Below represents my current understanding of the path,other than slight modifications,none of the words below are mine (just copy and paste) :-)
******************
Surrender. It is easily one of the most important aspects of spirituality. It is synonymous with letting go and allowing. The hallmark of surrender is the giving up of resistance. It’s a being transparent to energy that is passing through you.
If surrender is so important, what is it, really?
The traditional sense of surrender includes a sense of loss and defeat, a place of weakness and inability, a choice to end the experience and exit the journey. In a spiritual context, surrender means something very different. It’s something applied while fully engaged with the experience rather than an end to it.
"What is the secret of your serenity?" asked a student. "Wholehearted cooperation with the inevitable." said the Master.
-Anthony DeMello" Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have. Make the Now the primary focus of your life. Whereas before you dwelt in time and paid brief visits to the Now, have your dwelling place in the Now and pay brief visits to past and future when required to deal with the practical aspects of your life situation. Always say "yes" to the present moment. What could be more futile, more insane, than to create inner resistance to something that already is? What could be more insane than to oppose life itself, which is now and always now? Surrender to what is. Say "yes" to life — and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you. " -Eckhart Tolle
Surrender basically boils down to a complete acceptance to life as it is in the moment ,creating a space for non-dual experience to arise.It’s more than just an intellectual acceptance, but a true acceptance that permeates your entire being.
Surrender is total internal non-resistance.Through non-resistance and allowing, the chain of dualistic bond will be loosen and weaken.
What is the deepest result of complete and total surrender?
**************************
Need comments frm the experienced/adept :-p
Non-duality is the realization of no observer-observed. Even while resistance is happening, there is no doer, or observer of resistance. It is simply what IS. Even resistance is allowed at that moment, because there is no separate self at the center who can avoid what IS manifesting at that moment. There is always only manifestation, which includes resistance, or whatever is appearing at that moment. In short, acceptance is not something you 'do' - everything is always already allowed because everything is simply unavoidable and undeniably present at that moment and there is no one who can escape what presents itself at the moment.
Non-duality is Buddha nature of all beings and has no resistance.
Amitabah
From my experience, there are more than one depth of non-duality.
The first initial one is like all the subject and object collapsed onto a 'flatness' screen.
The second one is penetrating all the visions and perceptions to reveal a depth... but this depth is not the same as the conventional space before the first non-dual. This second non-duality is 'transparent' with a clarity as if the pixels of colours are penetrated into. Here... it can feel as if one has never existed at all.
Thanks Simpo _ ,
and Happy CNY!
Originally posted by taoteching:Thanks Simpo _ ,
and Happy CNY!
Happy New Year ... sorry for the late reply.
Will like to add that, in my experience, no-self is a more subtle insight than non-duality.
Usually, we see a continuity of mental formation... well... my experience is that it is not always so. The streams of thought seems to be linear but it is not.. To my experience, it is the fast movement of thoughts that give the impression of continuity of self.
Now... thoughts can appear and disappear and they do not have to be linear... 'Simpo' the name pop up and dissapear... another image appears and dissapears... all of them are not self... just appearance, sensations, etc... and we cannot say they arise from a base or sink into the base. There is no base (as far as i see it)... just this ungraspable appearing and dissappearing.
Right now im seriously inquire into the practice of 'direct experience' ; i.e ..entering into nondual.
and i feel (suspect)the stages of insight that i've read(self-realization,non dual,anatta sunyyata...)need not be linear ,they can unfold in unpredictable ways ....
the most important thing is to keep letting go of the 'mind' , 'dualistic consciousness',and experiencing experience nakedly,totally.
zen buddhism,with it's way(method) of pointing to what we can actually experience,rather than in conceptual mind,seems very appealing to me.
come across this site www.wwzc.org (have to thanks AEN ,it's frm his article in Awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com that i discover link to the site),many many good articles pointing to the way we can direct experience sensations as it is,so that the mind can bcome clearer(uncluttered),and this wiil serve as potent condition for insight(seeing things as they really are)to arise.
ttc
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Non-duality is the realization of no observer-observed. Even while resistance is happening, there is no doer, or observer of resistance. It is simply what IS. Even resistance is allowed at that moment, because there is no separate self at the center who can avoid what IS manifesting at that moment. There is always only manifestation, which includes resistance, or whatever is appearing at that moment. In short, acceptance is not something you 'do' - everything is always already allowed because everything is simply unavoidable and undeniably present at that moment and there is no one who can escape what presents itself at the moment.
Want to add... when we drop the story and ground ourselves in the bare actuality of sensations themselves, all we feel are sensations of bodily contractions, that is all. More accurately, we don't 'feel' sensations, we are the sensations themselves revealing its vivid clarity.
That is all resistance is when we rest in non-dual luminosity... clear bodily sensations arising and passing away. Let them manifest and dissolve on its own accord. Resistance thus reveal its essence and nature as mind itself, an effervescent luminescence.
Right now im seriously inquire into the practice of 'direct experience' ; i.e ..entering into nondual.
