Deah according to Hebrew teaching
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Some time ago Breyton wrote in eternal hope that death is about ceasing to exist for the people who refused God's law and not about being tortured in hell for eternity.
I'm a Christian who is interested to find more information on what Breyton had written.
Is there somewhere in the Torah that explains what would become of people whose lives rejected the Lord? Is there hell in the Torah teaching? Would certain people be punished by ceasing to exist and another to spend eternal punishment in hell?
This is a sincere question in that I have no wish to mock or offend any belief.
Actually I've researched a little and found that Judaism acknowledge that each man has a soul which is eternal. If so why did Breyton wrote what he wrote? Does the punishment come some time after being physically dead?
Thank you.
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Could you describe to me who is this Breyton you're referring to? If it was this guy, then probably we can discuss, if time permits...
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Sorry If I wasn't very clear. Breytonhartge a forumer here in SGforums.
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Ooops I just read the sticky thread of 'the mark of the beast' and there Breyton wrote that Christian festivities and Sunday mass are actually the mark of the beast. Well I respect other people's belief but this is insane if not idiotic. But I realize that Breyton's interpretation of the scripture is not that of the official stand or interpretation of the official Judaism i.e, in that it was his own.
You know Christians also celebrate mass on Saturday...
And the Moslems go to the Mosque on Friday. Why didn't Breyton accuse them too?
And also the Buddhist and the Hindus...
So I guess I could not take this Breyton's opinions on a serious scale as they are rubbish imo.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Some time ago Breyton wrote in eternal hope that death is about ceasing to exist for the people who refused God's law and not about being tortured in hell for eternity.
I'm a Christian who is interested to find more information on what Breyton had written.
Is there somewhere in the Torah that explains what would become of people whose lives rejected the Lord? Is there hell in the Torah teaching? Would certain people be punished by ceasing to exist and another to spend eternal punishment in hell?
This is a sincere question in that I have no wish to mock or offend any belief.
Actually I've researched a little and found that Judaism acknowledge that each man has a soul which is eternal. If so why did Breyton wrote what he wrote? Does the punishment come some time after being physically dead?
Thank you.
he is very correct..most probably this breyton guy know what the bible is really teaching..
JC the man also said the dead will rtn to dust and is consicious of nothing. he also liken death to sleep.
as my earlier post about hell laso points to eternal punishment jus because a few decades of sin makes God unjust. since the bible makes no mention of an eternal spirit form that is consicious of anything after the spirit departs from the body. this also makes hell as true as santa claus.
ALL who does not serve THE God will not have the chance to live on forever as they already chose not to.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Ooops I just read the sticky thread of 'the mark of the beast' and there Breyton wrote that Christian festivities and Sunday mass are actually the mark of the beast. Well I respect other people's belief but this is insane if not idiotic. But I realize that Breyton's interpretation of the scripture is not that of the official stand or interpretation of the official Judaism i.e, in that it was his own.
You know Christians also celebrate mass on Saturday...
And the Moslems go to the Mosque on Friday. Why didn't Breyton accuse them too?
And also the Buddhist and the Hindus...
So I guess I could not take this Breyton's opinions on a serious scale as they are rubbish imo.
christian festivals nowadays, eg easter,xmas are very well known to have originated from pagans beliefs. again due to roman empire.
respect other beliefs are important as it leads to racial and religious harmony. HOWEVER, your own knowledge of your own religion is even more impt.
as in the bible, there is only 1 living God. all other gods are false. most likely this breyton guy makes no mention of other religions are bcuz he wanted to avoid offending others. or the other religions are of no concern to him/her since he already found God.
This breyton guy most probably knows more about God than most people here or anywhere else knows.
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Thanks domonkassyu could you give me a passage in the Torah or something that could validate the point of dead men being likened to sleep? I know [the concept]that the dead are not sleeping but they have ceased to exist and no longer aware of anything at all including themselves. They are no longer anything and could not be said to be anything except nothing at all for they are no longer something.
Otherwise there is no basis for believing that is in the Judaism teaching as far as I'm concern.
I'd really aprreciate it. I tried searching but found nothing. Anybody here familiar with the Torah?
