Purpose of this forum
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Hi all, i have started this first bowling forum for every bowlers in singapore. I am a very passionate bowler, and from here, i wish to welcome all bowlers from all walks of life, be it you are just a beginer or a pro. You can post your questions of anything about bowling here, or simply just post anything regarding bowling that you find interesting to share. i will also start a "Buy/Sell" section for all that have bowling equipments to buy or sell. So guys do visit this forum often!!
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Congrats.....enginboi.
Hope to see more sincere bowlers drop in here and exchange information.
May i suggest those who consider themselves EXPERIENCE, tone down when trying to share, coz readers can misconstrued your mssg. and think that you are being a "How Lien", share and leave it to the readers to decide if they like to take your advise or opinions, do not insist. This way, it will make ppl be more at ease and avoid unnecessary disputes.
Take it that as a bowler in Singapore, we all have a part to play and nurture a good and respected bowling forum.
As for those new to bowling, may i suggest that try to read up to find answers, do not anyhow SHOOT.......Be humble to ask your questions politely, nobody owe you an answer.
Best Wishes to All -
Let's keep it friendly, informative, and helpful.
Cheers.
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warmest welcome to spook and harmzuay, hope you guys can drop in more often, and perhaps tell your fellow bowlers to come and participate in this forum to make it a success. i really hope that this forum can be as imformative as possible, so that the standards of bowling in singapore can improve, especially to force pro shops operators to improve and not think every bowler is so easy to cheat and bullshit.
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U've got ambitioned....Good 4 U, its not easy to influence the Pro-Shop Operators, Centres etc.
Unless we(majoirity bowlers) willing to pay"Professional" fees, how many will be willing to upgrade the skills & knowldege?
They are merely sole proprietors whose concerns about their livelyhood or even survival, where got time for bolwers high expectation. Not forgetting the centres owners, do they really keep their lanes at tip-top condition?
Bowlers are impatient lot, want maximum results, minimum hard work.
Sounds familiar?
Only a handful like you, whom the passion is beyond quick results and demands professional attention.
You may opt to disagree with what i say and think that i am pessimistic, which i'm not too sure now....Hahahahaa
Well, its not easy, and hopefully we can all grow from here, what you posted on the ball buying guide is GOOD information.
Those who read, please use it wisely as a tool, not as a weapon (if you know what i meant) while approaching any proshop operators.
Cheers. -
i have to agree with your observation, in fact i observe some of the pro shop owner are pretty outdated and some of them are even unskilled and unprofessional. To them is 1 ball mapping fits all. sigh. But we have to be fair to the bowlers too, bowlers pay as much as $365 for a ball, only to be ruined by the unskilled pro shop. So in order for this industry to thrive, it is either they improve or they get out of this trade. otherwise why do they call themselves pro shops for??Originally posted by Spook:U've got ambitioned....Good 4 U, its not easy to influence the Pro-Shop Operators, Centres etc.
Unless we(majoirity bowlers) willing to pay"Professional" fees, how many will be willing to upgrade the skills & knowldege?
They are merely sole proprietors whose concerns about their livelyhood or even survival, where got time for bolwers high expectation. Not forgetting the centres owners, do they really keep their lanes at tip-top condition?
Bowlers are impatient lot, want maximum results, minimum hard work.
Sounds familiar?
Only a handful like you, whom the passion is beyond quick results and demands professional attention.
You may opt to disagree with what i say and think that i am pessimistic, which i'm not too sure now....Hahahahaa
Well, its not easy, and hopefully we can all grow from here, what you posted on the ball buying guide is GOOD information.
Those who read, please use it wisely as a tool, not as a weapon (if you know what i meant) while approaching any proshop operators.
Cheers. -
Pro-shop owners on,y older than those HP or LAN shop ah bengs usually..
Can we have a topic saying best bowling lanes/ lowest bowling rate?
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you can just start any topic regarding bowling, please feel free, dun need to hesitate, but since you ask, i start for you laOriginally posted by 105090:Pro-shop owners on,y older than those HP or LAN shop ah bengs usually..
