so where does buddhism wisdom leads us to now?
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since eternal now is such higher regular talker in forum.. i hope he and other buddhist can explain with all the wisdom and many levels of consciousness buddhist have experience , what are we supposed to do and what is supposed to happen?
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supposed to make you get on with your life
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does not everything else make us get on with our life?Originally posted by Omniknight:supposed to make you get on with your life -
some things make us run from realityOriginally posted by january:does not everything else make us get on with our life? -
I think Eternal has already been trying to do that - at least for the "what are we supposed to do" part. I remember reading a few posts about that.Originally posted by january:since eternal now is such higher regular talker in forum.. i hope he and other buddhist can explain with all the wisdom and many levels of consciousness buddhist have experience , what are we supposed to do and what is supposed to happen?
Also, there's a lot more info over at the Buddhism forum. -
Interesting topic... but for a more intergral perspective we must take other psychological states into account for a more integrative viewpoint also...
Will post more another day.
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So dear ex-eric cartman, do you still have ken wilber's bk with you?Originally posted by Omniknight:some things make us run from reality -
Buddhism explains our real purpose in life.It explains apparent injustice and inequality around the world. It provides a code of practice which brings Peace and Happiness.
Buddhism has the answers to the problems in modern materialistic societies. It includes a Deep Understanding of the human mind, which prominent Scientists, and Psychologists around the world are now discovering to be very advanced and effective!! Buddhism teaches not to believe everything we're told but to develop wisdom,which requires an open, objective, unbigoted mind. We can understand others when we can truly understand ourselves through Wisdom.
peace -
so buddhism has the answers. so how do they propose to solve the world problem? what are their progress now?Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Buddhism explains our real purpose in life.It explains apparent injustice and inequality around the world. It provides a code of practice which brings Peace and Happiness.
Buddhism has the answers to the problems in modern materialistic societies. It includes a Deep Understanding of the human mind, which prominent Scientists, and Psychologists around the world are now discovering to be very advanced and effective!! Buddhism teaches not to believe everything we're told but to develop wisdom,which requires an open, objective, unbigoted mind. We can understand others when we can truly understand ourselves through Wisdom.
peace
I believe they are still searching for answers still right? -
when do buddhist expect that thw world will be peaceful.
what sort of world will it be like when we reach that peacefulness?
how will the government be run. how will countries work? how will environmental problems be shared? -
yes whyOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:So dear ex-eric cartman, do you still have ken wilber's bk with you? -
I hope to borrow it from you. Will see about that, maybe too troublesome.Originally posted by Omniknight:yes why -
ManÂ’s untrained mind is responsible for all the troubles, calamities, disturbances, unfavourable circumstances and even the changes of elements and matter. Conversely manÂ’s mind can change unfortunate situations in the world and also can make it a peaceful, prosperous and happy place for all to live.Originally posted by january:when do buddhist expect that thw world will be peaceful.
what sort of world will it be like when we reach that peacefulness?
how will the government be run. how will countries work? how will environmental problems be shared?
The violent world and environmental problems are ills of our world created by human beings, it is within our power to solve them. Both the problem and the solution lie with us. A fundamental part of Buddhist teachings is the protection of nature, and that humans have the capacity for creation as well as destruction of the fragile balance of the earthÂ’s environment. Thus Buddhist teachings show that the solutions to environmental problems depend on the actions and awareness human beings.
Buddhist teachings tell us that hatred and aversion, like their opposites desire and greed, all spring from a fundamental ignorance. That ignorance is our mistaken notion of our own permanent, independent existence. In ignorance, we see ourselves as separate beings, unconnected with others. Blinded to our true state of interdependence and interconnectedness, it is this basic ignorance that keeps us divided. Only practice that leads to overcoming such ignorance will help to free us from the prisons we make for ourselves and for others
The BuddhaÂ’s advice is that we should be free from these distractions if we want to experience bliss. This release must however be obtained by our own effort and come from within ourselves.The quality of life depends not upon external development or material progress, but upon the inner development of peace and happiness.If we integrate Buddha's teachings into our daily life, we will be able to solve all our inner problems and attain a truly peaceful mind. Without inner peace, outer peace is impossible. We all wish for world peace, but world peace will never be achieved unless we first establish peace within our own minds
PS : Hi nice chatting wf you.Think this will be my last visit here.Enjoy ur discussion wf AEN.
All the best -
many other things are also teaching inner peace and simplicity beside buddhism.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:The BuddhaÂ’s advice is that we should be free from these distractions if we want to experience bliss. This release must however be obtained by our own effort and come from within ourselves.The quality of life depends not upon external development or material progress, but upon the inner development of peace and happiness.If we integrate Buddha's teachings into our daily life, we will be able to solve all our inner problems and attain a truly peaceful mind. Without inner peace, outer peace is impossible. We all wish for world peace, but world peace will never be achieved unless we first establish peace within our own minds
PS : Hi nice chatting wf you.Think this will be my last visit here.Enjoy ur discussion wf AEN.
