y issit tat u can folow æƒ å¾‹æ³•å¸ˆ advice but when we folow MCK advice u got so many reasons to prove tat MCK is wrong ?
I folow MCK advice does not mean i disagree with æƒ å¾‹æ³•å¸ˆ advice . different people have different ways of teaching and learning.I do watch æƒ å¾‹æ³•å¸ˆ video on buddhism teaching too.
Different people have different opinions... it's irreconcilable. End of story.
no disagree, i think just issue of interpretation.
ä¾�æ£æ³•ï¼Œä¸�ä¾�方便法 is an all rounded saying. neither agree non disagree saying. a prefect Mahayana answer. i think the word ä¾� rely doesn't mean totally reject. at least 方便法 does not mean 邪法. that we would reject.
like �法��人 �義��語.
法 need 人 to transmit. without people, how to teach dharma. it doesn't totally reject the 人.
義 need 語 to say. without word, how to get the meaning. it doesn't totally reject the 語. so we doesn't totally reject the 方便法.
Buddha also use some 方便法(see Lotus Sutra), no?
13th Pureland patriarch Yin Guang use most his money to print Liao Fan to teach people cause and effect. Liao Fan is also not much a Buddhism sutra. but we still consider him 13th pureland patriarch.
方便法 is just some aiding tools, utimately to gain Enlightenment, it's not enough. hence we need to "RELY"ä¾� on Proper dharmaæ£æ³•. it's like saying ä¾�了義ä¸�ä¾�ä¸�了義. this is my interpretation which does not disagree with any dharma masters.
/\
Originally posted by sinweiy:no disagree, i think just issue of interpretation.
ä¾�æ£æ³•ï¼Œä¸�ä¾�方便法 is an all rounded saying. neither agree non disagree saying. a prefect Mahayana answer. i think the word ä¾� rely doesn't mean totally reject. at least 方便法 does not mean 邪法. that we would reject.
like �法��人 �義��語.
法 need 人 to transmit. without people, how to teach dharma. it doesn't totally reject the 人.
義 need 語 to say. without word, how to get the meaning. it doesn't totally reject the 語. so we doesn't totally reject the 方便法.
Buddha also use some 方便法(see Lotus Sutra), no?
13th Pureland patriarch Yin Guang use most his money to print Liao Fan to teach people cause and effect. Liao Fan is also not much a Buddhism sutra. but we still consider him 13th pureland patriarch.
方便法 is just some aiding tools, utimately to gain Enlightenment, it's not enough. hence we need to "RELY"ä¾� on Proper dharmaæ£æ³•. it's like saying ä¾�了義ä¸�ä¾�ä¸�了義. this is my interpretation which does not disagree with any dharma masters.
/\
To sinweiy, and pureland_zen
Did Yin Guang Dharma Master said, one has to enter Buddhism via Liao Fan? The problem with Jing Kong Dharma Master, is he stress that Di Zi Gui is the foundation and entry to Buddhism! Gotta study that then move on to Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian, and then the �善 sutra. There's a sequence. Di Zi Gui, FIRST, and then the Tai Shang Gang Yin Pian, and so on. Am I wrong to say that? Thats the problem with Jing Kong Dharma Master. 'cause he's stressing a good book outside of Buddhism as entry and foundation to Buddhism.
No problem if one stress a lot on a good book 善书. But dun go tell people they GOTTA, HAVE TO enter Buddhism via a 善书 which is not Buddhism! Until now u guys still dun get it?? There's a difference between telling people to go read good book 善书 , and telling people that THEY GOTTA STUDY AND PRACTICE THAT PARTICULAR 善书 GOOD BOOK (WHICH IS NOT BUDDHISM) IN ORDER TO GET INTO BUDDHISM , get it?
Can we drop this subject and move on?
Originally posted by Zenist69:对�起，这里让我最�回应一下。
圣人è®ä¸�ç‰äºŽæ˜¯æ£æ³•ã€‚圣人è®ä¸�ç‰äºŽæ˜¯ä½›æ•™ã€‚
what is æ£æ³•? it varies accordingly to your individual belief. Jesus Christ's lovers will say theirs is the æ£æ³•. åœ£äººè® can also be the æ£æ³• in that era when humans seek for some guidances to follow.
æ£æ³• varies .
Originally posted by Zenist69:To sinweiy, and pureland_zen
Did Yin Guang Dharma Master said, one has to enter Buddhism via Liao Fan? The problem with Jing Kong Dharma Master, is he stress that Di Zi Gui is the foundation and entry to Buddhism! Gotta study that then move on to Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian, and then the �善 sutra. There's a sequence. Di Zi Gui, FIRST, and then the Tai Shang Gang Yin Pian, and so on. Am I wrong to say that? Thats the problem with Jing Kong Dharma Master. 'cause he's stressing a good book outside of Buddhism as entry and foundation to Buddhism.