Can we have a topic saying best bowling lanes/ lowest bowling rate? -
Originally posted by enginboi:Originally posted by enginboi:warmest welcome to spook and harmzuay, hope you guys can drop in more often, and perhaps tell your fellow bowlers to come and participate in this forum to make it a success. i really hope that this forum can be as imformative as possible, so that the standards of bowling in singapore can improve, especially to force pro shops operators to improve and not think every bowler is so easy to cheat and bullshit.
have to agree with your observation, in fact alot of pro shop owner cant even speak proper english, let alone understand about ball dynamics and drilling, in fact alot is in this line because they can't find job elsewhere. To them is 1 ball mapping fits all. sigh. But we have to be fair to the bowlers too, bowlers pay as much as $365 for a ball, only to be ruined by the unskilled pro shop. So in order for this industry to thrive, it is either they improve or they get out of this trade. otherwise why do they call themselves pro shops for??
Sorri to hear tat u've been cheated & bullshited by pro shop operators.
Btw, ur comments r truly hurting & unresonable men.....oh, moderator.
So, tis forums is created to make such urgly comments to attack pro shop owners??? Then, Y waste time. It takes one themselves to make such comments abt others. Grown up lah........Y blame others but urself??? Wat do u know abt ball dynamics & drilling??? Y dun u enlighten me???
However, u got to be fair to those who takes prides in providing professional service to bowlers as well. Have u ever wonder wat kind of bowlers tat pro shop operators r facing everyday??? I dun tin u wanna to know. Best u run a pro shop urself & tell me.
Ur one-stone kills all the birds does not goes with me.....men. Its only ur one-sided comments....I guess u should keep those urgly & unfairly comments to urself. Since u say tis forums is for all passionate bowlers(e.g. urself) to share & learn...then I think u shouldn't have even make tis comments in the first place.
Perherp, u r too smart to be here.......
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Originally posted by Armadillo:
well, i am sure i am not the only one here that feel a lot of pro shops in singapore are not up to standard. Mayb you feel very strongly about your own pro shops, or may you are a pro shop operator yourself, who knows. I am not saying all pro shops in singapore are bad and not professional, i know a few good ones. but the rest are simply atrocious. Some even appoint newbies that dunno much as assistant ball drillers. I am just trying to say, Pro shop is a profession, so we should always ask for better standards when they are not met. And please, i say once again, i did not mean all pro shops are bad. I just asking people to open their eyes when they wan to make purchase at pro shops, because not all pro shops are good!!!!!
[b]Sorri to hear tat u've been cheated & bullshited by pro shop operators.
Btw, ur comments r truly hurting & unresonable men.....oh, moderator.
So, tis forums is created to make such urgly comments to attack pro shop owners??? Then, Y waste time. It takes one themselves to make such comments abt others. Grown up lah........Y blame others but urself??? Wat do u know abt ball dynamics & drilling??? Y dun u enlighten me???
However, u got to be fair to those who takes prides in providing professional service to bowlers as well. Have u ever wonder wat kind of bowlers tat pro shop operators r facing everyday??? I dun tin u wanna to know. Best u run a pro shop urself & tell me.
Ur one-stone kills all the birds does not goes with me.....men. Its only ur one-sided comments....I guess u should keep those urgly & unfairly comments to urself. Since u say tis forums is for all passionate bowlers(e.g. urself) to share & learn...then I think u shouldn't have even make tis comments in the first place.
Perherp, u r too smart to be here....... -
y blame others but myself?? when i get my first performance and had little clue about bowling ball, and the pro shop operator sell me a "pin in" ball to play hook, just because he is clearing stock for this ball. so i should blame myself for this?? And for your info this pro shop is number 2 in sales in singapore and is very reputable. And i am not blaming anyone, i just hoping the newbies wont follow my footstep and waste money. Well, i am not a ball expert, and i nv say i am, the ones that should be expert should be those pro shop operators, however alot of these pro shops are not. but i have enough knowledge of balls for my own good. And the worst part is alot of them are very profit driven, if you dun know, one of the top 2 pro shop in singapore actually cut finger inserts into half, so that they can use it as 2 finger inserts.Originally posted by Armadillo:So, tis forums is created to make such urgly comments to attack pro shop owners??? Then, Y waste time. It takes one themselves to make such comments abt others. Grown up lah........Y blame others but urself??? Wat do u know abt ball dynamics & drilling??? Y dun u enlighten me???
