why do u most pple still believe in GOD?
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yes its very true! why don't u guys believe him?Originally posted by Evanglion:yes i did died and come back and its up to you to believe
now i knew then ans and it still up to you to believe even if i say there is a god. Everything its up to you to believe and thats why i said died and you will know the ans
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn too! I may not be able to see Her but i can "feel" Her all the time!
"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them."
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You are all deluded.
Clearly the One True Faith is Pastafarianism.
All hail the Flying Spagetti Monster. May He touch you with his Noodly Appendage. -
Gotta be kidding me....Pastafarism
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hmmm.... there is a difference between freethinker and atheism
Freethinker are people who form his or her ideas independently of authority especially on religious matter...
Atheism are people who dont believe in god...
Ok ... back to the subject.... why do people believe in god ???
All humans can have mental breakdown. All humans have some kind of mental barrier. Mental barrier for example things that
things you think it is impossible to be get it done,
things that you think you could not live without,
things that you think ........ many things ... lol
Therefore, there is some kinds of teaching called spiritual help that enable ones to break this mental barrier. For example,
when you are in pain, it reduces yr suffering,
when you face problem, it gives u strenght,
when you face fear, it gives u courage,
when you face death, it gives u the power to see beyond life and death,
and many many many things
Of coz, spiritual help works much better than modern psychologic, medicine, code of laws and etc...
Therefore, it will be much a worry if there are less people who believe in god...
I am a freethinker but I am not an athesim... I learnt teachings from all kinds of religion. I never practice them devotely. From their different kinds of teachings, I form my own code. That is me. -
God's Protection EXODUS 14:14
The Lord himself will fight for you. You won't have to lift a finger in your defense! -
people may read these threads, become more atheistic and hence is influenced by it.they dun necessarily report to me that they have become atheism.Originally posted by givemeluck:btw.... im juz curious , january .... did u managed to "educate" any believers by now ?
anyway, also, some process are long term, what they read now may only be used in future which cause them to realize that atheism is true. For, me , setting this forum is both natural and past time. its also sometimes not a digital thing of atheist and non atheist.. it can be a range thing also. -
Originally posted by january:sometimes i dun understand.
the evidence is quite clear and abundant there is no GOD or no benevolant GOD to make sure everyone is safe and happy.
The stories that man turn evil and cause his own suffering or story of Satan are so laughable that i wonder why people will buy it.
last time, i critique abt GOD and stuff and was being said that i would die or what but i am still standing here today and seeing pple from all walks of life dying and meeting serious accidents.
on the positive side, it is beneficial for me that pple believe in GOD because from competition perspective, i will win more if pple rely on GOD or religion to do things.
on negative side, the world and my life will continue to be filled with ignorant people who likes to delude themselves.
but i guess it all boils down to human nature, human brain and our environment that allows the belief in GOD to sustain.
frankly , from the above thoughts, it seems that the most deluded person is yourself.. but very often it is pple like you who eventually turn into the most zealous servants for God once you wake up from your self-worshiping grandious ideas. i look forward to that one day soon -
many spiritual people continue to complain and suffer mentally throughout their life because in reality there is simply no god. realit operates all the different kind of laws and systems and its merciless in some extent.Originally posted by ispyyy:hmmm.... there is a difference between freethinker and atheism
Freethinker are people who form his or her ideas independently of authority especially on religious matter...
Atheism are people who dont believe in god...
Ok ... back to the subject.... why do people believe in god ???
All humans can have mental breakdown. All humans have some kind of mental barrier. Mental barrier for example things that
things you think it is impossible to be get it done,
things that you think you could not live without,
things that you think ........ many things ... lol
Therefore, there is some kinds of teaching called spiritual help that enable ones to break this mental barrier. For example,
when you are in pain, it reduces yr suffering,
when you face problem, it gives u strenght,
when you face fear, it gives u courage,
when you face death, it gives u the power to see beyond life and death,
and many many many things
Of coz, spiritual help works much better than modern psychologic, medicine, code of laws and etc...
