What the christians misunderstand about faith in Jesus...
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??? don't like what?Originally posted by jay_rocks:still, i dun like it. blame roman catholic church and usa. they are the culprit and the devil
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i spell it out. C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-S. too many craps come out from their mouthOriginally posted by M©+square:??? don't like what? -
Then you shouldn't be in here in the first place?Originally posted by jay_rocks:i spell it out. C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-S. too many craps come out from their mouth
And you shouldn't be reading these stuff secondly.
And you shouldn't even want to click into a christian thread if you don't like Christians!
Are you in a mess? Or you're starting a flame-war?
Cheers -
1 word, wotchever.Originally posted by M©+square:Then you shouldn't be in here in the first place?
And you shouldn't be reading these stuff secondly.
And you shouldn't even want to click into a christian thread if you don't like Christians!
Are you in a mess? Or you're starting a flame-war?
Cheers . just happened so i click onto this thread ma, aiya, forget it. -
Ok.Originally posted by jay_rocks:1 word, wotchever. . just happened so i click onto this thread ma, aiya, forget it.
wadever.
Cheers! -
kns.Originally posted by M©+square:Ok.
wadever.
Cheers! -
Oh... ok ok I go have a look.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Hi Bontakun
See also this thread...
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=202572
Welcome to DT and I hope you will drop by often, feel free to ask questions and debate topics... Shalom!
I may ask some questions in the future, coz I am curious about it. Though now nth yet comes to my mind at the moment, I can promise you that what I ask, I will take heart to understand and reflect upon it. -
Brother,Originally posted by breytonhartge:this is not the christian mindset, it has been the mindset since adam and eve ever since hasatan tricked them... it is the mindset of all humanity... so hence this is misleading...
but also another question here:
what are we relying on Yeshua's righteousness and perfecteness to do for us?
think I had answer you in the other thread...Philippians 2:13-13Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
rely of Yeshua's righteousness and perfectness for everything
1) To be able to approach the throne of grace
2) To find the will to do the works as required by YHWH
3) To find the gace to obey the words of YHWH
4) To find the forgive when we fail
5) .... etc
Think those that knows me, know my stand in this
Everything is In Him, through Him, from Him, by Him, Its all about Him and none about me.
* Note : This is not about salvation, the price for that yeshua had already fully and completely paid
* Note : If its not done in Yeshua and through faith in Him, we do (that is done out of our own effort) will not be acceptable before YHWH, for no offerings that is spotted or with blemishes will be acceptable as an offering to YHWH. For only Yeshua is perfect and spotless and without any blemish.
peace.
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hee hee... me don't have... ok... me go find this book and come back to you, (after I found and read it) ok?Originally posted by M©+square:Have you read Charles G. Finney teaching on these topics?
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but it is true, the roman catholic church even admit it in writing...Originally posted by jay_rocks:still, i dun like it. blame roman catholic church and usa. they are the culprit and the devil -
vince ah, all on the net... just google it... but trust me so much to read...Originally posted by vince69:hee hee... me don't have... ok... me go find this book and come back to you, (after I found and read it) ok? -
Vince I am glad that you brought this point up...Originally posted by vince69:Brey, my brother
Salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. period.
quote:
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Philippians 2 : 12-13
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
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[*Note : the preceeding verses are on imitating Yeshuah's Humility]
[verse 14-18 about doing everything without complaining or arguing, and be a light to this world]
Here, we need to read both verse 12 and 13 together for they are of the same sentence. yes, verse 12 Paul did says and even exhort the believers to continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, but also note that in verse 13, he continue to remind us, its not our own effort or ability, its God who works in us, both to will and to act according to His good purpose.
(so none of us can boast that its our own effort, but in thanks giving and graditude, praise and worship God)
let me back track a bit...
In Genesis 3, we read about the fall of Adam and Chava(Eve), we know from Genesis, that Hasham made man in HIS image. Thus when man sinned, he obscured the glory of Hashem.
