The whole idea of setting up this site is so that people can come here to share information and encourage one another to seek the Truth. Let's not get too overly work up over certain differences in views. If you feel that my sharings do not benefit anyone, I am more than willing and happy to delete them off so that everyone is at peace. I do not wish to hurt anyone's feelings here. That was never my intentions. Even if anyone say anything negative about my teacher, so be it. To each his own. I am fine with that. Life is short, let's make the best out of it and be happy and at peace in our heart so that we can make this world a better place for all.
enlightened, life goes on,
unenlightened, life goes on.
the unenlightened wants to be enlightened,
the enlightened lets go of enlightenment.
let go and let live
May all have a blessed lunar new year! immerse in the festivities and see the dharma :)
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Many defilements is natural and unavoidable before enlightenment
Prior to sotapanna stage, everybody has 10 defilements.
Prior to sakadagami stage, everyone has at least 7 defilements
Prior to anagami stage, everyone has at least 7 defilements but 2 are weakened after attaining sakadagami
Prior to Arhat stage, everyone has at least 5 defilements.
After arhat, no more defilements.
In the Bodhisattva bhumi stages, they also have a rather similar model where defilements are gradually removed.
If you don't have defilements to begin with, something is very wrong.
If think you don't have defilements, you just aren't seeing clearly.
If you don't have defilements, why bother to practice in the first place?
Have confidence that this life is enough to become enlightened whether or not you practiced before or not. And if you are reading this and have an interest in this, chances are you probably have certain karmic conditions there.
In the Mahasatipatthana sutta, the Buddha said that those who practices the four foundations of mindfulness attains Anagami or Arhatship in 7 days, much less 7 months or 7 years. In the commentaries, it further explains that those of low calibre attains that in 7 years, those of high calibre attains in 7 days.
I am very low calibre already, I have not attained insight in 7 days, and I have not even attained Anagami or Arhatship.
Insight shouldn't take more than 7 years if one has the proper teaching, view, technique, etc.
Basic point I want to point out: you don't remove afflictions (in fact: can't) in order to end ignorance, you end ignorance via realization in order to remove afflictions.
OK.
Hmm... the analogy of the scholar and master doesn't apply to me, because I am no scholar, just a practitioner reporting what I have experienced and seen (though it is not only me who have experienced and seen the same things in this forum, simply ask Thusness or Simpo in this forum - they too have gone through the same phases).
I am fine with posting things from others - but I am ruthless and fearless so to speak, in speaking out my mind when necessary. There is a site called 'ruthless truth' - I like that title. As I see it, when it comes to spirituality, respect is out of question - it is about objective truth, and sometimes blind faith can hinder seeing. This goes even to Buddhist masters and teachers (as geis knows, I comment on certain Buddhist teachers as well) so please don't misunderstand that I'm being biased towards Buddhism.
Originally posted by Urdhaytb:The whole idea of setting up this site is so that people can come here to share information and encourage one another to seek the Truth. Let's not get too overly work up over certain differences in views. If you feel that my sharings do not benefit anyone, I am more than willing and happy to delete them off so that everyone is at peace. I do not wish to hurt anyone's feelings here. That was never my intentions. Even if anyone say anything negative about my teacher, so be it. To each his own. I am fine with that. Life is short, let's make the best out of it and be happy and at peace in our heart so that we can make this world a better place for all.
Originally posted by Weychin:This is predominantly a Buddhist forum, as such there is an adherence to Buddhist way of conduct however, albeit loosely. If this were only forum of united nations of various belief, certain things would glossed over or sugar coated,or social lubrication , I like to say. The article has been posted over (http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/421542?p…). But for your benefit, I reposted it again, a fundamental in Buddhism, free inquiry:-
Just like to clarify: this forum is totally ok with posting non-Buddhist materials - but as far as right view is concerned, I have to point out. Also, the different phases of insight and experience, it is also good for a practitioner to know.
Sometimes a master or teacher can point out something that helps the practitioner progress... but up till a certain point, it then becomes a hindrance, if one invests too much faith in that teacher and stops investigating.
Still, I still recommend Eckhart Tolle books to people (recently to my family members) even though it only leads to the I AM stage. I believe it can help them progress spiritually.
