how to we explain complexity?

• january

  18 Mar 07, 22:25

  For life complexity like cells structure, i try to explain in mathematics point of view.
  
  i once seen the discovery channel, it says that certain biochemical life forms form the particular form which has self reproduction effect. By evolution, these living cells become more complex.
  
  In maths, we see reproduction as permutation. 1 forms 2, 2 forms 4, and increases by multiplying 2 everytime. In fact, it can be factor of 3,5,8 or any bigger number. The point is that by power effect, permutation of things can go very large.
  
  Thus, when people are puzzled by the complexity of cells, and cell structures, they think that there are intelligent design.
  
  my point is, a single thing, by permutation, can form many things as time passes. therefore, i do not believe in intelligent design, but i think in life,
  
  complexity arise from simplicity by permutation
  
  i feel that reality, universe comes about by rules, casuality and reasons. There is no god actually.
  
  when the universe is infant stage in the past, there are astronomical rules in physics and string theory explain its cause and consequence.
  
  as earth is formed, and there atmosphere and earth environment changes, there are rules governing the cause and effect leading to ideal condition that give rise to biology life where they have reproductivity capability.
  
  up till now, everything is just cause and effect, following the rules things, without any god at all. as life form permutates, things get more and more variety, hence explaining the large amount of things we see today.
  
  As plants and animals, there are biological rules and cause and effect. simulataneoulsy, universe is still having cause and effect, earth is also having casuse and effect so everything is dynamic and connected.
  
  among animal, there is human, which is intelligent. by cause and effect, this intelligence is form and it increases by rules again. as human society develops and improves, there are social rules, psychological rules, that govern cause and effect.
  
  belief in god is also part and parcel of psychological rules and environment rules as people when they see the awe of nature, they naturally tend to believe that there is god behind it.
  
  as human, there are two rules that they follow. first, is that of a intelligent species rules which lead to technology, learning, culture. ther other rule is that as animal, we are still subjected to biological cause and effect like life and death.
  
  the development of truth and seeking of knowlegde by many academics is itself a cause and effect where people realize the importance of obtaining knowledge.
  
  i think truth is that there are many rules in the universe, in earth, in human society, in plants, animal life world.
  
  the catch is this, by finding the rules, like how atoms behave, how horse shoe crab blue blood is useful, why human believe in god, how planets and galaxies work, we can try to apply knowledge. truth and knowledge is absolute, however, the problem is that different people claims that their knowledge is the correct one, and the result is that our world and human is in constant flux of influenicng one another. If we pass wrong knowledge to each other, we will try to apply our beliefs and knowledge and fail to obtain the right benefits. hence, in order to seek right knowledge and make right decisions, i need to spread atheism which i claim is the right belief and right knowledge
• ironoxideman

  18 Mar 07, 23:11

  Originally posted by january:
  For life complexity like cells structure, i try to explain in mathematics point of view.
  
  i once seen the discovery channel, it says that certain biochemical life forms form the particular form which has self reproduction effect. By evolution, these living cells become more complex.
  
  In maths, we see reproduction as permutation. 1 forms 2, 2 forms 4, and increases by multiplying 2 everytime. In fact, it can be factor of 3,5,8 or any bigger number. The point is that by power effect, permutation of things can go very large.
  
  Thus, when people are puzzled by the complexity of cells, and cell structures, they think that there are intelligent design.
  
  my point is, a single thing, by permutation, can form many things as time passes. therefore, i do not believe in intelligent design, but i think in life,
  
  [b]complexity arise from simplicity by permutation
  
  i feel that reality, universe comes about by rules, casuality and reasons. There is no god actually.
  
  when the universe is infant stage in the past, there are astronomical rules in physics and string theory explain its cause and consequence.
  
  as earth is formed, and there atmosphere and earth environment changes, there are rules governing the cause and effect leading to ideal condition that give rise to biology life where they have reproductivity capability.
  
  up till now, everything is just cause and effect, following the rules things, without any god at all. as life form permutates, things get more and more variety, hence explaining the large amount of things we see today.
  