What is the temptation of the serpent? "You will be like God."
However, it is the purpose of man to reveal the Glory of Hashem, and not to be Hashem. The temptation by the serpent here is very subtle. Instead of man revealing Hashem, the serpent tempts man to reveal himself as Hashem.
This temptation was too much for Adam and Chava (Eve) to resist as they declared themselves to be "like Hashem" by eating the forbidden fruit.
Thus the end result of their disobedience was to obscure the Glory of Hashem, they no longer revealed the Glory of Hashem. Because they were to be teh authority over all creation, the Glory of Hashem in creation was diminished and obscured.
continued... -
really a lot of readings ....Originally posted by breytonhartge:vince ah, all on the net... just google it... but trust me so much to read... 
(162 articles)
do a url here, so can go back to read
http://articles.christiansunite.com/preacher96-1.shtml
Showing 1 to 20 of 162 articles.
MC.. thanks...Originally posted by breytonhartge:wah... MC so many things to read... my eyes are hurting... -
What is Hashem's response to this disobedience? He sets out to restore mankind back to the original model.
Thus Yeshua is called the 'Last Adam' because He is what Adam was supposed to be. The revelation of Hashem's glory in human form. In Messiah, we are part of this master plan, we are part of Yahweh's craftsmanship.
So why did I bring all this up? To set the stage...
When Yahweh exiled Adam and Chava form the garden, He was doing an act of mercy. How you may ask?
If they had been left in the garden, they would have had the opportunity to partake of the fruit of the tree of life. Note they were not created immortal, but immortality was within their grasp. Had they done so in their fallen state, they would have been consigned to an immortal existence in rebellion against Hashem. Like hasatan, they would remain forever unredeemable. An eternal life of endless death.
We like Adam and Chava are in exile from paradise.
Because Adam lived his life in exile, he having tasted of the fruit of the garden and knowing what he was missing, there is a longing in his heart, as such we also have a desire we cannot wuite put our finger on, we thirst for water we have never tasted. We long for fruit we have never eaten.... we hunger and thirst for the persence of Yahweh. We are forever looking for the way back to eden... -
you found the site i was talking about... happy reading...Originally posted by vince69:really a lot of readings .... (162 articles)
do a url here, so can go back to read
http://articles.christiansunite.com/preacher96-1.shtml
Showing 1 to 20 of 162 articles. -
what is this way back to eden? What is this way back to the tree of life? It is in Yeshua. He has found teh way past teh flaming sword and between the Cherubim. The torah calls this the "Way of the Tree of Life". The way of the tree of life entails passing between these chrubim, yet who can go there?
If we are to enter back into the garden and taste of immortality, we must have someone make the way for us. This is one of the meanings of the rending of the curtain in the temple. Yeshua made a way between the cherubim. He is " the Way, the truth and the life."
Thus we can claim as in hebrews 10:19-20... we have ocnfidence to endter the holy place by the blood of Yeshua, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil... -
Salvation by faith in Yeshua is but the beginning of the journey. A journey of reconciliation and becoming part of the commonwealth of Israel.
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If we read carefully, the new covenant promise was made to the houses of Israel and Judah, not to the gentiles. Unless gentiles choose to follow the God of Israel, they have no part in the covenant, new or old.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Salvation by faith in Yeshua is but the beginning of the journey. A journey of reconciliation and becoming part of the commonwealth of Israel.
Thus, when we have faith in Yeshua as our Saviour, it marks the beginning of our journey back towards God and His ways ordained from ancient times.
Through Yeshua, we are now physically and spiritually part of Israel and have the same rights to His promises as His firstborn Israel. The condition is that we follow Him and His ways as He set them out in the Torah, not following the religion of man and man's own interpretations of the Torah and New Testament, which was what Paul (Shaul) was trying to explain in his writings.