All the best
buddhism needs techonology, science. if not how do u think people can talk about buddhism here.
aeroplane was invented by sciene and technology, and it enable buddhists to travel and meet fellow buddhists.
handphone , telephone was invented with science and tech and it allow buddhist to talk to one another.
mediating and reading buddhist books all the time can bring inner peace, but the world needs other things also.
buddhism strength is mainly in mediating , concentration and awarness skills and this are good stuff, so i am okay with these things.
do note that there are many things besides buddhism that teach mediation, concentration and awareness like yoga, zen and other schools.
you no need to be a buddhist to have a peacful life. there are many sources of self improvemnet books that enables one to have a peaceful life already.
The main problem with buddhism is that its logic is faulty. i see many buddhist explaining things in a illogical ways and impractical so there are not helpful to reality. -
a zen master said, "before i came to zen, mountains were only mountains, rivers were only rivers, trees only trees. after i got into zen, mountains were no longer mountains, rivers no longer rivers, trees no longer trees. but when enlightenment happened, mountains were again only mountains, rivers again only rivers, trees again only trees."Originally posted by january:many other things are also teaching inner peace and simplicity beside buddhism.
buddhism needs techonology, science. if not how do u think people can talk about buddhism here.
aeroplane was invented by sciene and technology, and it enable buddhists to travel and meet fellow buddhists.
handphone , telephone was invented with science and tech and it allow buddhist to talk to one another.
mediating and reading buddhist books all the time can bring inner peace, but the world needs other things also.
buddhism strength is mainly in mediating , concentration and awarness skills and this are good stuff, so i am okay with these things.
do note that there are many things besides buddhism that teach mediation, concentration and awareness like yoga, zen and other schools.
you no need to be a buddhist to have a peacful life. there are many sources of self improvemnet books that enables one to have a peaceful life already.
The main problem with buddhism is that its logic is faulty. i see many buddhist explaining things in a illogical ways and impractical so there are not helpful to reality.
it's a matter of choices.
so where do you wish to lead to?
and what is logic to you in the first place?
if you're behind the walls, can you see through it? (this question is for you to drill a hole into the wall and have a wider perspective, perhaps you can tear down the wall even better. hey you know there's a thing called door, well it's not invented by buddhist though, but you may open the door and look inside.)
buddhism is one of the doors that leads to peace, simplicity as you required. of course anyone is entitled to read up on books on self improvement and other useful info that improves the quality of life. most authors of self improvement titles are great with insights too. perhaps they had also read about buddhism and other sources for ideas and inspirations, you never know.
handphone, aeroplane, telephone, technology - hey aren't they just an invention? what is your point here? so were does your mind come from?
yes of course there are other schools and mediums that teaches meditation, concentration and awareness. by all means. it's a choice you pick that suits your capacity and comfort.
flowers bud, bloom and wither, if that's illogical then what's logical to you?
if the 4 noble truths and the noble 8 fold path is illogical to you, then what is?
if a buddhist lends a helping hand, expresses loving kindness and live in harmony with others, do you really see that as impractical? if so, then what is practical to you then?
even if a buddhist decides to leave buddhism and take on another path, it is alright. the buddha taught us to explore, experiment and experience for oneself. the way is yours to pick and lead. nothing bias and nothing prejudice. anyone can pick their choice of robe and advance in it.
well i'm just stopping by with a friendly post. you have interesting and controversial topics. just keep an open mind for some thoughts - goes along way.
wah... your post sounds rather sarcastic leh.Originally posted by january:since eternal now is such higher regular talker in forum.. i hope he and other buddhist can explain with all the wisdom and many levels of consciousness buddhist have experience , what are we supposed to do and what is supposed to happen?
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No lah... I don't find it sarcastic..Originally posted by paperflower:wah... your post sounds rather sarcastic leh.
Now that my exams are over, I have more time to post
Will post later.. -
Alright. Because you have asked questions such as 'how does Buddhism and modern science contribution' relate, I'll have to take things into a higher perspective, and not just talk about Buddhism, otherwise there will only be confusion -- you'll mix up all the quadrants and all the levels, and confuse something of different nature such as transpersonal insights with development of other quadrants.Originally posted by january:since eternal now is such higher regular talker in forum.. i hope he and other buddhist can explain with all the wisdom and many levels of consciousness buddhist have experience , what are we supposed to do and what is supposed to happen?
