all those scientist says that spiderman is a fictional character only, but there are so many dimensions that human has no idea of yet, how can they therefore say that spiderman is fictional. Infact, spiderman created to first superstring which the scientist has indeed discovered and thus proved that what this book says is true using his formidable web spinning skill from a touch of his finger, which contains all laws of physics and subsequent rules which it evolves.
Dun worry even you do not believe in spiderman because he will give everyone chocolate cake at the at of the day. [paragragh 1.1] -
Under extreme skeptism, nothing much can be absolutely proven.... Moreover, 'God' is still under a GREY area today.Originally posted by january:i read before someone explanation of circular reasoning, which explains the flaw of god believers.
How do people know what is written in religious book are correct?
Because they are written by those that God has spoken to.
How do you know that God exist?
Because it is written in the book.
It's like trying to tell people that fire is combustion and not god... Today, it's EASY.... Too many years ago, it would have been VERY DIFFICULT... No matter how WELL you know your FACTS... -
By the way... God would still be God no matter you understand or not.....Originally posted by january:could you then further elaborate what is the reasoning behind
"if we could understand GOD, would GOD then be GOD?"
If we could not understand God, then why is everyone proclaiming their versions of god as if they understand god? This is contradictory. -
why would god still be god no matter whether we understand or not.Originally posted by Devil1976:By the way... God would still be God no matter you understand or not.....
what is the meaning of this sentence that you have made?
Is it like saying. A chair is a chair? What is the significance of such statment? -
The reason why we say that is because we do not put ourselves at the level of God. To do so is foolish, because we cannot see things from His way. He is on a much higher level than us, in the way that fishes cannot comprehend what we are telling them.
And this part:why would god still be god no matter whether we understand or not.
This is an insult to your intelligence. Rhetorical questions get you nowhere. What he means is, even if you could or could not understand God, He still exists. Just like if I can't understand the theory of Relativity, it doesn't disappear or anything.
what is the meaning of this sentence that you have made?
Is it like saying. A chair is a chair? What is the significance of such statment? -
actually this question ' DO GOD EXIST ' came to my mind before. Someone gave me an ans but i m still having my doubt.. But my bottomline is, weather god exist or not, life still goes on. Is a matter on how u see things. If u believe there is 1 there will be 1, if u dont then there wont be any. Wads the point of arguing weather GOD exist when we dont even know do our own soul exist?
Juz my opinion.. -
Why is an atheist talking so much about god?
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If u are a believe, there will be god, if you are not a believe, there is no god.
Whether there is ultimately God anot, we'll never know, so why argue?
Its all in your own mind, no matter if God is real or not. -
Why should not i reason?Originally posted by ChingAlvin:If u are a believe, there will be god, if you are not a believe, there is no god.
Whether there is ultimately God anot, we'll never know, so why argue?
Its all in your own mind, no matter if God is real or not.
I just providing people reasons to digest. It is just a forum, i not scolding anyone in particular, and i am not angry with anyone. Just expressing my thoughts and reasons.
Isn't what forum is about, talking? You mean we cannot state our opinions and explanations in forum?
your statment are contradictory though. -
Our actions in life can be traced back to our belief and attitude. THerefore, whether you believe in whatever things and why you have those beliefs will affect your behavior. It is more connected than you are aware.Originally posted by oldbandit:actually this question ' DO GOD EXIST ' came to my mind before. Someone gave me an ans but i m still having my doubt.. But my bottomline is, weather god exist or not, life still goes on. Is a matter on how u see things. If u believe there is 1 there will be 1, if u dont then there wont be any. Wads the point of arguing weather GOD exist when we dont even know do our own soul exist?
Juz my opinion.. -
your analogy is fallacious. If we cannot see things his way, then why are people trying to understand god if you already say we cannot see things his way? Why are people talking about god and his teachings as if they understand god? These are contradictory statments.Originally posted by SturmDerSchatten:The reason why we say that is because we do not put ourselves at the level of God. To do so is foolish, because we cannot see things from His way. He is on a much higher level than us, in the way that fishes cannot comprehend what we are telling them.
. -
Further to January's last post, if you say that we cannot understand god, but god chose to reveal his truth to us, how do you know what that truth is?
If god is indeed perfect, he chose possibly the most imperfect way to let us know his will. He gave us holy books over which endless rivers of blood have been shed over differences in interpretation.
If the truth is obvious, why do you have to be taught what your holy book means? Why do you pick and choose lessons from your holy book? Why are there so many denominations, all of which claim to have the 'true' meaning of the holy book? -
We are trying to understand His teachings. But we can never fully understand them. Anyone who claims to comprehend God completely is most likely lying. There still is much debate about the Scriptures, and that probably goes to show that full understanding cannot be achieved.Originally posted by january:your analogy is fallacious. If we cannot see things his way, then why are people trying to understand god if you already say we cannot see things his way? Why are people talking about god and his teachings as if they understand god? These are contradictory statments. -
Now, the question "What is truth?" has been asked by the likes of many philosophers in antiquity and throughout history. Truth is relative, yet facts are absolute.Originally posted by Phaze:Further to January's last post, if you say that we cannot understand god, but god chose to reveal his truth to us, how do you know what that truth is?
If god is indeed perfect, he chose possibly the most imperfect way to let us know his will. He gave us holy books over which endless rivers of blood have been shed over differences in interpretation.
If the truth is obvious, why do you have to be taught what your holy book means? Why do you pick and choose lessons from your holy book? Why are there so many denominations, all of which claim to have the 'true' meaning of the holy book?