  As plants and animals, there are biological rules and cause and effect. simulataneoulsy, universe is still having cause and effect, earth is also having casuse and effect so everything is dynamic and connected.
  
  among animal, there is human, which is intelligent. by cause and effect, this intelligence is form and it increases by rules again. as human society develops and improves, there are social rules, psychological rules, that govern cause and effect.
  
  belief in god is also part and parcel of psychological rules and environment rules as people when they see the awe of nature, they naturally tend to believe that there is god behind it.
  
  as human, there are two rules that they follow. first, is that of a intelligent species rules which lead to technology, learning, culture. ther other rule is that as animal, we are still subjected to biological cause and effect like life and death.
  
  the development of truth and seeking of knowlegde by many academics is itself a cause and effect where people realize the importance of obtaining knowledge.
  
  i think truth is that there are many rules in the universe, in earth, in human society, in plants, animal life world.
  
  the catch is this, by finding the rules, like how atoms behave, how horse shoe crab blue blood is useful, why human believe in god, how planets and galaxies work, we can try to apply knowledge. truth and knowledge is absolute, however,[b] the problem is that different people claims that their knowledge is the correct one, and the result is that our world and human is in constant flux of influenicng one another. If we pass wrong knowledge to each other, we will try to apply our beliefs and knowledge and fail to obtain the right benefits. hence, in order to seek right knowledge and make right decisions, i need to spread atheism which i claim is the right belief and right knowledge[/b][/b]

  i find your post ironic. perhaps agnotism would be better suited for the pursuit of such truth. keep an open mind till the end no?
  
  with regard to causality, what i believe is the fact that anything exists at all is a mystery. complex rules are governed by simple ones, simple ones by even more basic ones, how far can this regression go?
• january

  18 Mar 07, 23:47

  Originally posted by ironoxideman:

  i find your post ironic. perhaps agnotism would be better suited for the pursuit of such truth. keep an open mind till the end no?
  
  with regard to causality, what i believe is the fact that anything exists at all is a mystery. complex rules are governed by simple ones, simple ones by even more basic ones, how far can this regression go?

  agnostism is itself a choice of belief, which may be wrong or right. does not mean that one is agnostic means its on a safe and correct side.
  the evidence points towards no god, although i noe all the people claim they have their evidence too.
  
  its not a matter of simple or complex rules, rules are just the way things happen in cause and effect. there are many rules, and by permutation leads to many rules and effects, hence you can see that our world is indeed large variety of things and events.
  
  why do i think that world operate on natural law? because all the evidence points to it, based on cause and effect.
  
  psychologists can explain to you the various cognitive bias that human is subjected to to explain various human behavior.
  
  bread baker will tell you that in order to create his wonderful bread, there are certain rules to carry out, certain steps.
  
  there are many things left unknown in the world and my explanation is simple. because there are so many rules and knowledge in the universe. Look we only have few billions of people on earth at the moment. Plus all the dead people in the past, i say we have only estimate few trillon people.
  
  among all these people, only a small percentage of people are knowledge seekers, and there is a lot of trial and error along the way. if you think trillion people is alot, it is not actually considering the complexity of things in universe from its distance betweent the universe, the small size of string theories and electrons, protons. plus all the permutation, its pretty never ending rules that result form all these things.
• january

  18 Mar 07, 23:52

  we natural law believers adopt natural law because we see that almost everything is lawful in action. they are guided by reasons and causality.
  
  from why your mother scold you, to why you father think you lie to him, to why the tree does not walk around. even the phenomenon why religion happens, and why are the terrorist in the world, there are cause and effect and lawfulness leading to their happening.
  
  in case you don't know there is a philosohy branch called the philosophy of religion and i think they are trying to study why people adopt religion and what are the various religions.