wat you are saying here is very unfair to most bowlers. Because most prob they will start off like me....with little knowledge, hoping to improve their bowling by buying performance ball, and right here wat you are saying is....even if you get cheated by these "professionals", you should only blame yourself for being stupid?? Please, you grow up!!! -
Ur earlier does not mentioned anything or single out any pro shop which is bad......wat u claimed is tat our local pro shop is of no standard, mostly r old man with no proper education & does not speak good english.....etc. Now u seem contradicting to wat u said earlier.Originally posted by enginboi:[b]
well, i am sure i am not the only one here that feel a lot of pro shops in singapore are not up to standard. Mayb you feel very strongly about your own pro shops, or may you are a pro shop operator yourself, who knows. I am not saying all pro shops in singapore are bad and not professional, i know a few good ones. but the rest are simply atrocious. Some even appoint newbies that dunno much as assistant ball drillers. I am just trying to say, Pro shop is a profession, so we should always ask for better standards when they are not met. And please, i say once again, i did not mean all pro shops are bad. I just asking people to open their eyes when they wan to make purchase at pro shops, because not all pro shops are good!!!!!
I dun mean to create any confrontation but I juz feel tat u would have did it in a more diplomatic way of sharing your experiences regardless whether it is gd or a bad one. I've been to many pro shop & I dun see any such problem.
I seen bowlers/customer walks into a pro shop refuse to listen to advise insisting their way, gave incorrect information abt their game. What happen next, they return & insist a refund claiming the ball was drilled wrongly....Next a check on the bowler's skill level......the poor guy can't even release the ball correctly. But who's fault??? Driller right??? Again, if a bowler cannot score well, he blame who??? driller, ball, lane, oiling pattern & everbody but themselves.......
Let me ask, since U want high standard ball driller/Coaches, R u willing to pay higher standard profession fee??? We, Singaporean only know evrything is expensive......now tell me where I can find a pro shop here is cheap & of high standard? -
Me??? I've grown to be a certified 200+ average bowler over hundred of games with SBF for the last 5 years...good luck!!!Originally posted by enginboi:y blame others but myself?? when i get my first performance and had little clue about bowling ball, and the pro shop operator sell me a "pin in" ball to play hook, just because he is clearing stock for this ball.
When u make ur first purchases, I believe u have gone for a entry level reactive ball. This ball r of higher RG & r meant to hook less tats Y pin in. But tat doesn't this ball can't hook...jus use it on a drier lane cond......tats e purpose of the ball. Tats y it is very important to inform/relate your intention clearly to the pro shop. Should u have further doubts, then u should get a 2nd opinions or look out for more information from e internet
so i should blame myself for this?? Yes, I think u r partly to be blame for being too impulsive. I believed in making some research b4 any purchase. Should the ball dun meet my initial requirement, I blame myself for making the wrong decision. Btw, most bowling ball purchases r usually kind of trial & errors.There's no garantee
And for your info this pro shop is number 2 in sales in singapore and is very reputable. How do u know they r nos 2 in sales in singapore??? Did they show u their annual sales report??? And from who u understand they r very reputable??? Who dare locally claimed they r nos 1 or 2 in terms of sales & reputation???
And i am not blaming anyone, i just hoping the newbies wont follow my footstep and waste money. Understand, but your message was mis-leading??? Mostly, your discussion were making urgly comments abt the pro shop standard here.Instead, u r scaring the newbies away from the game???
Well, i am not a ball expert, and i nv say i am, Ya, Can see tat. the ones that should be expert should be those pro shop operators, however alot of these pro shops are not. Again, how do you know they r not knowledgable enough to advise bowlers??? Tell me how you judge.but i have enough knowledge of balls for my own good. Congrat, so you should be making less wrong decision in your furture purchases. But y make the mistake when making your 1st purchase??? Bcos u r very new to the game/product??? So when u make a mistake bcos of this, u get angry with a lot of the pro shops???