Blood has been shed over the Scriptures exactly because we are human. Humans have a self-serving bias when it comes to anything to do with belief. Atheists are not exempt, even if an "Atheist Revolution" has yet to occur. We divide ourselves because of the way we see things. -
I do agree that humans have a self-serving bias. However, if we are to attempt to overcome that self-serving bias, it seems that nothing could be more capricious that basing your beliefs on an ancient book.Originally posted by SturmDerSchatten:Now, the question "What is truth?" has been asked by the likes of many philosophers in antiquity and throughout history. Truth is relative, yet facts are absolute.
Blood has been shed over the Scriptures exactly because we are human. Humans have a self-serving bias when it comes to anything to do with belief. Atheists are not exempt, even if an "Atheist Revolution" has yet to occur. We divide ourselves because of the way we see things.
We may disagree on how we interpret science but as you said, facts are absolute. The scientific method is the best way to determine what those facts are.
Ancient writings were written by men. Men who are far more fallible than you and I because of their vastly more limited understanding. And while I concede our understanding is still limited, it far exceeds what was known in those ancient days. -
"I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid."
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"The word 'heresy' not only means no longer being wrong; it practically means being clear-headed and courageous. The word 'orthodoxy' not only no longer means being right; it practically means being wrong. All this can mean one thing, and one thing only. It means that people care less for whether they are philosophically right.
It is foolish, generally speaking, for a philosopher to set fire to another philosopher in Smithfield Market because they do not agree in their theory of the universe. That was done very frequently in the last decadence of the Middle Ages, and it failed altogether in its object. But there is one thing that is infinitely more absurd and unpractical than burning a man for his philosophy. This is the habit of saying that his philosophy does not matter, and this is done universally in the twentieth century, in the decadence of the great revolutionary period.
We will have no generalizations. Mr. Bernard Shaw has put the view in a perfect epigram: "The golden rule is that there is no golden rule." We are more and more to discuss details in art, politics, literature. A man's opinion on tramcars matters; his opinion on Botticelli matters; his opinion on all things does not matter. He may turn over and explore a million objects, but he must not find that strange object, the universe; for if he does he will have a religion, and be lost. Everything matters — except everything. " -
"When the old Liberals removed the gags from all the heresies, their idea was that religious and philosophical discoveries might thus be made. Their view was that cosmic truth was so important that every one ought to bear independent testimony. The modern idea is that cosmic truth is so unimportant that it cannot matter what any one says. The former freed inquiry as men loose a noble hound; the latter frees inquiry as men fling back into the sea a fish unfit for eating. Never has there been so little discussion about the nature of men as now, when, for the first time, any one can discuss it. The old restriction meant that only the orthodox were allowed to discuss religion. Modern liberty means that nobody is allowed to discuss it. Good taste, the last and vilest of human superstitions, has succeeded in silencing us where all the rest have failed.
There are some people, nevertheless — and I am one of them — who think that the most practical and important thing about a man is still his view of the universe. ... We think that for a general about to fight an enemy, it is important to know the enemy's numbers, but still more important to know the enemy's philosophy. We think the question is not whether the theory of the cosmos affects matters, but whether in the long run, anything else affects them.
When everything about a people is for the time growing weak and ineffective, it begins to talk about efficiency. So it is that when a man's body is a wreck he begins, for the first time, to talk about health. Vigorous organisms talk not about their processes, but about their aims.
There is no such thing on earth as an uninteresting subject; the only thing that can exist is an uninterested person.I wish to deal with my most distinguished contemporaries, not personally or in a merely literary manner, but in relation to the real body of doctrine which they teach. I am not concerned with Mr. Rudyard Kipling as a vivid artist or a vigorous personality; I am concerned with him as a Heretic — that is to say, a man whose view of things has the hardihood to differ from mine. I am not concerned with Mr. Bernard Shaw as one of the most brilliant and one of the most honest men alive; I am concerned with him as a Heretic — that is to say, a man whose philosophy is quite solid, quite coherent, and quite wrong." -
i believe in superman.. But he dont exist... I dont believe that i m in this argument and yet i m.. Wad am i?Originally posted by january:Our actions in life can be traced back to our belief and attitude. THerefore, whether you believe in whatever things and why you have those beliefs will affect your behavior. It is more connected than you are aware.
One another we have our own belief which is handed down years ago. No doubt we are following an unknown path but IF u believe there is there will be. If u DONT believe there will be not. wads the point of understanding god if god exist? Wads the point of understanding if god will still be a god if we understand god.. God is not a being. Neither they dont exist. Is a belief. GOD dont exist. God with those who believe in him.. We cant understand a non existence being as we only follow their path. We UNDERSTAND the teaching not GOD himself. If u can actually understand god. Then i will bow to u with respext as u have reach a higher understanding but u r not a god..
*apologies to those if u r offended by this.. -
"if you believe there is there will be, if you dun believe there will be not"Originally posted by oldbandit:One another we have our own belief which is handed down years ago. No doubt we are following an unknown path but IF u believe there is there will be. If u DONT believe there will be not. wads the point of understanding god if god exist? Wads the point of understanding if god will still be a god if we understand god.. God is not a being. Neither they dont exist. Is a belief. GOD dont exist. God with those who believe in him.. We cant understand a non existence being as we only follow their path. We UNDERSTAND the teaching not GOD himself. If u can actually understand god. Then i will bow to u with respext as u have reach a higher understanding but u r not a god..
*apologies to those if u r offended by this..
This statmenet is another common comment which is fallacious and contradictory. How can god exist and not exist at the same time if there are some people who believe and some believe who dun believe?
"God with those who believe in him"
can you please support your claim?
"We UNDERSTAND the teaching not GOD himself"
If you do not understand GOD himself , how do you know which book to read or whether you should be reading any religious book in the first place.
This is contradictory statment.
How do you know that GOD exist?
You got to have some reason why you say GOD exist.