Therefore, it will be much a worry if there are less people who believe in god...
I am a freethinker but I am not an athesim... I learnt teachings from all kinds of religion. I never practice them devotely. From their different kinds of teachings, I form my own code. That is me. -
i have been atheist for around 4 years liao..Originally posted by jljl: frankly , from the above thoughts, it seems that the most deluded person is yourself.. but very often it is pple like you who eventually turn into the most zealous servants for God once you wake up from your self-worshiping grandious ideas. i look forward to that one day soon
atheist are very humble...
they believe that they dun exist after death.. which is the worst case scenario among other beliefs..
how brave and humble can other religion be compared to atheism. -
come to think of it.. atheist people are very brave and not lazy.
they face their fear to think that there is no afterlife after all and have to come to term with accepting this truth.
they are not lazy because to think that there is nogod means they have to work harder because there is no nice guy up there and its up to human themselves to make their life better -
well said~Originally posted by january:atheist are very humble...
they believe that they dun exist after death.. which is the worst case scenario among other beliefs..
i have been atheist for 9yrs already...
its actually not easy to find ppl like you, cos frens around me are in all kinds of religions..even my closest love is a catholic, which i am really quite fedup having the frustrating debate about god's existence already.
i dun get why they (especially those GOD believers) are so obsessed with life after death...
if we live our humble precious life meaningfully, treasure our loved ones, and living our life to the fullest extend...why would we even care abt what happen to us after we die?
but seems like my message is very hard to get across to those ppl's mind who have been brainwashed every sunday at the church mass.
haiz -
Well God can manifest as the invisible pink unicorn if that's what you are stuck with in your mind.
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actually, u are not an atheist... but merely a 'stranger', because you haven't had the chance to encounter GodOriginally posted by january:come to think of it.. atheist people are very brave and not lazy.
they face their fear to think that there is no afterlife after all and have to come to term with accepting this truth.
they are not lazy because to think that there is nogod means they have to work harder because there is no nice guy up there and its up to human themselves to make their life better
hhah almost like saying you are looking for a place within a town like Ang Mo Kio, u can't find it, therefore says it doesn't exist... that makes it so much easier to accept your state of loss; thus you declare it's better to wander around in the town in your own strength, hoping one day you'll become someone prominent there, or even be the 'name' of the town itself. Forgetting all about ....."who gave you the thoughts to seek in the first place? why is this 'place' so important to you in the first place?"
humility is acknowledging you are lost, courage is asking those who know the way, and then take that chance to try to see if they are telling you the truth. It u 'reject' the Truth after u have 'seen' it for yourself, at least that counts for something... -
1) lol... they doubt in the existence of god means they r starting to lose faith lor...Originally posted by january:many spiritual people continue to complain and suffer mentally throughout their life because in reality there is simply no god. realit operates all the different kind of laws and systems and its merciless in some extent.
2) I never say that spiritual help can completely eliminate complain and mental pain. But it reduce it to an extent depends on their belief in it
3) hmmm... your statement is based on there is no god in yr point of view. But god do exist in other point of view. Since I am engineer, I can only give electromagnetic example.
Charge is related to electricity. It can be feel, can be measured with using simple instrument.
Electromagnetic is related to wireless. It cannot be feel, cannot be measured with using simple instrument. But u cannot say that it does not exist. It exist in another kind of dimension.
Same thing :-
God cannot appear in reality... cannot physical help... But u cannot say that it does not exist. It exist in a spirtual point of view. Using a different kind of measurement, it shows that it does change the world due to introduction of religion. -
Originally posted by ispyyy:
In most cases, 'freethinker' can be used interchangeably with 'atheist'.
[b]hmmm.... there is a difference between freethinker and atheism
Freethinker are people who form his or her ideas independently of authority especially on religious matter...
Atheism are people who dont believe in god...
According to wikipaedia,
"Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that beliefs should be formed on the basis of science and logical principles and not be comprised by authority, tradition, or any other dogma. The cognitive application of freethought is known as freethinking, and practitioners of freethought are known as freethinkers."
