Originally posted by realization:What happens when you have a relative slandering you incessantly (every day or a few times a day). And I mean real slander, as in telling untruths, causing all sorts of trouble, even to the point of ill-treating my grandmother. But she goes and tells her sons that WE are ill-treating grandma and cause all sorts of quarrels, displeasure, distrust and HATRED among siblings. Calling people up between 5 to 20 times a day and cause all manner of emotional turbulence.
I came on the forum tonight for the first time in many, many days because I was so caught up with the duties of looking after my sick grandma in hospital. I was literally praying that there would be a topic I can suitably post about my problem. I didn't think there would be anywhere, or anyone I could ask for advice. And "click", I see this thread.
It was around October that in desperation I ran to Kuan Yin temple at Waterloo St. (even while knowing it's not very orthodox Buddhist) to ask for help in letting go of my dislike and hatred for this person and her sons. And I also prayed for grandma's speedy release from this Saha world and samsara (grandma's wish). Within days, I was led by chance to chant the Cunde Mantra. I slept well for the first time in days ever since I chanted. But that benefit has gone away since then, because this relative is incessantly and unrelentingly harrassing us.
This has been going on for months ever since my grandfather left grandma behind (passed away).
Today I've reached boiling stage where I feel almost ready to shoot someone.
Don't tell me to let go. It's not me who doesn't wanna let go. She's biting like a mad dog. Other relatives have also quarreled heatedly with her, to the point of wanting to hit her. My father literally had to push her physically away when she went on a ranting, raving tirade the other day.
And yes, she's already seeing a psychiatrist.
Ideas.... real solutions anyone?
I can understand your anger. If she has a psychiatric problem, then there is nothing you can do because you can't talk sense to her. Just let her sons or your relatives know that she has psychiatric problem and is seeing a psychiatrist, may be they will realise what is the real problem and stop believing her words.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:Buddhism teaches wisdom. I guess we also have to use our wisdom to forgive. I'm not criticising Christianity but I'm quoting a real life example which happened in Singapore many years ago and you guys tell me is this the right way to forgive.
Many years ago, there was a young lady from a Christian family was raped and murdered. I couldn't remember the family posted in her obituary or told the reporter that they had forgiven the rapist because of their religion. They said this just days after the case and before the rapist got caught ,repented or felt regretted. Don't you think the rapist will be even more daring and go round committing crimes thinking that what he had committed was nothing serious. The family's statement could even encourage potential rapists.
Yes true...
And yeah my Christian friend did say he would report these matters to the authority to prevent more casualties.
Originally posted by Weychin:
That's what the law for! Whether the parents forgive the rapist or not, the rapist is still incarcerated for the crime. We live in a society with laws as deterents, and if you break a law that leaves you liable for hanging, you better not break that law. The laws forms a deterence and also offer some form of recompense, but if you cannot let go and forgive, you will be still be suffering a loss even after the offender has been executed.
If I'm not wrong, that rapist was never caught. I think he would not feel a sense of guilt as the family had already forgiven him. May be he would not think what he had done was seriously wrong.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:If I'm not wrong, that rapist was never caught. I think he would not feel a sense of guilt as the family had already forgiven him. May be he would not think what he had done was seriously wrong.
Originally posted by Fcukpap:the invisible hand refers to one or group in power...
again, it is not the passivity of buddhism i m getting at, that is not my point....
i m referring to different perspectives and how systems could affect lives and how this could be proactively changed in a manner other than from religious perspectives which nothing could be done but self reflect ...
different roles different ways to resolving problems - some things can be forgiven, some things need to be changed that leads to progresses....religions are bystanders or observers of such change
surely and agreeable....
but aside to religious observances, monks are still a part of that community, a part of that decision towards change or not to change...that stresses its compulsory requirement on anyone except for a valid reason not to or to abstain....
beliefs and human affairs are inextricable
Originally posted by Fcukpap:surely and agreeable....
but aside to religious observances, monks are still a part of that community, a part of that decision towards change or not to change...that stresses its compulsory requirement on anyone except for a valid reason not to or to abstain....
beliefs and human affairs are inextricable
it's true, one suffer even more if one do not give oneself in.
If you are a true cultivator,
You see not the faults of the world;
If you see the wrongs of others,
You have fallen into the wrong path.
Others find fault but I do not,
If I find fault then I am at fault;
Only remove this fault finding mind,
And all Kleshas would be broken. --Master Hui Neng
somebody post a similar thread:-
How do you forgive and move on with Life
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/12/topics/421335?page=2
ps: tot demon bane is xtian. at least he like the Buddhist's idea. haha.