Originally posted by Weychin:I’m more into the business of not feeling crappy , as such I find the Teachings of the Buddha, the Dharma, very enlightening , very effective and I continue to learn and benefit from it.
This is good. Nevertheless... notice that feeling crappy still happens at times and is unavoidable as long as the illusion of self persists. The illusion of self leads to the sense of rejection and separation from a perceived hostile world (separate from oneself). When the illusion of self is deconstructed, there is pure delight and wonder at the most ordinary sensory experiences. Stripped of stories and affective feelings. Even unpleasant sensations are wonderful and alive. Everything is wonderful and alive. Incredible delight, joy, bliss arises.
Originally posted by geis:enlightened, life goes on,
unenlightened, life goes on.
the unenlightened wants to be enlightened,
the enlightened lets go of enlightenment.
let go and let live
May all have a blessed lunar new year! immerse in the festivities and see the dharma :)
There is also nobody to let go and let live... life lives on regardless, and is letting go of itself every moment, only that we take it too seriously and take it to be real and then grasp on our illusions. ;) No trace of enlightenment remains with the dropping away of the self... and this traceless enlightenment goes on and on as life goes on and on.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:This is good. Nevertheless... notice that feeling crappy still happens at times and is unavoidable as long as the illusion of self persists. The illusion of self leads to the sense of rejection and separation from a perceived hostile world (separate from oneself). When the illusion of self is deconstructed, there is pure delight and wonder at the most ordinary sensory experiences. Stripped of stories and affective feelings. Even unpleasant sensations are wonderful and alive. Everything is wonderful and alive. Incredible delight, joy, bliss arises.
I remember meeting Thusness years ago and he was telling someone, look, you cannot imagine the bliss I am experiencing right now...
And I have no idea what he meant at that time.
Now, I also want to tell others, look, you cannot imagine the bliss I am experiencing right now...
But it is not an altered state of consciousness, it is not a mystical state, it is simply pure delight, joy, wonder of the present experience.
Originally posted by Wiser:
I find it with California Zen Master Adyashanti, there is a video of Adyashanti
on this website, not saying anything, just 5 whole mins of looking at you.
But you will feel something from his pure gaze.
His written articles are lovely words. His videos is captivating.
There is a great space
in which this moment takes space
There is a great silence
that is listening to the thoughts ~~ Adyashanti
I have read some of his books, found them quite helpful...
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Many defilements is natural and unavoidable before enlightenment
Prior to sotapanna stage, everybody has 10 defilements.
Prior to sakadagami stage, everyone has at least 7 defilements
Prior to anagami stage, everyone has at least 7 defilements but 2 are weakened after attaining sakadagami
Prior to Arhat stage, everyone has at least 5 defilements.
After arhat, no more defilements.
In the Bodhisattva bhumi stages, they also have a rather similar model where defilements are gradually removed.
If you don't have defilements to begin with, something is very wrong.
If think you don't have defilements, you just aren't seeing clearly.
If you don't have defilements, why bother to practice in the first place?
Have confidence that this life is enough to become enlightened whether or not you practiced before or not. And if you are reading this and have an interest in this, chances are you probably have certain karmic conditions there.
In the Mahasatipatthana sutta, the Buddha said that those who practices the four foundations of mindfulness attains Anagami or Arhatship in 7 days, much less 7 months or 7 years. In the commentaries, it further explains that those of low calibre attains that in 7 years, those of high calibre attains in 7 days.
I am very low calibre already, I have not attained insight in 7 days, and I have not even attained Anagami or Arhatship.
Insight shouldn't take more than 7 years if one has the proper teaching, view, technique, etc.
Basic point I want to point out: you don't remove afflictions (in fact: can't) in order to end ignorance, you end ignorance via realization in order to remove afflictions.
Judith Blackstone, 'The Empathic Ground':
"Although nondual realization is considered, in Asian spiritual traditions to be an advanced level of spiritual attainment, I have found that for many people it is easily accessible. It is important to understand that nondual realization is a process. Complete nondual realization is said to be extremely rare, if it is possible at all. But an initial realization requires between one and three years of consistent practice intention."