My opinion is first to have the realization and glimpse of the Certainty of Being.
I have had actual non dual experiences even before the I AM realization... but due to not gaining conviction of the luminous essence of mind, these experiences came and went and does not provide lasting insight. It is after these experiences that Thusness told me to start doing self-inquiry.
Can refer to my 2008 thread Death, Consciousness, Nondual Perception
Thusness:
Yes AEN, you are beginning to experience what that is known in the Advaita Vedanta as ‘Atman’ except that the experiences you had did not lead to you to the wrong conclusion. This is because the doctrine of anatta has sunk sufficiently deep in your inmost consciousness. Although the 'teaching of anatta' helps to prevent you from landing into wrong views, the downside is it also denies you from experiencing that deep and utimate conviction, that certainty beyond doubt of your very own existence -- "I AM'. This is a very important factor for Advaita practitioners.
The next important factor is the duration of this non-dual experience must be prolonged; long enough for you to enter into a sort of absorption that the experience becomes 'oceanic'.
Me: Then how about for a Buddhist, does he need to experience " that deep and utimate conviction, that certainty beyond doubt of your very own existence -- "I AM'."?
Yes it is still important (in my opinion). It is the
experience of our luminosity. There must be certainty of our
luminosity but this luminosity is empty of an essence.
This is most difficult to understand and the purpose of insight
into our emptiness and anatta nature (to me) is really just about
'effortless sustainability'.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Right now im seriously inquire into the practice of 'direct experience' ; i.e ..entering into nondual.
My opinion is first to have the realization and glimpse of the Certainty of Being.
I have had actual non dual experiences even before the I AM realization... but due to not gaining conviction of the luminous essence of mind, these experiences came and went and does not provide lasting insight. It is after these experiences that Thusness told me to start doing self-inquiry.
Can refer to my 2008 thread Death, Consciousness, Nondual Perception
Thusness:
Yes AEN, you are beginning to experience what that is known in the Advaita Vedanta as ‘Atman’ except that the experiences you had did not lead to you to the wrong conclusion. This is because the doctrine of anatta has sunk sufficiently deep in your inmost consciousness. Although the 'teaching of anatta' helps to prevent you from landing into wrong views, the downside is it also denies you from experiencing that deep and utimate conviction, that certainty beyond doubt of your very own existence -- "I AM'. This is a very important factor for Advaita practitioners.
The next important factor is the duration of this non-dual experience must be prolonged; long enough for you to enter into a sort of absorption that the experience becomes 'oceanic'.
Me: Then how about for a Buddhist, does he need to experience " that deep and utimate conviction, that certainty beyond doubt of your very own existence -- "I AM'."?
Yes it is still important (in my opinion). It is the experience of our luminosity. There must be certainty of our luminosity but this luminosity is empty of an essence. This is most difficult to understand and the purpose of insight into our emptiness and anatta nature (to me) is really just about 'effortless sustainability'.
Hi AEN,
can elaborate the essential diference btween 'certainty of being' and non-dual experience?
is self realization(i am ) something that that lasts(never leaves once u attained it?)this do not make much sense,as even if i had a feeling certainty of my beingness,with the passing of time,the realization(or experience) will remain as memory(of past experience);can memory be trusted?it can't...
more importantly(as im interested in the practical aspect of practice than theoretical,)how do u differentiate btween practices that will lead to i am realization and those leading to nondual?
surrender,let go 'release' will lead to nondual(collapse of the observer),but what about inquiry?i found to put attention on the sense of 'myself' seems tiring and demands much attention...what's ur experience?
Originally posted by taoteching:
Hi AEN,
can elaborate the essential diference btween 'certainty of being' and non-dual experience?
is self realization(i am ) something that that lasts(never leaves once u attained it?)this do not make much sense,as even if i had a feeling certainty of my beingness,with the passing of time,the realization(or experience) will remain as memory(of past experience);can memory be trusted?it can't...
more importantly(as im interested in the practical aspect of practice than theoretical,)how do u differentiate btween practices that will lead to i am realization and those leading to nondual?
surrender,let go 'release' will lead to nondual(collapse of the observer),but what about inquiry?i found to put attention on the sense of 'myself' seems tiring and demands much attention...what's ur experience?
The Certainty of Being gives rise to a conviction about the immediate Beingness or pure luminosity of Being. Because this is not an experience, but a clear realization/insight into the luminous essence of Being, it does not fade - luminosity never fades, luminosity can never be lost and is ever-present. Whether thought/memory arise or not - the undeniability of Beingness is still present. Whether you want to remember or not - its there, it is inescapable.
Non-dual experience can simply be an experience without realization/insight. So here is the difference.
Mindfulness and letting go can lead to non-dual experiences, self-inquiry/koans/etc lead to self-realization.
Self-inquiry in my experience is not an attention-based practice, which will then be contrived.
You are not focusing your attention on something - on a feeling, a sensation, an experience, whatsoever. Rather, you are investigating - you are finding out what you truly are. What am I, truly?