If you base your viewpoint on scientific evidence and logical principles, you are most likely to be an agnostic atheist. You accept on principle that perhaps there may be a god (though the god is a deistic god not theistic) but the probability is so low that you don't actually believe in one.
To quote Bertrand Russel,
As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think that I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because, when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods. -
It just a belief that varies from indiviual..
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But you missed out one thing - there is no evidence that 'spiritual help' exists.Originally posted by ispyyy:Therefore, there is some kinds of teaching called spiritual help that enable ones to break this mental barrier. For example,
when you are in pain, it reduces yr suffering,
when you face problem, it gives u strenght,
when you face fear, it gives u courage,
when you face death, it gives u the power to see beyond life and death,
and many many many things
Your argument seems to be that having an imaginary friend or false beliefs might make you happier. That's perhaps true for some people. For myself, I would rather have the truth.
The truth is more liberating than any fairy tale that anyone can make up.
This may not be relevant to many Singaporeans but I would make an analogy to belief in Santa Claus. Many children in the US believe in Santa Claus. Many parents view that belief as a symbol of innocence and they work hard to sustain that belief. They also try to hide it because they want to delay the sense of betrayal that their children feel when they find out that their parents were lying to them.
Which is better? Is it better for a child to believe that a magic jolly fat man comes down the chimney to deliver gifts? Or that your parents worked hard to get you a gift because they love you?
My friend, surely you must be joking! Spiritual help works better?
Of coz, spiritual help works much better than modern psychologic, medicine, code of laws and etc...
Therefore, it will be much a worry if there are less people who believe in god...
If you are sick, I hope you will go see a doctor rather than just pray that you will be cured. The world would be chaotic indeed if we did away with laws and relied on divine intervention for justice. Before modern science brought us a better understanding of mental illness, we used to think that the mentally ill were possessed by demons or satan.
The worry we face nowadays is that the world seems to be becoming MORE religious not less. Of course, I'm not saying that abolishing religion would solve the world's problems. We will still fight. We will still have wars. But I certainly hope we will kill one another for better reasons than because an ancient book said so.
You are an atheist then. All those religions you look at are mutually incompatible. In the three great monotheistic religions, the first commandment of God is:
I am a freethinker but I am not an athesim... I learnt teachings from all kinds of religion. I never practice them devotely. From their different kinds of teachings, I form my own code. That is me.
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. "
It seems that though you are agnostic about the Christian, Islamic and Hebrew god, you don't have enough belief to take that commandment seriously.
You look at religion only from a philosophical viewpoint and you decide for yourself what is right and wrong. I commend you for that.
Certainly, I do think there are things that we can learn from religious scripture. However, we should not attribute any divine inspiration to scripture. We should treat scripture as we would any piece of literature. We should use our ability to reason to evaluate its value so we can decide for ourselves what is right and wrong. -
The difference is that Ang Mo Kio actually exists. We have evidence that Ang Mo Kio exists. We can experience Ang Mo Kio for ourselves. Different people may experience Ang Mo Kio in different ways but ultimately there is overwhelming evidence that Ang Mo Kio exists.Originally posted by jljl:hhah almost like saying you are looking for a place within a town like Ang Mo Kio, u can't find it, therefore says it doesn't exist... that makes it so much easier to accept your state of loss; thus you declare it's better to wander around in the town in your own strength, hoping one day you'll become someone prominent there, or even be the 'name' of the town itself. Forgetting all about ....."who gave you the thoughts to seek in the first place? why is this 'place' so important to you in the first place?"
humility is acknowledging you are lost, courage is asking those who know the way, and then take that chance to try to see if they are telling you the truth. It u 'reject' the Truth after u have 'seen' it for yourself, at least that counts for something...
A more accurate analogy would be if you are looking for a place like Mount Olympus. We can't find it because it doesn't exist.
Your definition of humility is beating yourself down so you are forced to ask others who claim to know the way so you can be led around like sheep.
Arrogance is when Christians believe the whole universe, in all its splendor, was created just for them.