Basically any practice that can shock you into seeing what is really going on is acceptable. But understand, you want to know what's really going on, to feel it, to contact reality. It shouldn’t take long, a few years at most, less for some. If a practice or a teacher tells you it will take 10 or 20 years, find a new practice or teacher. Remember you are your own salvation, ultimately it is you who will wake you up. Any method that can shock you into seeing what is really going on is acceptable but the perspective shift must occur.
~ Steven Norquist, "What is enlightenment, no, I mean really, like what is it?"
Originally posted by wisdomeye:I have read some of his books, found them quite helpful...
I like Adyashanti's book 'True Meditation' - contains good practical advice on meditation and self-inquiry practice. Other self-inquiry related books (if one is so inclined towards this practice) I would recommend are those of Sri Ramana Maharshi and Ch'an Master Hsu Yun.
Adyashanti's earlier books are at the I AM phase, the more recent ones show that he has progressed to the substantialist non-dual level of insight.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I like Adyashanti's book 'True Meditation' - contains good practical advice on meditation and self-inquiry practice. Other self-inquiry related books (if one is so inclined towards this practice) I would recommend are those of Sri Ramana Maharshi and Ch'an Master Hsu Yun.
Adyashanti's earlier books are at the I AM phase, the more recent ones show that he has progressed to the substantialist non-dual level of insight.
Interesting, can you comment on why you think he is substantialist from ur memory? As far as i can remember, he seems to have not changed his POV since his second major realisation (i presume this was before his career in teaching), upon which he feels he is completed and no further to go... (which i had some doubts on)
i have read "Emptiness Dancing" and "End of the World". It helps me get into the mood.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:Interesting, can you comment on why you think he is substantialist from ur memory? As far as i can remember, he seems to have not changed his POV since his second major realisation (i presume this was before his career in teaching), upon which he feels he is completed and no further to go... (which i had some doubts on)
i have read "Emptiness Dancing" and "End of the World". It helps me get into the mood.
Emptiness Dancing and End of the World are written at different phases of Adyashanti's development.
Emptiness Dancing, True Meditation, and all books prior to that are all about the I AM and Eternal Witness phase. It's all about realizing the I AM, the pure beingness that underlies all forms and beings.
In End of the World, he has progressed into Thusness Stage 4. He no longer sees the division between witness and experience, or emptiness and forms. He even writes a chapter ("Being Stuck In The Witness") in which he talked about how he got stuck at the Witness phase previously but has now gone beyond it.
But whatever he said is still nothing about Anatta... it is the One Mind phase.
It's all over the book so I don't have to quote... you just need to be able to discern what are the different phases of insights, then you can see that the difference is as clear as daylight.
As Adyashanti himself said it in a rather recent video:
"Emptiness is not the totality of what you are. Emptiness is a profound aspect of what you are, it's a profound taste of your true nature, it's not the totality of what you are any than getting up in the morning and feeling good is the totality of what you are, or feeling bad is a totality of what you are... ...Whenever you touch upon a deep truth, suchness of reality, your true nature, each aspect feels like it's total and complete and all-inclusive at that moment. So that's why teachers have a very hard time getting through to people when they have an initial experience of anything because if it's an initial experience of reality it feels totally complete and there is a certain innate confidence that arises within you. Not an egoic confidence but a confidence that comes from reality."
Check out: Recognising the Different Phases of Insights
At I AM phase, he thought it was final. Then he realized that's not the end... he entered the non-dual phase. And he must have thought this is final too. But it isn't.
p.s. Adyashanti talked about two enlightenment events... if I am not wrong, the first one is the first insight into I AMness. The second awakening is the insight into impersonality. Basically, Thusness Stage 1, followed by Thusness Stage 2.
Originally posted by realization:I heard you say this (we can all be enlightened) more than once... but I really do wonder about a person like myself with still so many defilements. I feel it might take a few lifetimes, unless I aim for Pureland. Don't know why I think like that, but I feel like a sinner.
It's heartening to hear that there are living enlightened beings, but just wondering if maybe they cultivated for many lifetimes, and that's why they achieved it this time round. I read bits and pieces about your realizations (your writing is lengthy, haha) and I cannot help but wonder maybe you practised well in previous incarnations, and that's why you can realize quickly now despite your young age.