Now for the INTEGRAL perspective of the world (I'm not just mentioning Buddhism alone but something that links everything up together, but Buddhism will come later as we'll see, including all the world's contemplative and mystical traditions), I'm going to have to take Ken Wilber's (one of world's best integral philosopher)'s writings. I haven't got the book in a very long time, I only briefly read through the whole book and it isn't deep in my memory now so I am just going to skim through some ideas found on the net.
But first you have to understand some of the basic concepts of Integral Theory, so please refer to this short summary: http://www.geocities.com/piers_clement/victor.html -- the levels of consciousness, the four quadrants, holons, etc. I highly recommend 'A Brief History of Everything' by Ken Wilber to everyone interested, it is a good read. Available in major bookstores and national libraries.
Some of the charts:
Notice that, Mysticism (A+B+C+D+E) does NOT replace A, does not replace B, does not replace C and so on... but it ENCOMPASSES all A+B+C+D+E, therefore it is the highest (mysticism here should be refering to psychic, subtle, causal, non-dual). (Non-Dual Spirit as you can see however is not exactly a state -- it is the ground reality of all states, there is no state that is not of the nature of non-dual. Nondual/No-Self is a Dharma Seal. It is also the realisation of 'Emptiness is Form, Form is Emptiness' as well as the non-duality of Subject and Object, the instrinsic luminosity of all phenomena, etc.)
And same goes to Theology, which does not replace Psychology, Biology, or Matter/Physics but is a expansion into a different category, it ENCOMPASSES Psychology, Biology, Matter/Physics. The rest are the same -- Psychology encompasses Biology and Physics, and so on. You get the idea.
http://newworldview.com/library/Helfrich_P_The_Five_Phases_of_Wilber.html
....“The Great Chain is traditionally given as matter, body, mind soul, and spirit [figure 8]. Many traditions subdivide this considerably. For example, the soul is often divided into psychic and subtle levels, and spirit into causal and nondual. An expanded Great Nest would therefore include: matter, body, mind soul (psychic, subtle), and spirit (causal and nondual).
....“That is fine. But those levels are supposed to include all of reality. Yet as stated, they mostly apply to just the Upper-Left quadrant (the spectrum of interior consciousness)—and that’s the first inadequacy. Thus, as I have often tried to point out, each of the vertical levels of the Great Chain needs to be differentiated into four horizontal dimensions (the four quadrants). So in addition to the subjective spectrum of consciousness, we need to add objective correlates (the Upper-Right quadrant), intersubjective cultural backgrounds (Lower-Left quadrant), and collective social systems (Lower-Right) [see figure 7, page 22]. Otherwise the Great Chain cannot withstand the blistering critiques that modernity has (correctly) leveled at it.
“… The second inadequacy is that the level of mind itself needs to be subdivided in light of its early development. Here the contributions of Western psychology are decisive. To put it in a nutshell, the mind itself has at least four major stages of growth: magic (2-5 yrs), mythic (6-11 yrs), rational (11 onward), and integral-aperspectival or vision-logic (adulthood, if then).
“If we put all this evidence together, drawing on the East and West alike, then a more complete Great Nest of Being would include these ten spheres, each of which enfolds its predecessor(s) in a development that is envelopment:
1. Sensorimotor [physical body, physiosphere]
2. Emotional-sexual [biological drives, prana, libido, bioenergy]
3. Magic [preoperational: egocentric, animistic, anthropocentric, word magic, narcisstic]
4. Mythic [conventional operational: concrete rule/role mind]
5. Rational [formal operational: formal reflexive, scientific]
6. Vision-logic [highest function in gross realm: unity in diversity, universal pluralism]
7. Psychic [beginning of transpersonal: nature mysticism with gross realm]
8. Subtle [deity mysticism with subtle, dream, astral realm]
9. Causal [formless mysticism, root of Witnessing consciousness, source self/inner self]
10. Nondual [integral or nondual mysticism, highest Goal of all stages]
And here is the 4 Quadrants:
Here's another good website for his materials: http://www.kheper.net/topics/Wilber/index.html
What this means is for an integral perspective we must work on all quadrants all levels and bring integration into our lives. You can become enlightened, but doesn't mean because you're enlightened you must be skewed to a particular quadrants -- because Spirit is all-pervading and we must work on all levels, all quadrants, in an integrative perspective. Therefore it doesn't mean you can neglect any of the four quadrants.
OK, now we go to the different levels of Consciousness.
There are 5 parts of an individual consciousness (http://www.thechrysalisage.com/Essays/essay7Integtheater.htm) -- Physical, Instinctual, Emotional, Intellectual, Spiritual.