And the worst part is alot of them are very profit driven, Regardless of trades or business, they r juz making a living to meets end needs. Nobody runs a non-profit pro shop out of being passionate to the game. Besides, if u were to compare our local selling price to US, we r probably slightly cheaper. We dun see them complaining???
if you dun know, one of the top 2 pro shop in singapore actually cut finger inserts into half, so that they can use it as 2 finger inserts. Do you think u will cut the finger inserts into half to save cost if you rank yourself the top 2 pro shop in Singapore??? So, I guess they r probably not......
wat you are saying here is very unfair to most bowlers. Because most prob they will start off like me....with little knowledge, hoping to improve their bowling by buying performance ball, and right here wat you are saying is....even if you get cheated by these "professionals", you should only blame yourself for being stupid?? Like everybody, I make my first purchases with the entry level ball, pin-in & looks like stock clearing ball & wat have u......it is only this ball tat give me the first opportunity to improve my game. When I dun get my ball to hook, I juz work harder to make it hook tats all. I dun scream at others when it dun work for me. Its the bowler not the ball.
Please, you grow up!!! -
no, i am not a unreasonable person, in the scenario that you mentioned, it is not the ball driller's fault, i am not sayng there are no bad customers. And as in any other business, bad customers are inevitable. But i really dunno wat is your pt, i am right here talking about alot of pro shops not up to standard in terms of knowledge, not wat kinda nasty customers pro shop operators face. That is part of business!!!! unless you telling me that because the pro shops got bad customers so the ball driller dont need to be updated in skills??Originally posted by Armadillo:Ur earlier does not mentioned anything or single out any pro shop which is bad......wat u claimed is tat our local pro shop is of no standard, mostly r old man with no proper education & does not speak good english.....etc. Now u seem contradicting to wat u said earlier.
I dun mean to create any confrontation but I juz feel tat u would have did it in a more diplomatic way of sharing your experiences regardless whether it is gd or a bad one. I've been to many pro shop & I dun see any such problem.
I seen bowlers/customer walks into a pro shop refuse to listen to advise insisting their way, gave incorrect information abt their game. What happen next, they return & insist a refund claiming the ball was drilled wrongly....Next a check on the bowler's skill level......the poor guy can't even release the ball correctly. But who's fault??? Driller right??? Again, if a bowler cannot score well, he blame who??? driller, ball, lane, oiling pattern & everbody but themselves.......
Let me ask, since U want high standard ball driller/Coaches, R u willing to pay higher standard profession fee??? We, Singaporean only know evrything is expensive......now tell me where I can find a pro shop here is cheap & of high standard?
I dun give a damn wat kinda bad customers pro shop face...you open restaurant you will get nasty customers, you sell handphone you will get bad customers, in fact in any business you have bad customers, so wat is the point you are trying to prove???
Who i am trying to help here are good customers that is looking to improve their bowling, yet getting some bullshit from these unskilled drillers. Nobody cares wat happen when pro shops meet nasty customers, wat i care is when i require the professional skills such as advance ball drilling, is the driller capable of giving me that? and yes, i do know a pro shop that is really knowledgeable yet affordable. but i am not going to tell you where. I cant speak for everyone, but for me, yes, i am definitely willing to pay for a higher price to get more professional service. My reasoning is this, is it cheaper to pay slightly more for a ball that works, or to buy a few ball that dun work?? you should know better -
if "alot" means "all" the local pro shops to you, then perhaps you should attend eng class. So how am i contradicting??? "alot" in english can be refered to as 'numerous', 'many', 'plenty'. but it surely dun mean "All", except in 'Armadillo dictionary' of cos.Originally posted by Armadillo:Ur earlier does not mentioned anything or single out any pro shop which is bad......wat u claimed is tat our local pro shop is of no standard, mostly r old man with no proper education & does not speak good english.....etc. Now u seem contradicting to wat u said earlier.