Thrangu Rinpoche:
"One night Rechungpa was dreaming that he was in a realm where the stories of the lives of great masters were being told. They were wonderful accounts. Some dakinis said, "These are wonderful, but it would be much more wonderful to only hear about the life of Milarepa. It is much more important." They asked, "Who is going to tell the life story of Milarepa?" Rechungpa noticed that some dakinis were pointing at him. When he woke up, he went to see Milarepa and told him, "I asked for an received all these meditation instructions from you, but I have never asked you to tell the story of your life. Based on what you have accomplished, you can't be an ordinary person. You must be an emanation of someone like vajrapani or one of the Buddhas of the five families." He then asked Milarepa, "Please tell the story of your life, how you developed your diligence, how you developed realization, and how you attained the result."
Milarepa told rechungpa, "You think that I am an emanation of someone. This is an expression of your faith and pure vision of me, but in terms of the dharma it is the wrong view because I am not an emanation of the Buddha. I am not an emanation of a bodhisattva. I am an emanation of nothing. I am merely an ordinary person. Not only am I an ordinary being, I had such bad karma because I practiced sorcery and I brought hailstorms down on people and killed them. Your belief that I am not an ordinary person is incorrect because this view actually denies the power of the dharma. I was an ordinary person with extremely bad karma, but due to the power of the dharma I met my master Marpa who gave me instructions, and I practiced these with diligence. Through this effort I was able to purify my bad karma and attain the result." Thus, you should not think that the dharma doesn't have that power. On the contrary, even someone with very bad karma can purify it and attain Buddhahood in this lifetime if he or she practices diligently."
This story also reminds me of how Angulimala killed almost a thousand person, but was converted by Buddha and later attained Nirvana.
It is incorrect to think of practitioners with realizations as having to do with past life emanations. Most of them are actually very ordinary people. It is just that due to the good conditions, having met the dharma, and having known good teachers, we are being transformed by the power of dharma. You too, can be transformed by the power of dharma, regardless of how bad your karma is or how low your capacity is.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:As Adyashanti himself said it in a rather recent video:
"Emptiness is not the totality of what you are. Emptiness is a profound aspect of what you are, it's a profound taste of your true nature, it's not the totality of what you are any than getting up in the morning and feeling good is the totality of what you are, or feeling bad is a totality of what you are... ...Whenever you touch upon a deep truth, suchness of reality, your true nature, each aspect feels like it's total and complete and all-inclusive at that moment. So that's why teachers have a very hard time getting through to people when they have an initial experience of anything because if it's an initial experience of reality it feels totally complete and there is a certain innate confidence that arises within you. Not an egoic confidence but a confidence that comes from reality."
Check out: Recognising the Different Phases of Insights
At I AM phase, he thought it was final. Then he realized that's not the end... he entered the non-dual phase. And he must have thought this is final too. But it isn't.
p.s. Adyashanti talked about two enlightenment events... if I am not wrong, the first one is the first insight into I AMness. The second awakening is the insight into impersonality. Basically, Thusness Stage 1, followed by Thusness Stage 2.
ok, thanks for the clarification. I'd look out for the things you pointed out if i get the chance to read the books again. because when i read the book, i jumped to chapters randomly. But somehow his talks gives a sense of spaciousness and inspires to look at mind. Just as reading on mind nature or your posts help. Thanks.
Hi,
I just wanted to add my two cents to this thread.
In my own experience, all past experiences don't really lead anywhere.
If anything all they do is bring about a greater appreciation of the freedom and wholeness of this present moment.
So seeking truth in any words, or any appearance or meaning... is just another way of solidifying yourself around certain concepts and beliefs.
What is more useful in my own opinion, is to let go of all this need to express outwardly and see that nothing is really needed in this moment, nothing need change or happen for this moment to be as it is.
Any idea whatsoever about truth is just that, just another idea, is that really necessary? Does this really need to be picked apart and understood? Or is it simply what it is? Can you really come to any real conclusions about yourself or life? Or is it simply the way the it is?
I'm not really trying to convey anything here, except perhaps the peace and freedom in dropping all of it, which i guess, in the end, is still saying too much! :)