(to be continued in the next post) -
(continued)
As my Master commented on Chinese philosophies/religions: Confucianism deals with Worldly (worldly development of all quadrants), Taoism (here I mean Lao Tzu's teachings, not religious Taoism) deals with Other-Worldly (i.e Spiritual or Transpersonal level), Buddhism deals with both. In some ways it is a holistic development of an individual/collective in an integral way, which encompasses all quadrants with more focus on an individual's overall development of consciousness such as the 5 levels of an individual above. HOWEVER, the focus is on developing transcendental insights, because that is what is ultimately considered to be Enlightenment in Buddhism. Sciences and knowledge (i.e maths) dealing with other fields are best to be left in their own fields, Buddhism is what Buddhism is (i.e it teaches the way out of suffering, it never said you will become enlightened to Mathematics or Biology by meditating, but the nature of everything is non-dual), we can integrate Buddhism to the world but don't confuse all the quadrants and levels up. Speaking in terms of transcendental insight, Spirit/Buddha Nature/[you name it] is All-Pervading and Infinite without boundaries, so there is no where it cannot be found, even in atoms, biological structures, etc. (like I posted previously -- it is all encompassing)
If you want to talk about what is Buddhism's contribution to the 'WE' or 'ITS' quadrant? Among many things such as the training in Morality (part of the Three Trainings), an example is the teachings that Buddha taught is to treat all beings as equal and with compassion and loving kindness for every single living being -- he discarded the Brahmin Caste biases which was an intrinsic part of Society at that time and continues to be in India at certain places, he taught kings not to fight wars aggressively/conquer other lands (defend is ok though), a great example is King Ashoka (do look up into his story). According to the Levels of Consciousness (I'm talking about Pre Trans-Personal stages), an individual's egocentricity progresses all the way from non-differentiation narcissism to a Global Perspective, which if conditions are met (i.e he does spiritual practises) he progresses to Transpersonal levels of consciousness. Even if a person who has not reached Transpersonal levels or Enlightenment, one who practises Buddhism will definitely progress much more quickly to Worldcentric or more Integrative level of consciousness, rather than being stuck at being identified with the individual, or a group. Please read the follow-up article: SPIRAL DYNAMICS AND THE WAVES OF EXISTENCE, which I am posting next.
Buddhism is the only religion that does not have wars (of religious cause or nature) in history -- so are all Mystical and Contemplative traditions worldwide (but not the dogmatic part of the religions who cling to low-level consciousness interpretation of their scriptures, such as if you're not the believer of my God, I can kill, that sort of thing) --Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
However, what is different from Buddhism and Worldly philosophies? It is still the Transcendental, Transpersonal part, resulting in LIBERATION from all sufferings. How does transcendental non-dual insights related to Liberation? Please read: All About Buddhism ~ For Non-Buddhists and Buddhists, 04 April 2007 · 01:18 AM, the post containing an article authored by Arhat, Dharma Dan/Dr. Daniel Ingram, on the Four Noble Truths.
No fanaticism
Of Buddhism alone can it be affirmed it is free from all fanaticism. Its aim being to produce in every man a thorough internal transforming by self-conquest, how can it have recourse to might or money or even persuasion for effecting conversion? The Buddha has only shown the way to salvation, and it is left to each individual to decide for himself if he would follow it.
- Prof. Lakshmi Narasu, "The Essence of Buddhism"
It is realisation of the NON-DUAL reality that there never was any subject-object seperation, and that the entire universe is a one whole display of Luminous-Emptiness, our ultimate true Buddha Nature. One who realises this abides in the highest bliss of Nirvana even in Samsara (Nirvana is only Samsara rightly seen!) There will no longer be delusions, no longer be sufferings due to dualistic grasping, attraction and aversion. All that arises in moment to moment reality is seen to be Luminous Emptiness, all phenomena is instrinsically Luminous/Aware and Empty, transient, Self-Liberating, and interdependently co-arisen without locality, and there is no separate Agent/Self/Watcher/Doer that is 'experiencing' the 'world' out there. According to my friend Thusness who had very deep insights into Non-duality, deeper range of Non-Duality is described as such (The Different Degrees of Non-Duality):
4. Only one tremendous spontaneous clarity flows, there is no differentiation between what that spins the earth or what that pumps your heart beats or what that makes the plants grow. When you eat an apple, it is the entire universe that eats the apple. Just one whole clarity spontaneity flow. Continual experience of transcendence joy and bliss.
One who attains a deep insights of non-duality (not the lower levels of non-duality, and definitely not merely Causal awakening, which I wrote the differences in the other topic) immediately attains the rank of an Anagami, which is just one more step away from Arhatship (there are 4 levels to Arhatship), and how does it correlate to the Bodhisattva bhumi? Somewhere around 4th bhumi (there are 10 Bhumis to Buddhahood), and an Arhat is 6~8th bhumi. Even today there are many people who continue to have such high levels of attainments, including some who post in my forum, not necessarily only dharma teachers (can be ordinary practitioners as well).