Arrogance is when Christians believe that whoever doesn't subscribe to their religion is damned to hell.
Arrogance is when Christians whine and complain that they are being persecuted when anyone points out their fallacies, while at the same time, preaching their beliefs to everyone.
Arrogance is when Christians believe that they are right, and everyone else is wrong when they have no evidence. "Believe us!" they say. "Not for any reason, but take it on faith."
When given a choice between faith and reason, give me reason any day. -
Only one deluded here is you, report to your God and wake Him up.Originally posted by jljl: frankly , from the above thoughts, it seems that the most deluded person is yourself.. but very often it is pple like you who eventually turn into the most zealous servants for God once you wake up from your self-worshiping grandious ideas. i look forward to that one day soon -
your reply is quite a common christian reply. you have to go back to your belief system, send them through thorough reasoning check using standard philosophical system and psychological errors, then you will see the light of knowledge.Originally posted by jljl:actually, u are not an atheist... but merely a 'stranger', because you haven't had the chance to encounter God
hhah almost like saying you are looking for a place within a town like Ang Mo Kio, u can't find it, therefore says it doesn't exist... that makes it so much easier to accept your state of loss; thus you declare it's better to wander around in the town in your own strength, hoping one day you'll become someone prominent there, or even be the 'name' of the town itself. Forgetting all about ....."who gave you the thoughts to seek in the first place? why is this 'place' so important to you in the first place?"
humility is acknowledging you are lost, courage is asking those who know the way, and then take that chance to try to see if they are telling you the truth. It u 'reject' the Truth after u have 'seen' it for yourself, at least that counts for something... -
your analogy of electromagnetic and god is not very strong. hope you can revise you choice of analogy it cause it may concvince christians and believers.Originally posted by ispyyy:3) hmmm... your statement is based on there is no god in yr point of view. But god do exist in other point of view. Since I am engineer, I can only give electromagnetic example.
Charge is related to electricity. It can be feel, can be measured with using simple instrument.
Electromagnetic is related to wireless. It cannot be feel, cannot be measured with using simple instrument. But u cannot say that it does not exist. It exist in another kind of dimension.
Same thing :-
God cannot appear in reality... cannot physical help... But u cannot say that it does not exist. It exist in a spirtual point of view. Using a different kind of measurement, it shows that it does change the world due to introduction of religion.
reasoning by analogy is a tricky one. many people uses it, even myself and i also use weak analogy sometimes. Therefore, be careful when seeing analogy arguments. -
You should explain why.Originally posted by january:your reply is quite a common christian reply. you have to go back to your belief system, send them through thorough reasoning check using standard philosophical system and psychological errors, then you will see the light of knowledge.
You suggest that he checks his reasoning. That implies that he has made some logical fallacies. Perhaps you should help point him in the right direction. -
IMHO, freethinker are very far from atheist. Atheist believe in no god, no afterlife and religion is not progressive entity to civilisation. free thinker does not have this beliefs and mainly is does not have a religion but they dun really in terms of that religion is holding back human progress.Originally posted by Phaze:In most cases, 'freethinker' can be used interchangeably with 'atheist'. -
i agree with you. But that does not mean that i just let believers be believers and non believers be non believers. I have to choose and decide whether i want to spread atheism message or not.Originally posted by soulwinner:It just a belief that varies from indiviual..
Frankly speaking, i only come to my forum and talk atheistic stuff once in a while. i wonder it more of a hobby or really a intention to spread atheism. generally speaking, i believe more atheist in the world is a good thing. -
Well, to me it's just a matter of definitions.Originally posted by january:IMHO, freethinker are very far from atheist. Atheist believe in no god, no afterlife and religion is not progressive entity to civilisation. free thinker does not have this beliefs and mainly is does not have a religion but they dun really in terms of that religion is holding back human progress.
The definition of freethought that I use is a worldview that is naturalistic and does not hold to religious dogma.
By that definition, I am a freethinker and an atheist. I am an atheist because I subscribe to freethought and there is no evidence for god or the supernatural.
However, if there was evidence that god did exist, I would be a theist.