So i repeat again, i said alot of pro shops are of no standards, not "ALL" -
When u make ur first purchases, I believe u have gone for a entry level reactive ball. This ball r of higher RG & r meant to hook less tats Y pin in. But tat doesn't this ball can't hook...jus use it on a drier lane cond......tats e purpose of the ball. Tats y it is very important to inform/relate your intention clearly to the pro shop. Should u have further doubts, then u should get a 2nd opinions or look out for more information from e internet
No, in this case, i bought "rock pearl" from columbia, which is a high performance ball. A pin in ball is usually used for spinners, or for very specialised drilling for hook bowling, it is definitely not recommended for a beginner learn how to hook, cos it never will!!! It is extremely difficult to map a "pin-in" ball to hook for a beginner, espcially when his rpm is low. so please, as a good bowler yourself, you should know a ball driller should nv sell a "pin-in" ball to a beginner that is learning to hook. and my intention at that time was not to get a ball that hooks only on dry lane, so wat makes you think it is justified for him to sell me that ball when he clearly know i am a beginner learning how to hook???
so i should blame myself for this?? Yes, I think u r partly to be blame for being too impulsive. I believed in making some research b4 any purchase. Should the ball dun meet my initial requirement, I blame myself for making the wrong decision. Btw, most bowling ball purchases r usually kind of trial & errors.There's no garantee
As a beginner at that time, i used to think that pro shops are reliable, so i din see the point of research, and that is wat most people think...that the pro shops knows best. That is precisely why i set up the ball buying guide.
And for your info this pro shop is number 2 in sales in singapore and is very reputable. How do u know they r nos 2 in sales in singapore??? Did they show u their annual sales report??? And from who u understand they r very reputable??? Who dare locally claimed they r nos 1 or 2 in terms of sales & reputation???
And you tell me that you are in the bowling scene for so long?? alot of people knows who is the top 2 pro shops with the highest sales, and they happen to be very near to each other, for a hint that place is where you go to eat steamboat. so where have you been??
And i am not blaming anyone, i just hoping the newbies wont follow my footstep and waste money. Understand, but your message was mis-leading??? Mostly, your discussion were making urgly comments abt the pro shop standard here.Instead, u r scaring the newbies away from the game???
ok, i apologise for this.
And the worst part is alot of them are very profit driven, Regardless of trades or business, they r juz making a living to meets end needs. Nobody runs a non-profit pro shop out of being passionate to the game. Besides, if u were to compare our local selling price to US, we r probably slightly cheaper. We dun see them complaining???
Of cos they are not complaining, cos the pro shops there are really pro. in terms of technical knowledge, as compared to singapore.
if you dun know, one of the top 2 pro shop in singapore actually cut finger inserts into half, so that they can use it as 2 finger inserts. Do you think u will cut the finger inserts into half to save cost if you rank yourself the top 2 pro shop in Singapore??? So, I guess they r probably not......
that is how unethical they can be, even thou they are earning big bucks, they stil go all out to maximise their profits, finger inserts are expensive, cutting into half means reducing your cost by half!!! why not??? -
If bowlers keep on 'Attacking" bowlers, what goods does it makes?
my opinion?
It started out in this thread as
engineboi trying share his bad experience to the rest of the bolwers or at least the potential bowlers, cautioning them to watch out for unprofessional drillers, didn't mentioned anyone.
While Armadillo trying to defence for the drillers or to picking out some bone in the eggs?
Yes, enginboi may be a bit critical on the drillers part, but that's his personnel experience, i don't see anything wrong with him sharing.
So exactly Armadillo, what is your point here?
Perhaps we can learn from you, can to share, consider me a newbie who has no certificate and certified ave to back me and hope to buy a GOOD ball to to find a really good and knowledgeble driller/s.
Usually i don't ask how much they(driller) charged, they say how much i pay how much, coz I trust all of them if i walk into to their proshop, so consider a very simple and naive customer nia nia. -
i used to trust the pro shops also, thinking they should be really good at wat they are doing, as most of them are good bowlers too. then after i got to know more and more...i realise that some these guys are bullshitting most of the time. there is this time i walk into this famous pro shop at a "steamboat" hotspot, i went to look for a pearlised ball for lanes breakdown. i was looking at this particular ball and asking the driller how is the core and whether it is good alot. and guess wat he says?? he says "you just want a shiny ball that goes long for dry lane right?? so the core not important one la..." i nearly burst into laughter, thinking wat kinda crappy ball driller he is. Obviously he dunno wat is the diff between a pearlised and a shiny ball.Originally posted by Spook:Perhaps we can learn from you, can to share, consider me a newbie who has no certificate and certified ave to back me and hope to buy a GOOD ball to to find a really good and knowledgeble driller/s.