More interesting articles on Non-Dual insights, Enlightenment, can be found at my blog, http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.
How are we going to attain Transcendental Insights into Nonduality? It can be as simple as the 8 Fold Path -- it sounds simple at first but yet the subtlety of spirituality is deep, as you practise further you discover yourselves. But generally speaking, as I wrote to AndrewPKYap (who, btw for those who didn't know, definitely had causal awakening based on what he wrote in sgforums):
(continued in next post) -
Heaven does not exist - Andrew PK Yap
Lastly these are just my 2 cents and understanding, you can read up more.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:This is only a brief introduction.. those interested please come my forum and read up some of the threads.
8 fold path is broken down into 3 parts: Morality, Mental Development, Wisdom.
Without morality, one's mind is disturbed by evil thoughts and guilt and etc, and will not be able to practise samadhi and wisdom. Without morality (skillful action, skillful speech, skillful livelihood), you will suffer bad karmic consequences and your life will be in a mess. You will bring others and yourself lots of unnecessary troubles and sufferings.
Next part is mental development, which consists of skillful energy, skillful concentration, and skillful mindfulness. They are necessary otherwise the mind is scattered and will not be able to focus and develope insights. This part of development can lead to all sorts of amazing meditative experiences like jhanic bliss (I had some of these experiences before) which are more blissful than anything (including sex). They may even lead to development of psychic abilities. However, in Buddhism, concentration is not used as a means to itself or to develope psychic powers, but used for developing Insights and Wisdom. Non-Buddhist meditative practises such as Qi Gong, Yoga, etc, belong to the Shamatha category, which are concentrative practises but by itself does not necessarily lead to insights.
The last part, Wisdom, is essential to develope insights into Reality, so that one may awaken from the dream of samsara... into to the dream of samsara. Because nirvana is not somewhere far away, it is just samsara rightly seen. Only a quantum leap in perception is required and this time you know it's dream-like and no longer grasps on appearances. All appearances are self-luminous (expressions of pure awareness) and empty (no locality, only dependent co-arising out of conditions), self-arising and self-liberating. You'll be able to see how the nature/characteristics of phenomena as impermanence (arises and passes instantaneously), dukkha (suffering) and not-self (no self to be found anywhere).
The wisdom section has the two last parts of the path: skillful thought or intention and skillful understanding or wisdom. They are about understanding the truth of your experience and aspire to kindness and wisdom in your thoughts and deeds.
Mental development and Wisdom part is where Shamatha-Insight practise comes in. Whether it is Theravada (they call it Samatha-Vipassana), Zen or Vajrayana (Shamatha-Vipashyana), they all teach this part to develope wisdom that leads to enlightenment.
Here, strong mindfulness and clarity is developed which is able to penetrate through our illusions to realise the nature of our reality/experience (self luminous emptiness, 3 dharma seals, etc). For example we always assume and are comfortably identified with our body-mind as our sense of self. In deep meditative clarity, the arising of thoughts are clearly perceived... In such meditation, one will discover that there is really NO observer of these thoughts. The subsequent thoughts that arise after the previous thought are the 'observation' of their predecessors. This is just an example, paraphrasing one of my friend's own realisations and experiences. There are many series of realisations along one's path, what is mentioned is only one of them. In a way it works like the 'regression' concept you mentioned earlier. Insights developed through deep clarity shatters all our delusions and attachment.
How will people know they are enlightened? When they no longer have doubts about the nature of reality because what is more real than real cannot be doubted. Will an outsider be able to verify? Other enlightened ones have ways to verify, for example Zen Masters have 'checking questions'. Usually enlightened people will know another person's enlightenment just by meeting each other and having a few conversations. For people like me, I can usually make a good guess base on his writings and my guesses are usually quite accurate, though I cannot be sure because I am not enlightened yet.
Oh yes,
This part, I already answered you previously in the other topic:Originally posted by january:do note that there are many things besides buddhism that teach mediation, concentration and awareness like yoga, zen and other schools.
you no need to be a buddhist to have a peacful life. there are many sources of self improvemnet books that enables one to have a peaceful life already.
What this means is of course, all other non-Buddhist shamatha practises though make you calmer (in fact exercising can have same effect too), they DO NOT transform Consciousness into Wisdom (See the article my master wrote in The Four Wisdoms, Eight Consciousnesses & Trikaya (3 Bodies)), they DO NOT get rid of your fundamental dualistic attraction, aversion and delusion.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Small correction.... the Calmness component mostly comes from the Shamatha side of meditation, which means the Concentration side. Shamatha meditation can lead to mundane jhanas/absorptions (I have such experiences) which are ridiculously blissful states - more blissful than sex, and seemingly more 'stable' and less 'transient' (though ultimately in nature it is still transient). These are are meditative states that can be mastered, however, they are do not lead to liberation.