Hmm i've posted this earlier but.. hope i dun get flamed... lol.
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Master Chin Kung- ��以怨天尤人
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1twCutM8gQ
I think its pretty good advice by ChinKung
I had a campmate during ns who used to shout at me over small things last time, sometimes even when the superior is around, and worse if the superior is nt around/attending meeting. Sometimes, also make fun of me together with other ppl. Somemore, i came into the dept earlier than him.
My understudy and another guy also somehow 'teamed up' with him in the end coz he didnt like my work. Imagine understudy bullying and the superior dun want to do anything much about it, all in the name of 'she just wants to finish her job efficiently'. Theres once i almost wanted to punch him, but if i did that, i will end up in DB. If i shouted back at him, most likely will end up in a huge quarrel and fight. I had to tolerate it everyday for nine months till ord.
a master will see it to do with a previous karmic affinity, that now they are treating u in this way. never know what kind of bad thing one did to them previously. accepting and disolve now can help clear any grudge in the future. per se.
/\
Be gentle.
As a zen-ish yogi, this is what I learned from my teacher, whose name he does not bother, and whom I refer as a way to address anything from a cat to a bowl of porridge to my most revered teacher.
Sometimes reading nice discussions like this make me fall back to basics. What basics? The basic truth of human inner goodness. I have to push myself a little to ask this: will you, anyone, whether angry or happy, wish harm upon ....
... a little kitten?
.... a little newborn?
or raindrops that fall on your window pane creating a nice melody of sounds?
YET!
Towards fellow human beings, especially those who live immensely close and share strong hate and love with us, sometimes death we wish upon them. Evil is fuel. Good is fuel. The Buddha taught only to Abandon Evil, Do Good, Purify the Mind. Purifying the mind, i guess, i am not too sure, i have not so much experience, simply refers to a stage when... having seen that evil is well.. heck.. indeed evil, and that good is.. wow, great, but only this much, the next time we see the duckhead who somehow or rather, makes us angry... i imagine there are two approaches or more.
The first one, is we imagine them to be ikan bilis, put them into our mouths, crunch crunch crunch. The second, we imagine ourselves to be ikan bilis, they want to crunch us, we put up a struggle, then somehow or rather, words won't win the argument, but experience does.
If love do not separate us, and hate cannot, maybe yeah, forgiveness might.
Go mind your own business! Shoo!
Crunch cunrch...
Knowledge is when you learn something new everyday. Wisdom is when you let something go everyday. ~Emerson
Dear sinweiy,
This is the nicest piece of ikan bilis I have tasted today.
I am very grateful.
May all sentient beings be well and happy.
May all sentient beings be free from suffering and the causes of it.
May all sentient beings never be separated from sorrowless bliss.
You can count on the world because when it comes to the crunch, wisdom and compassion ripens like two sweet juicy mangoes which... awww... one for you, one for me or whoever wants it.
Have fun....
:)
i vegetarian..haha..:)
Better to see one fault in oneself,
Than a thousand faults in others.
- Dhammapada
/\
www.accesstoinsight.org\tipitaka\mn\mn.021x.budd.html
The Parable of the Saw
"Monks, even if bandits were to savagely sever you, limb by limb, with a double-handled saw, even then, whoever of you harbors ill will at heart would not be upholding my Teaching.
Monks, even in such a situation you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred.
On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to those very persons, making them as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless.
We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.
/\
I actually have a choice between Diamond Sutta .. there is a particular chapter but it doesn't matter. should be 14.. and... wow. metta sutta. and wow.
i chose this:
Better to see one fault in oneself,
Than a thousand faults in others.
- Dhammapada
thank you :)
_/|\_
行有�德,�求诸己 . (ie if we see things that are not right, turn around and exam ourselves.)--Confucius
thus i heard a touching story, when King Yao Shun was alive, people commited crimes. He saw a criminal was chained and was about to sent to imprisonment. King Yao Shun then asked him what had he commited. He said that it had not rain for a long time, and their crops cannot harvest. there were nothing to eat, hence he stole some food and commited the crime.
After hearing that, King Yao Shun told the soldier to release the person. and also told the soldier to cuff Him up instead saying the person is not at fault, but the King is at fault. As a King, He did not take good care of the people and offended the heaven, hence heaven did not bring about rain. King Yao Shun wholeheartedly repented. A moment there after, the sky starts to rain.
each house has their own difficult sutra.
this is also to teach parent teaching their children. when the child misbehave, let the child see that the parent are punish instead. (this is one of old master's idea) :)
/\
Time is the best healing medicine .