So you are actually going to 'discover' something that is undeniably present already - you are not trying to reach or sustain an experience, you are simply going to discover what is already present.
Originally posted by taoteching:Below represents my current understanding of the path,other than slight modifications,none of the words below are mine (just copy and paste) :-)
******************
Surrender. It is easily one of the most important aspects of spirituality. It is synonymous with letting go and allowing. The hallmark of surrender is the giving up of resistance. It’s a being transparent to energy that is passing through you.
If surrender is so important, what is it, really?
The traditional sense of surrender includes a sense of loss and defeat, a place of weakness and inability, a choice to end the experience and exit the journey. In a spiritual context, surrender means something very different. It’s something applied while fully engaged with the experience rather than an end to it.
"What is the secret of your serenity?" asked a student. "Wholehearted cooperation with the inevitable." said the Master.
-Anthony DeMello
" Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have. Make the Now the primary focus of your life. Whereas before you dwelt in time and paid brief visits to the Now, have your dwelling place in the Now and pay brief visits to past and future when required to deal with the practical aspects of your life situation. Always say "yes" to the present moment. What could be more futile, more insane, than to create inner resistance to something that already is? What could be more insane than to oppose life itself, which is now and always now? Surrender to what is. Say "yes" to life — and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you. " -Eckhart Tolle
Surrender basically boils down to a complete acceptance to life as it is in the moment ,creating a space for non-dual experience to arise.It’s more than just an intellectual acceptance, but a true acceptance that permeates your entire being.
Surrender is total internal non-resistance.Through non-resistance and allowing, the chain of dualistic bond will be loosen and weaken.
What is the deepest result of complete and total surrender?
**************************
Need comments frm the experienced/adept :-p
when you need to take a shit real badly, can you surrender your body? if not, then all these questions revolving the attained state of surrender is irrelevant for you, the only being who are answer your question without making any mistake is buddha.
so stop worrying about what is it like if you can totally disregard whether your body need to ex-cremate or not. Work with what you have now, whenever your body needs to command your mind, observe and study the fight.
Originally posted by taoteching:
Hi AEN,
can elaborate the essential diference btween 'certainty of being' and non-dual experience?
is self realization(i am ) something that that lasts(never leaves once u attained it?)this do not make much sense,as even if i had a feeling certainty of my beingness,with the passing of time,the realization(or experience) will remain as memory(of past experience);can memory be trusted?it can't...
more importantly(as im interested in the practical aspect of practice than theoretical,)how do u differentiate btween practices that will lead to i am realization and those leading to nondual?
surrender,let go 'release' will lead to nondual(collapse of the observer),but what about inquiry?i found to put attention on the sense of 'myself' seems tiring and demands much attention...what's ur experience?
One more thing: luminosity, beingness is not a feeling.
You cannot feel beingness. Why? 'Feeling beingness' implies there is a 'you' separate from 'beingness', a 'you' that can sometimes feel, sometimes perceive, and sometimes not perceive beingness. Because of a perceived separation you will always have the illusory sense of 'losing' or 'gaining' presence-awareness. It is like thinking 'oh I used to have it but now I don't' even while reality is shining in plain view in its immediacy - you simply overlooked it in favour of a false concept that you 'felt' it before but now you don't. In actuality reality never is an experience to be 'felt' - it is simply overlooked, maybe recognised at times, but due to lack of realization, the habits/ignorance of duality manifest and you then project a sense of separation again and there goes the 'I got it, I lost it' drama - but that is all illusory projections that stops arising after realization, and so the tendency is to rest naturally in the natural state (which isn't a state but the undeniable beingness).
Such a dichotomy is false, it is non-existent. There is no 'you' who can perceive or not perceive 'beingness'.
Why? You ARE that self-shining, self-knowing presence-awareness. Presence is aware by nature, and awareness is present by nature. Presence and awareness is one.
Self-shining, self-knowing presence-awareness cannot be approached by 'feeling' because there never was a subject-object dichotomy present. So you don't come to know/feel/see presence, but presence is self-felt, self-known, self-evident by its nature (but overlooked due to our ignorance).
Even if you had a so called 'strong feeling of presence' (which I often have even before the realization of I AM), if you do not realize non-separation, if you do not realize your non-dual nature as presence-awareness, you will be forever deluded even in the face of reality.
As Presence-Awareness cannot be approached by feeling, it can only be discovered, realized, as an ever-present, undeniable fact of existence, more undeniable and more intimate than your own nose. You don't need to remember your own existence or try to feel your own existence - these attempts are seen to be ridiculous much like the attempt to search for your horse elsewhere while riding in it, or looking all around for your eyes with your eyes - because you never were apart from existence, you ARE existence, undeniably present in its immediacy. You simply need to realize that all along, you were riding on your horse, all along, you ARE pure presence awareness and there is no need to focus your attention on it, try to remember it, try to feel it, and all those nonsense.