Calmness does not itself lead to insights and wisdom in Buddhism, it must be done through the Insight part (in Buddhism there are three trainings: Morality, Concentration and Insight). Other religions' meditations are usually about Shamatha meditation (which leads to Samadhi/Jhanas), or Self-Inquiry (which leads to Causal level of awakening, this is another thing). Shamatha however cannot lead to enlightenment... therefore you can gain calmness in Qi Gong or Yoga or etc but not enlightenment.
Concentration in Buddhism however is not a means to an end itself, concentration in Buddhism can develope Jhanas, Samadhi and even Psychic abilities, however, that is not our ultimate aim, and the Shamatha component is merely developed to support Insight practise as without concentration/calmness your mind will be wandering all around and cannot develope insight.
Insight practise requires clarity/awareness/mindfulness, observing moment to moment reality, and in the process observes the 3 characteristics of existence, its luminous-emptiness, etc.
Oh yes one more very important thing!! Zen is BUDDHISM. It is also a Buddhist tradition that practises Shamatha-Vipashyana (called Shikantaza or Mo Zhao) and Koan (only Zen practises this, this is their 'special' meditative technique) and Self-inquiry, it is a tradition that aims to develope Transcendental Non-dual insights in their practitioners. Zen is all about Enlightenment, strange you didn't knew that.
What exactly is the illogical part? You always say that, but it seems you cannot even point them outOriginally posted by january:The main problem with buddhism is that its logic is faulty. i see many buddhist explaining things in a illogical ways and impractical so there are not helpful to reality.
If there is something you don't understand, we can discuss. -
http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm
Ken Wilber Summary of Spiral Dynamics model
Ken Wilber is perhaps the most fundamental influence on the Rational Spirituality perspective, both because of his overarching developmental model, and his focus on the relationship between non-dual consciousness (experiential spirituality) and physical//social/material reality. His use of Spiral dynamics to simplify and communicate the essence of a developmental model in a way that not only explains but also illuminates is one of his most important contributions to the popular understanding of both the existence and importance of STAGES in Human Development.
Shambhala Pulbishing has a number of pieces available for public consumption that Ken has written on their website at www.shambhala.com. This piece is from one of those publicly available documents, and includes an extended quote from Ken's book: "A Theory of Everything."
--
KW: In Integral Psychology I present charts that summarize over 100 developmental psychologists, East and West, ancient and modern and postmodern. Spiral Dynamics is only one of the 100, but I have recently been using it quite a bit because it is simple and fairly easy to learn, even for beginners. Based on extensive research begun by Clare Graves, Spiral Dynamics (developed by Don Beck and Christopher Cowan) sees human beings evolving or developing through eight major waves of consciousness. For convenience, I will reprint my brief summary of these from A Theory of Everything.
SPIRAL DYNAMICS AND THE WAVES OF EXISTENCE
The first six levels are "subsistence levels" marked by "first-tier thinking." Then there occurs a revolutionary shift in consciousness: the emergence of "being levels" and "second-tier thinking," of which there are two major waves. Here is a brief description of all eight waves, the percentage of the world population at each wave, and the percentage of social power held by each.
1. Beige: Archaic-Instinctual . The level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life.
Where seen: First human societies, newborn infants, senile elderly, late-stage Alzheimer's victims, mentally ill street people, starving masses, shell shock. Approximately 0.1% of the adult population, 0% power.
2. Purple: Magical-Animistic . Thinking is animistic; magical spirits, good and bad, swarm the earth leaving blessings, curses, and spells which determine events. Forms into ethnic tribes . The spirits exist in ancestors and bond the tribe. Kinship and lineage establish political links. Sounds "holistic" but is actually atomistic: "there is a name for each bend in the river but no name for the river."
Where seen: Belief in voodoo-like curses, blood oaths, ancient grudges, good luck charms, family rituals, magical ethnic beliefs and superstitions; strong in Third-World settings, gangs, athletic teams, and corporate "tribes." 10% of the population, 1% of the power.
3. Red: Power Gods . First emergence of a self distinct from the tribe; powerful, impulsive, egocentric, heroic. Magical-mythic spirits, dragons, beasts, and powerful people. Archetypal gods and goddesses, powerful beings, forces to be reckoned with, both good and bad. Feudal lords protect underlings in exchange for obedience and labor. The basis of feudal empires --power and glory. The world is a jungle full of threats and predators. Conquers, out-foxes, and dominates; enjoys self to the fullest without regret or remorse; be here now.
Where seen: The "terrible twos," rebellious youth, frontier mentalities, feudal kingdoms, epic heroes, James Bond villains, gang leaders, soldiers of fortune, New-Age narcissism, wild rock stars, Atilla the Hun, Lord of the Flies . 20% of the population, 5% of the power.