Usually i don't ask how much they(driller) charged, they say how much i pay how much, coz I trust all of them if i walk into to their proshop, so consider a very simple and naive customer nia nia.
i am glad now i found a really solid bal driller, really knowledgeable, even hav a degree in physics!! price slightly more ex, but definitely worth every cent, only setback is he always very busy, fully booked, buy ball also must make appointment one....haha -
Originally posted by Spook:If bowlers keep on 'Attacking" bowlers, what goods does it makes?
my opinion?
It started out in this thread as
engineboi trying share his bad experience to the rest of the bolwers or at least the potential bowlers, cautioning them to watch out for unprofessional drillers, didn't mentioned anyone.
While Armadillo trying to defence for the drillers or to picking out some bone in the eggs?
Yes, enginboi may be a bit critical on the drillers part, but that's his personnel experience, i don't see anything wrong with him sharing.
So exactly Armadillo, what is your point here?
Perhaps we can learn from you, can to share, consider me a newbie who has no certificate and certified ave to back me and hope to buy a GOOD ball to to find a really good and knowledgeble driller/s.
Usually i don't ask how much they(driller) charged, they say how much i pay how much, coz I trust all of them if i walk into to their proshop, so consider a very simple and naive customer nia nia.
My point is simple......we are all here to learn & share hopfully to pickup better knowledge on the game. That's what this forum abt right???
However, evryone of us have bad experiences, but it is not ethical to discuss openly using urgly words. Making fun of others being old, cannot speak proper english & no other job can do...etc. Remember, we r all not perfect. We may not be right in our own knowledge of the game during the open discussion. The other way round, some jokers come in start making urgly comments abt your discussion, how would you feel???
Sharing persoonel experiences is good, howevr, using words to attack others is not fair as we only hear one-side of the story. Example, if enginboi had bad experience with 1 or 2 proshop. Then he should single out specifically for others to be aware. Instead, he claimed most of our local proshop is of no standard. This does not benefit anyone of us especially those newbies. They will fear most of the proshops since this is the scenario/mis-conception by enginboi's part.
Bowling is meant to be a fun sport for us to enjoy.........dun make it sound so hostile. -
Your bad experiences is only from 1 or 2 proshop, this only cover a small fraction percentage of the total nos of pro shop in Singapore. So, how can you say "a lot"??? Since u knew " a lot" is referred to asOriginally posted by enginboi:if "alot" means "all" the local pro shops to you, then perhaps you should attend eng class. So how am i contradicting??? "alot" in english can be refered to as 'numerous', 'many', 'plenty'. but it surely dun mean "All", except in 'Armadillo dictionary' of cos.
So i repeat again, i said alot of pro shops are of no standards, not "ALL"
'numerous', 'many', 'plenty'. but it surely dun mean "All". So, u are saying that 1 or 2 baddie out of the twenty over pro shops here is "a lot"??? Dun u think you r not giving a justifiable statement???
At which time did I used the words "all " during my reply to you? I said "mostly" nia nia...... -
i would love to quote the pro shops if i can, however by doing so may land me into alot of trouble....Originally posted by Armadillo:
Then he should single out specifically for others to be aware. Instead, he claimed most of our local proshop is of no standard. This does not benefit anyone of us especially those newbies.
it is not one or two....i personally bought balls from 4 pro shops before i finally find a good one on my fifth...anyway, other than the critical remarks on the pro shops. i stil did not see how the info i posted in the ball buying guide can be wrong. -
This is my third "let's be civil" message in a matter of minutes.
Armadillo
Its great that you see the other side of the coin and have had apparent good dealings so far in your equipment providers. But Engineboi's not trying to unleash hell on anyone or any shop. He's just sharing what he thinks, knows and has been through. The fact that he's been polite enough not to name a particular incident speaks volumes for his intentions.
I think its grand of you to speak up for the rest of readers who have had more fortunate experiences. Though it seems as if you're taking everything personally. Please do not.
This is a forum, and is meant to be an avenue for people to share their subjective experiences. Unless somebody has explicitly made hostile posturing, I do not think that it is justifiable for anybody else to respond in such a defensive manner as you have on several occasions.
Let's just have our share of opinions and exchange them in goodwill.