No problem if one stress a lot on a good book 善书. But dun go tell people they GOTTA, HAVE TO enter Buddhism via a 善书 which is not Buddhism! Until now u guys still dun get it?? There's a difference between telling people to go read good book 善书 , and telling people that THEY GOTTA STUDY AND PRACTICE THAT PARTICULAR 善书 GOOD BOOK (WHICH IS NOT BUDDHISM) IN ORDER TO GET INTO BUDDHISM , get it?
Can we drop this subject and move on?
erm, i'm sure, he didn't insist forcefully. i know he didn't as i listen to him more than any of u-all here, i can say. he read more than i eat salt. those (older) who can wholeheartedly recite Amituofo in a quite place can also concentrate on doing so.
think the issue now is u insist he insist? but i see the same thing as Yin Guang telling people to go study a good book, seeing in that time the buddhist sutra are not so helpful to teach people cause and effect anymore, hence he printed Liao Fan massively. as we know buddhist sutra, who want to read at that time. not many people. but Liao Fan is different. it's more common and less dogma. this is entry to me. similarly MCK is seeing in this time of age, the morality of people is degenerating to the bottom core and also people no longer believe in cause and effect, hence he's encouraging like Yin Guang to study Standard of being a good student/child plus 190++ stories of cause and effect (without the label). even if he say it's an "entry", i can understand clearly his reason. u ask non buddhist people to read buddhist sutra, people will think, wah, buddhist sutra big shot ah, per se. he want to make buddhism less dogma, lively 活泼 and like many ancient masters make dharma(not buddhism as a religion) more blending with daily life. it's the true essence of Dharma.
however entry is entry, exit samsara is another issue altogether.
i'm more happy to drop the issue.
/\
Originally posted by Weychin:Hi Zenist69, You views and accusation against a certain teacher is not a mild one. Hopefully you can see everything is relative, perhaps, if you can put down your prejudice against anybody, then perhaps you can also see wisdom arising that person or religion. Now, a good measure of a teacher is his students. Is there really any heresy, infamy or disharmony coming from the students. Or that the students have come out worst after being influenced negatively by this particular teacher. If you really think that this teacher is really heretic, then investigate the result of his heresies. This teacher has been around not just one or two years,so, if indeed that he have lead people astray, it should’nt be hard to find. I feel you are being radicalised, thus will partly contribute to disharmony.
I don't know whether MJK's students, whether they go astray or not. But MJK is not right to insist people to enter Buddhism via Di Zi Gui and Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian. If MJK is outside of Buddhism, a religion which is not Buddhism, well, I wish him and his students all the best. If he and his students consider themselves Buddhist, then they should stop insisting Di Zi Gui as an entry to Buddhism. Am I being radical? No. The one radicalized is MJK and his students.
Originally posted by sinweiy:erm, i'm sure, he didn't insist forcefully. i know he didn't as i listen to him more than any of u-all here, i can say. he read more than i eat salt. those (older) who can wholeheartedly recite Amituofo in a quite place can also concentrate on doing so.
think the issue now is u insist he insist? but i see the same thing as Yin Guang telling people to go study a good book, seeing in that time the buddhist sutra are not so helpful to teach people cause and effect anymore, hence he printed Liao Fan massively. as we know buddhist sutra, who want to read at that time. not many people. but Liao Fan is different. it's more common and less dogma. this is entry to me. similarly MCK is seeing in this time of age, the morality of people is degenerating to the bottom core and also people no longer believe in cause and effect, hence he's encouraging like Yin Guang to study Standard of being a good student/child plus 190++ stories of cause and effect (without the label). even if he say it's an "entry", i can understand clearly his reason. u ask non buddhist people to read buddhist sutra, people will think, wah, buddhist sutra big shot ah, per se. he want to make buddhism less dogma, lively 活泼 and like many ancient masters make dharma(not buddhism as a religion) more blending with daily life. it's the true essence of Dharma.however entry is entry, exit samsara is another issue altogether.
i'm more happy to drop the issue.
/\
He didn't insist forcefully? But he did insist.
There are 84000 ways in Buddhism. Why resort to a way outside of Buddhism? If he's not Buddhist, not a Buddhist Dharma Master, I respect his view. But he's a Buddhist, a Buddhist Dharma Master isn't he?