4. Blue: Mythic Order . Life has meaning, direction, and purpose, with outcomes determined by an all-powerful Other or Order. This righteous Order enforces a code of conduct based on absolutist and unvarying principles of "right" and "wrong." Violating the code or rules has severe, perhaps everlasting repercussions. Following the code yields rewards for the faithful. Basis of ancient nations . Rigid social hierarchies; paternalistic; one right way and only one right way to think about everything. Law and order; impulsivity controlled through guilt; concrete-literal and fundamentalist belief; obedience to the rule of Order; strongly conventional and conformist. Often "religious" or "mythic" [in the mythic-membership sense; Graves and Beck refer to it as the "saintly/absolutistic" level], but can be secular or atheistic Order or Mission.
Where seen: Puritan America, Confucian China, Dickensian England, Singapore discipline, totalitarianism, codes of chivalry and honor, charitable good deeds, religious fundamentalism (e.g., Christian and Islamic), Boy and Girl Scouts, "moral majority," patriotism. 40% of the population, 30% of the power.
5. Orange: Scientific Achievement . At this wave, the self "escapes" from the "herd mentality" of blue, and seeks truth and meaning in individualistic terms--hypothetico-deductive, experimental, objective, mechanistic, operational--"scientific" in the typical sense. The world is a rational and well-oiled machine with natural laws that can be learned, mastered, and manipulated for one's own purposes. Highly achievement oriented, especially (in America) toward materialistic gains. The laws of science rule politics, the economy, and human events. The world is a chess-board on which games are played as winners gain pre-eminence and perks over losers. Marketplace alliances; manipulate earth's resources for one's strategic gains. Basis of corporate states .
Where seen: The Enlightenment, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged , Wall Street, emerging middle classes around the world, cosmetics industry, trophy hunting, colonialism, the Cold War, fashion industry, materialism, secular humanism, liberal self-interest. 30% of the population, 50% of the power.
6. Green: The Sensitive Self . Communitarian, human bonding, ecological sensitivity, networking. The human spirit must be freed from greed, dogma, and divisiveness; feelings and caring supersede cold rationality; cherishing of the earth, Gaia, life. Against hierarchy; establishes lateral bonding and linking. Permeable self, relational self, group intermeshing. Emphasis on dialogue, relationships. Basis of value communities (i.e., freely chosen affiliations based on shared sentiments). Reaches decisions through reconciliation and consensus (downside: interminable "processing" and incapacity to reach decisions). Refresh spirituality, bring harmony, enrich human potential. Strongly egalitarian, anti-hierarchy, pluralistic values, social construction of reality, diversity, multiculturalism, relativistic value systems; this worldview is often called pluralistic relativism . Subjective, nonlinear thinking; shows a greater degree of affective warmth, sensitivity, and caring, for earth and all its inhabitants. -
Where seen: Deep ecology, postmodernism, Netherlands idealism, Rogerian counseling, Canadian health care, humanistic psychology, liberation theology, cooperative inquiry, World Council of Churches, Greenpeace, animal rights, ecofeminism, post-colonialism, Foucault/Derrida, politically correct, diversity movements, human rights issues, ecopsychology. 10% of the population, 15% of the power. [Note: this is 10% of the world population. Don Beck estimates that around 20-25% of the American population is green.]
With the completion of the green meme, human consciousness is poised for a quantum jump into "second-tier thinking." Clare Graves referred to this as a "momentous leap," where "a chasm of unbelievable depth of meaning is crossed." In essence, with second-tier consciousness, one can think both vertically and horizontally, using both hierarchies and heterarchies (both ranking and linking). One can therefore, for the first time, vividly grasp the entire spectrum of interior development , and thus see that each level, each meme, each wave is crucially important for the health of the overall Spiral.
As I would word it, each wave is "transcend and include." That is, each wave goes beyond (or transcends) its predecessor, and yet it includes or embraces it in its own makeup. For example, a cell transcends but includes molecules, which transcend but include atoms. To say that a molecule goes beyond an atom is not to say that molecules hate atoms, but that they love them: they embrace them in their own makeup; they include them, they don't marginalize them. Just so, each wave of existence is a fundamental ingredient of all subsequent waves, and thus each is to be cherished and embraced.
Moreover, each wave can itself be activated or reactivated as life circumstances warrant. In emergency situations, we can activate red power drives; in response to chaos, we might need to activate blue order; in looking for a new job, we might need orange achievement drives; in marriage and with friends, close green bonding. All of these memes have something important to contribute.