Would the Messiah rise the dead from this state? or once a dead has ceased to exist he or she no longer is and will not be risen.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Ooops I just read the sticky thread of 'the mark of the beast' and there Breyton wrote that Christian festivities and Sunday mass are actually the mark of the beast. Well I respect other people's belief but this is insane if not idiotic. But I realize that Breyton's interpretation of the scripture is not that of the official stand or interpretation of the official Judaism i.e, in that it was his own.
You know Christians also celebrate mass on Saturday...
And the Moslems go to the Mosque on Friday. Why didn't Breyton accuse them too?
And also the Buddhist and the Hindus...
So I guess I could not take this Breyton's opinions on a serious scale as they are rubbish imo.
Officlal Judaism??. Rabbinic Judaism don't believe in Jesus or the New Testament "Brit Hadasah". BTW Breytonhartge believe in Jesus and the New testament. His beliefs are not rubbish, they are consistent with a type of Christianity that don't celebrate Christmas and Easter. If i am not wrong, like Judiasm, they celebrate the 7 feasts of the LORD. They also believe in the 613 law of Moses. I am not sure whether this 'Breton guy' also brit milah, unless u can inspect his KKJ u will not know. Maybe Breytonhartge can enlighten us more on the issue of brit milah and his type of christianity.
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Yes of course I know that Judaism doesn't recognise Jesus. what I meant was that Judaism doesn't tell you that Christian festivities are the mark of the beast. Or do they?
No one yet answer my question but revolves around my comment on Christian festivities...including the weekly Sunday mass. Christians also celebrate mass on Saturday.
Someone could provide me with an answer on the dead acccording to Judaism?
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Ooops double post
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Originally posted by M&P:
Yes of course I know that Judaism doesn't recognise Jesus. what I meant was that Judaism doesn't tell you that Christian festivities are the mark of the beast. Or do they?
Judaism does not believe in the NT or the mark of the beast. The comment that Christian festivities are mark of the beast is not from Judaism becos Judaism in the first place don't believe in the existence of the beast. This comment that Christian festivities are mark of the beast, is made by breytonhartge in the capacity of a christian and a believer in Jesus. There are many sects and branches within Christianity that view each other as deviant. e.g The JW is considered a cult by most Christians. Protestant will not agree with RC etc.
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Originally posted by M&P:
Someone could provide me with an answer on the dead acccording to Judaism?
In Judaism, when a person dies, he sleep. There is no "Hell" like those in Christianity, where unbelievers enjoy eternal BBQ. Both believers and non believers will not go to heaven when they die, they just sleep or rest until the end of the age.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Thanks domonkassyu could you give me a passage in the Torah or something that could validate the point of dead men being likened to sleep? I know [the concept]that the dead are not sleeping but they have ceased to exist and no longer aware of anything at all including themselves. They are no longer anything and could not be said to be anything except nothing at all for they are no longer something.
Otherwise there is no basis for believing that is in the Judaism teaching as far as I'm concern.
I'd really aprreciate it. I tried searching but found nothing. Anybody here familiar with the Torah?
Would the Messiah rise the dead from this state? or once a dead has ceased to exist he or she no longer is and will not be risen.
In the book of Deuteronomy 31:16
16 And the LORD said to Moses: “Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
This is from the Torah.
Take a wider approach, and you will read in the Tenakh:
Job 7:21
21 Why then do You not pardon my transgression,
And take away my iniquity?
For now I will lie down in the dust,
And You will seek me diligently,
But I will no longer be.”Job 14:12
12 So man lies down and does not rise.
Till the heavens are no more,
They will not awake
Nor be roused from their sleep.Jeremiah 51:39
39 In their excitement I will prepare their feasts;
I will make them drunk,
That they may rejoice,
And sleep a perpetual sleep
And not awake,” says the LORD.Daniel 12:2
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O LORD my God;Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep the sleep of death;The whole thing about Maschiach is that He died, but rose again and death could have no hold on Him because He did not sin.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Ooops I just read the sticky thread of 'the mark of the beast' and there Breyton wrote that Christian festivities and Sunday mass are actually the mark of the beast. Well I respect other people's belief but this is insane if not idiotic. But I realize that Breyton's interpretation of the scripture is not that of the official stand or interpretation of the official Judaism i.e, in that it was his own.