Time is also the best forgiving element.
Death is the ultimum.
Ten Practices and Vows of the Bodhisattva Samantabhadra
礼敬诸佛， 称赞如�。
First, Pay homage and respect to all Buddha.
Second, Praise the Tathagatagarbha.
诸佛 not quite same as 如�
One can respect everyone, even if they did evil deeds.
But one cannot praise their evil deeds. that's why Buddha use Tathagatagarbha and Buddha to differentiate between respect and praising.
/\
i agree with sinweiy.
Hence the many names for the Buddha. As an academic subject, it is not easy to grasp. But yet, some areas, ever relevant 2500 years later. It does not really matter to a Buddha, but yet it matters, to us.
Took me a fair amount of time to think through a stage when I was asking, why did He attain nirvana, but not me yet? Then my teacher popped by (that's what Zen teachers do), with an email, telling me to go see a psychiatrist.
It is not "don't ask", it is just.. somethings the Buddha himself proclaim, somebody else can grab the sutra I have no idea which, that somethings He himself refuses to speak of. My favourite anecdote is the one where He told Ananda, the teachings I taught you are like the leaf compared to the tree. It is enough, man, it is enough for the future generations till the dharma ending age.
have fun...
Originally posted by Wiser:i suffered from an idiot dementia old man who is totally unrelated to me in any way. Just an idiot neighbour who then used me to lure all his unfilial sons home to listen to his lies. Police got involved. Even went to mediation but didn't solve any problem because this idiot dementia old man could only get his attention when he created problems for me. He was aggressive and even challenged me to a fight.
I had to pray hard at my altar to let this stop. Finally he died suddenly and this stopped. I was harrassed for two years for this idiot's selfish purpose. I am just glad my prayer wish came true.
Peace resumed and the neighbour 's unfilial sons left me alone . They got into trouble with the Police though because the old idiot kept calling the Police for no good reason and nobody could stop him.
The whole family including the old wife can not look me in the eyes nowadays.
I did practice tolerance in the beginning, keep finding excuses to forgive the idiot.
The problem is one hand cannot clap alone and since the idiot insisted to create non-existing lies so that his sons, daughters and grandchildren would return to visit him, i had to suffer for two years before his death ended everyone's misery.
I didn't get any of my family members involved because i didn't want this to become two family war. I just kept mum about my sufferings. Even when a good friend wanted to meditate for me , i refused. I knew what the old idiot is up to and i didn't want anyone else to be involved in his selfish silly plots.
Sometimes old people create more problems for others than being helpful. Especially those with dementia or suffering from loneliness.
I can't say I don't understand your angst because my grandmother also ever inadvertently called the police against us when she talked nonsense in hospital after a fall. She told nurses just before a much-needed surgery that there were people trying to do her in at home, when the only other person at home was my long-suffering grandfather.
But I suppose, suffering at the hands of a relative with dementia is different from your case where the person was someone you didn't even have affection for. There are mixed feelings for families with dementia patients. You remember the love they gave you when they were more normal, but you also find it so frustrating dealing with their aggression and accusations.
Our motivations for wanting her to be released from the current incarnation are more out of unwillingness to see her suffer, but admittedly also because we are exhausted and taxed. In my better moments, I feel a lot of compassion for her and try to calm her emotionally. At other times, I just stare painedly at her and hope for a release for all involved.
I'm sorry for hijacking this thread, but for me on a personal level, this is also about forgiveness and letting go. I can't discuss this at a theoretical or philisophical level at present, because this is what happening to me right now. Buddha was right about the Four Noble Truths. Spot on....
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:I can understand your anger. If she has a psychiatric problem, then there is nothing you can do because you can't talk sense to her. Just let her sons or your relatives know that she has psychiatric problem and is seeing a psychiatrist, may be they will realise what is the real problem and stop believing her words.
They are her sons. They would surely know she has a psychiatric problem since they are paying for treatment, but I think it runs deeper than that. Mental poisons permeate this person, and she has also very much been involved in spiritual medium and black magic type of stuff. Often when I'm near her, I have to remind myself to chant, so as not to be sucked in by her negativity. Admittedly, because I'm so new to chanting, my resolve 鼎力 is not strong enough. She's scary in her ability to cause trouble ç ´å�� and we never knew she was so scary until the past one year when bereavement and grandma's illness needed us to meet up so much more often.
I don't have the magnanimity to forgive.
I avoid them like pest
lol