But what none of the first-tier memes can do, on their own, is fully appreciate the existence of the other memes. Each of the first-tier memes thinks that its worldview is the correct or best perspective. It reacts negatively if challenged; it lashes out, using its own tools, whenever it is threatened. Blue order is very uncomfortable with both red impulsiveness and orange individualism. Orange individualism thinks blue order is for suckers and green egalitarianism is weak and woo-woo. Green egalitarianism cannot easily abide excellence and value rankings, big pictures, hierarchies, or anything that appears authoritarian, and thus green reacts strongly to blue, orange, and anything post-green.
All of that begins to change with second-tier thinking. Because second-tier consciousness is fully aware of the interior stages of development--even if it cannot articulate them in a technical fashion--it steps back and grasps the big picture, and thus second-tier thinking appreciates the necessary role that all of the various memes play . Second-tier awareness thinks in terms of the overall spiral of existence, and not merely in the terms of any one level.
Where the green meme begins to grasp the numerous different systems and pluralistic contexts that exist in different cultures (which is why it is indeed the sensitive self, i.e., sensitive to the marginalization of others), second-tier thinking goes one step further. It looks for the rich contexts that link and join these pluralistic systems, and thus it takes these separate systems and begins to embrace, include, and integrate them into holistic spirals and integral meshworks. Second-tier thinking, in other words, is instrumental in moving from relativism to holism, or from pluralism to integralism .
The extensive research of Graves, Beck, and Cowan indicates that there are at least two major waves to this second-tier integral consciousness:
7. Yellow: Integrative . Life is a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies [holarchies], systems, and forms. Flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality have the highest priority. Differences and pluralities can be integrated into interdependent, natural flows. Egalitarianism is complemented with natural degrees of ranking and excellence. Knowledge and competency should supersede power, status, or group sensitivity. The prevailing world order is the result of the existence of different levels of reality (memes) and the inevitable patterns of movement up and down the dynamic spiral. Good governance facilitates the emergence of entities through the levels of increasing complexity (nested hierarchy). 1% of the population, 5% of the power.
8. Turquoise: Holistic . Universal holistic system, holons/waves of integrative energies; unites feeling with knowledge; multiple levels interwoven into one conscious system. Universal order, but in a living, conscious fashion, not based on external rules (blue) or group bonds (green). A "grand unification" [a "theory of everything" or T.O.E.] is possible, in theory and in actuality. Sometimes involves the emergence of a new spirituality as a meshwork of all existence. Turquoise thinking uses the entire Spiral; sees multiple levels of interaction; detects harmonics, the mystical forces, and the pervasive flow-states that permeate any organization. 0.1% of the population, 1% of the power.
With less than 2 percent of the population at second-tier thinking (and only 0.1 percent at turquoise), second-tier consciousness is relatively rare because it is now the "leading-edge" of collective human evolution. As examples, Beck and Cowan mention items that include Teilhard de Chardin's noosphere, chaos and complexity theories, universal systems thinking, integral-holistic theories, Gandhi's and Mandela's pluralistic integration, with increases in frequency definitely on the way, and even higher memes still in the offing.... -
being sarcastic may not necessarily be a bad thing after all. it's what his intention that matters.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:No lah... I don't find it sarcastic..
Now that my exams are over, I have more time to post
Will post later..
you don't feel but i feel mah. but hey it's doesn't matter to me anyway after all it's only a forum. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Wow
4. Blue: Mythic Order . Life has meaning, direction, and purpose, with outcomes determined by an all-powerful Other or Order. This righteous Order enforces a code of conduct based on absolutist and unvarying principles of "right" and "wrong." Violating the code or rules has severe, perhaps everlasting repercussions. Following the code yields rewards for the faithful. Basis of ancient nations . Rigid social hierarchies; paternalistic; one right way and only one right way to think about everything. Law and order; impulsivity controlled through guilt; concrete-literal and fundamentalist belief; obedience to the rule of Order; strongly conventional and conformist. Often "religious" or "mythic" [in the mythic-membership sense; Graves and Beck refer to it as the "saintly/absolutistic" level], but can be secular or atheistic Order or Mission.
Where seen: Puritan America, Confucian China, Dickensian England, Singapore discipline, totalitarianism, codes of chivalry and honor, charitable good deeds, religious fundamentalism (e.g., Christian and Islamic), Boy and Girl Scouts, "moral majority," patriotism. 40% of the population, 30% of the power. -
I think discussion must be on a rational intellectual basis, I for one never take things personally in an open forum.Originally posted by paperflower:being sarcastic may not necessarily be a bad thing after all. it's what his intention that matters.
you don't feel but i feel mah. but hey it's doesn't matter to me anyway after all it's only a forum. -
expression comes freely, i speak only how i feel not taking it personally also.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I think discussion must be on a rational intellectual basis, I for one never take things personally in an open forum.