Make Buddhism less dogma and lively? Reading sutra consider big shot? How about reading confucius book, thats humble?? Those comments from u, thats uncalled for. Do u consider yourself as Buddhist or not? How can u say those hing if u consider yourself as Buddhist? Buddhism dun need to resort to Confucianism to make it lively and less dogma thank you very much. And reading sutra is not consider big shot. With MJK and his supporters as 'friends' of Buddhism, who needs enemy??
Entry is entry. So there are all kind of ways to Buddhism. No need to INSIST people to go read Di Zi Gui. MJK is wrong in that particular view and action. If he's a non Buddhist, sure, I respect all religions. But if he's a Buddhist, then please act like a Buddhist, a Dharma Master as he should be.
Originally posted by Wiser:
what is æ£æ³•? it varies accordingly to your individual belief. Jesus Christ's lovers will say theirs is the æ£æ³•. åœ£äººè® can also be the æ£æ³• in that era when humans seek for some guidances to follow.
æ£æ³• varies .
Jesus Christ‘s æ£æ³• is under Christianity. Confucius åœ£äººè® thats under Confucianism. Buddha's æ£æ³• is under Buddhism. Please dun mix it up like MJK sect did.
already state the reasons many times, guess, agree to disagree..bah...
drop the subject and move on.
ps: some of the Buddhists here are not "MJK sect", but the rational is already uncalled for in Buddhism. think we should be the one asking, u buddhist or not. if someone insist wrongly, then we don't know how to discern mah. we not retarded wat.
84000 include Human vehicle 人乘 and deva vehicle 天乘.
五乘佛法,是「人乘�天乘���乘�辟支佛乘��薩乘�。like Buddha also learn many religions when young. if u don't know their religion, how to debate with them. those that teach to be reborn in human realm are human vehicle. those that teached to go to heaven are deva vehicle. hence we said 84000 is countless, we vow to learn them all. 84000 include many form of teachings. even TCM form for curing illness. FS form. dharma in all walks of life, as mentioned in Hua Yen Sutra, "53 chan". etc.
Originally posted by Zenist69:I don't know whether MJK's students, whether they go astray or not. But MJK is not right to insist people to enter Buddhism via Di Zi Gui and Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian. If MJK is outside of Buddhism, a religion which is not Buddhism, well, I wish him and his students all the best. If he and his students consider themselves Buddhist, then they should stop insisting Di Zi Gui as an entry to Buddhism. Am I being radical? No. The one radicalized is MJK and his students.
I'm one of MJK's students and also a member of 净宗. I watched Di Zi Gui but always remembered what MJK said, è€�实念佛，念“阿弥陀佛"。”MJK emphasised 念“阿弥陀佛" more than Di Zi Gui . Thus, his students will never go wrong.
Zenist69 i think you should not be the one to ask this question. We should ask you instead. Are you sure you are a buddhist?
Originally posted by sinweiy:already state the reasons many times, guess, agree to disagree..bah...
drop the subject and move on.
ps: some of the Buddhists here are not "MJK sect", but the rational is already uncalled for in Buddhism. think we should be the one asking, u buddhist or not. if someone insist wrongly, then we don't know how to discern mah. we not retarded wat.
84000 include Human vehicle 人乘 and deva vehicle 天乘.
五乘佛法,是「人乘�天乘���乘�辟支佛乘��薩乘�。like Buddha also learn many religions when young. if u don't know their religion, how to debate with them. those that teach to be reborn in human realm are human vehicle. those that teached to go to heaven are deva vehicle. hence we said 84000 is countless, we vow to learn them all. 84000 include many form of teachings. even TCM form for curing illness. FS form. dharma in all walks of life, as mentioned in Hua Yen Sutra, "53 chan". etc.
Its not u guys are retarded or wat. Its MJK is too knowledgable, too well spoken, charismatic, and confident. And u guys just got taken up by all that and forgot to look carefully into what he had spoken. And also Spore nowadays rarely have people with those calibre combine. So he stept in here, viola, lots of local supporters.
To have knowledge in other religions and teachings, in order to debate and convince people from other faith, thats good idea. But not to the extend of reading other religion, other teachings as entry and foundation to Buddhism.
U could argue all u want, but Di Zi Gui is not part of Buddhism. Only in the mind of MJK sect, they think thats part of Buddhism. The 84000 dharma practice of Buddhism, sorry to say Di Zi Gui is not part of it. U had been mislead.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
I'm one of MJK's students and also a member of 净宗. I watched Di Zi Gui but always remembered what MJK said, è€�实念佛，念“阿弥陀佛"。”MJK emphasised 念“阿弥陀佛" more than Di Zi Gui . Thus, his students will never go wrong.