Unless Christians come to grips with the realization that Yeshua was a Jew and walked the earth as a Jew and followed every single commandment in the Torah (not just the 10 commandments) and we are commanded by Him to follow in His footsteps (be His disciples), they cannot fully grasp the meaning of repentance and reconciliation to God. We also cannot know who Yeshua is and the full extent of what He has done for us and why.
The God of Yeshua is the God of Israel, the Jewish people, and He is the God Christians claim to be worshipping. Take the Jew out of Yeshua and you would not have a Saviour or Messiah. He has reconciled us to the God of Israel, so how can we cut Israel out of the equation?
It is essential for believers to go back to the roots of our faith to fully understand Who we are worshipping, what is considered sin in God's eyes and therefore what we need to repent from.
Yeshua has brought us redemption from the penalty of sin which is eternal death and given us the right to eternal life. The Torah (God's instructions for man) teaches us how to be live pleasing in God sight. Take one away from the other and we would at best have only half the picture. -
Yeshua was a Jew and walked the earth as a Jew and followed every single commandment in the Torah
Shalom
Hmmm... interesting... I had always thought that Yeshua exceeded thye Torah, in that He fulfilled every requirements and laws of YHWH (including those not in the Torah) and not only that, fulfilled them exceedingly, completely and perfectly. -
Shalom shalom! Yeshua exceeded the Torah in that He not only kept the letter but also the spirit of the Torah. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "including those not in the Torah"... could you please clarify? Thanks!Originally posted by vince69:Shalom
Hmmm... interesting... I had always thought that Yeshua exceeded thye Torah, in that He fulfilled every requirements and laws of YHWH (including those not in the Torah) and not only that, fulfilled them exceedingly, completely and perfectly. -
like those in the "grey area" not covered in in the Torah (ie. the letter), which like you said have to be based on the spirit of the Torah.Originally posted by Yaffa:Shalom shalom! Yeshua exceeded the Torah in that He not only kept the letter but also the spirit of the Torah. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "including those not in the Torah"... could you please clarify? Thanks!
(my impression is that Yeshua being from YHWH will be able to understand & interpret the Torah better and more comprehensive & accurate than anyone else) -
Hmmmm, what grey areas do you mean, out of curiosity?Originally posted by vince69:like those in the "grey area" not covered in in the Torah (ie. the letter), which like you said have to be based on the spirit of the Torah.
(my impression is that Yeshua being from YHWH will be able to understand & interpret the Torah better and more comprehensive & accurate than anyone else) -
Originally posted by Yaffa:Hmmmm, what grey areas do you mean, out of curiosity?
To be honest, I have not study the Torah before, so I also cannot think of any, just thinking that the letters in the Torah is finite (physically), and situations out here is so 'unpredictable' and varies so much, there will be places where the letters did not specifically spelt out (thus grey area)
Thus the only way is to do the right thing according to the spirit behind the letters.
anyway, nice chatting with you... need to sleep, did not sleep for the whole of last night, hope to chat with you again... -
Oh my, not meaning to be nosy, but why didn't you sleep?? Have a good rest tonight then! Laila tov v'lehitraot b'karov (goodnight and see you again soon)!Originally posted by vince69:
To be honest, I have not study the Torah before, so I also cannot think of any, just thinking that the letters in the Torah is finite (physically), and situations out here is so 'unpredictable' and varies so much, there will be places where the letters did not specifically spelt out (thus grey area)
Thus the only way is to do the right thing according to the spirit behind the letters.
anyway, nice chatting with you... need to sleep, did not sleep for the whole of last night, hope to chat with you again... -
Its ok, Thanks for your concern, my daughter is not feeling well, so have to stay up all night to take care of her (at the children hospital), she is better now, and resting at home.Originally posted by Yaffa:Oh my, not meaning to be nosy, but why didn't you sleep?? Have a good rest tonight then! Laila tov v'lehitraot b'karov (goodnight and see you again soon)!