You know Christians also celebrate mass on Saturday...
And the Moslems go to the Mosque on Friday. Why didn't Breyton accuse them too?
And also the Buddhist and the Hindus...
So I guess I could not take this Breyton's opinions on a serious scale as they are rubbish imo.
MP,
I think you need to slow down a little bit. The article I posted on the mark of the beast is written by David B Loughran. I put it there because I thought that it provided food for thought as well as a different interpretation to the conventional "obvious" view that mainstream christianity holds. That said, I also hold differing views on when our Shabbat should be. Normal Judaism says sundown friday to sundown sat, but can we be sure that the seven day cycle that we are keeping now runs uninterrupted since the beginning of time, since it is the romans who fixed our current calendar, it does become a bit suspicious because if we do some digging, we find that the romans also previously kept 8 or 10 day weeks and that saturday was actually the first day of the week and not the seventh. Many things to ponder.
Take sometime to read the article again.
A few questions, who makes what official and just because it is official, does it make it right? This is the whole trap of religion.
Becoming a disciple of Yahweh/Yeshua is more than just religion, it is born through personal relationship. How can you have relationship with someone and then not know His ways?
I do not want to be right in my own eyes, it really means nothing in the end. I want to be right according to what Yahweh says is right.
In regards to Brit Milah, having it done or not having it done is not the important point because if you read both the Tenakh and the Brit Chadashah, Yahweh makes a point of being FIRST circumcised in the heart. If you are not, does being circumcised in the flesh gain you anything?
See Romans 2:25-29... also 1 Cor 7:19... Galatians 6:15... Colossians 2:11
Catch you soon!
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Thank you that's a whole lot of verses. I just realized that the Torah is actually the old testament of the Christians. Silly me. I didn't know.
So to Judaism the dead shall sleep and be risen at the end of time when the Messiah would come. And the risen dead shall either recieve eternal life or eternal condemnation.
I see that Messiah was risen straight away not awaiting the end of time because He did not sin.
So there is no chance even to good people or people of God's to escape this 'sleep' of death and be risen or receive eternal life right away and hence not awaiting the end of time. Even when men try to live a holy life?
In the new testament(since Breyton the mod is a Christian and this is probably a Christian forum aswell) Jesus spoke that the Kingdom of death shall not prevail against His Kingdom. Would this mean that puttting faith in Jesus allow a man to escape this sleep of death immediately? Or must one wait for the end of time as well?
Thank you Breyton. Sorry if I were being too harsh in words. I may have judged too quickly. I apologize.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
So there is no chance even to good people or people of God's to escape this 'sleep' of death and be risen or receive eternal life right away and hence not awaiting the end of time. Even when men try to live a holy life?
In the new testament(since Breyton the mod is a Christian and this is probably a Christian forum aswell) Jesus spoke that the Kingdom of death shall not prevail against His Kingdom. Would this mean that puttting faith in Jesus allow a man to escape this sleep of death immediately? Or must one wait for the end of time as well?
Thank you Breyton. Sorry if I were being too harsh in words. I may have judged too quickly. I apologize.
Hi MP,
I think that from memory, there were only two men who escaped this sleep of death, Enoch and Elijah. So you never know, there is always a chance... : )
Because of our sin and the corruption that follows, we will just have to wait and be asleep (mho). But then death is not so bad either, not when we know our promised salvation is life with Yeshua and Yahweh.
Hey, no problems, we are all still learning and still searching.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Hi MP,
I think that from memory, there were only two men who escaped this sleep of death, Enoch and Elijah. So you never know, there is always a chance... : )
Because of our sin and the corruption that follows, we will just have to wait and be asleep (mho). But then death is not so bad either, not when we know our promised salvation is life with Yeshua and Yahweh.
Hey, no problems, we are all still learning and still searching.
Hmmm slim chance :D. It's not cool of not being aware of ourselves or time or anything even of God.