That part of his teaching, I have no problem with that. But to place emphasis on Di Zi Gui, i think its a kind of betrayal towards Buddhism, dun you think? Its not only about being good and upright and all that. Its about principle. Yes, Di Zi Gui is a good book, 善书. But as a Buddha disciple 佛弟å�, in principle, he shouldn't be pushing Di Zi Gui as entry and foundation to Buddhism. Its a kind of betrayal to his religion his faith, if Buddhism is indeed his faith.
If MJK didn't consider himself a Buddhist, thats altogether another matter. If he's under a new age religion, I have no qualm with him pushing for Di Zi Gui as entry and foundation to his new age religion. But if he and his students keep pushing Di Zi Gui as entry and foundation to Buddhism, then thats just against principle, against Buddhism. 'cause Di Zi Gui is not Buddhism.
I am not here to argue whether the studnet and MJK is upright or not. But in the matter of pushing Di Zi Gui, a non Buddhist book as entry and foundation to Buddhism, thats just wrong from Buddhism point of view.
Originally posted by Wiser:Zenist69 i think you should not be the one to ask this question. We should ask you instead. Are you sure you are a buddhist?
At the least, I didn't get other religions and teachings mixed up with Buddhism. I didn't mistake the æ£æ³• of other religions as the æ£æ³• of Buddhism. Yeah, I am a Buddhist.
talk less, practice more
such discussions have little support for actual practice, at best a little short of rumor mongering.
sorry if this post sounds bad.
wah, zero's post got hidden meaning..hehe ..nice. :)
Dharma is from nature, it belong to all.
i think MCK is a good Buddhist. he's helping to promote peace in the world. say if u go and promote Buddhist sutra in the school, or educational system, or ask a freethinker to study, they will think u are asking for convert.
/\
Originally posted by sinweiy:wah, zero's post got hidden meaning..hehe ..nice. :)
Dharma is from nature, it belong to all.
i think MCK is a good Buddhist. he's helping to promote peace in the world. say if u go and promote Buddhist sutra in the school, or educational system, or ask a freethinker to study, they will think u are asking for convert.
/\
Sorry, off topic a bit as I could not find the post which I asked you about absolute right and wrong. Let me asked again, will the person who found his Buddha nature differentiate right and wrong in real life but will not èµ·æ— æ˜Ž. Or the person who is enlightened will not care who is right or wrong in real life and just stay out of right and wrong even though there is right and wrong.
Originally posted by zero thought:I learnt pythagora’s theorem in maths. But where does pythagora’s theorem belong really?
Does it belong to mathematics? But science uses it too. So does architecture. So does other subjects. Where does it belong? What is pythagora’s theorem? Why is it called pythagora’s theorem?
Nowhere does it belong. Neither does it have a name. The name was given after pythagoras discovered it.
Pythagora’s theorem is just pythagora’s theorem. Even if no one discovered it, it’s still found in nature. It’s just the way it is.
Let it go and let nature be the way it is.
The 'æ£æ³•' of different religions and teachngs, doesn't equate æ£æ³• of Buddhism.
Originally posted by sinweiy:wah, zero's post got hidden meaning..hehe ..nice. :)
Dharma is from nature, it belong to all.
i think MCK is a good Buddhist. he's helping to promote peace in the world. say if u go and promote Buddhist sutra in the school, or educational system, or ask a freethinker to study, they will think u are asking for convert.
/\
U are not being straight, wenyi. Those twisting and turning, finding excuses for MJK. Is that the MJK sect code of conduct? Nice demeanour but not able to talk straight?
MJK could advocate to the schools, and educational system to teach Di Zi Gui. For civic moral education. Thats a wonderful idea. Its a great and good book Di Zi Gui. But he shouldn't be preaching to all people that Di Zi Gui as entry and foundation to Buddhism. Because he is a Buddhist and a Dharma Master representing Buddhism.
Originally posted by geis:talk less, practice more
such discussions have little support for actual practice, at best a little short of rumor mongering.
sorry if this post sounds bad.
This is actual practice. Its Mahayana Buddhism. If many people are mislead by some all charming person, shouldn't one voice out the concern, warning people about it? Its not a rumor. Di Zi Gui is not a Buddhist book.
Zenist69 can you post the article that MJK said that Di zi Gui is the entry and foundation of Buddhism? Have you mis-interpreted what he meant to convey?
Secondly, what do you think then should be the entry and foundation of Buddhism?
Thirdly, as a buddhist, what else do you study/chant/read beside Amituofo ? Don't tell me that is all you know and then you conclude that you are a Buddhist.