Just pondering, if we look at this way, but at the risk of being overly-simplifiying
things, could the workings of karma be interpreted as actions of their God in other religions? "Good" people who did "Good" deeds were rewarded by God, the opposite from God would be "expected" for "Bad" people. In Buddhism, the same concept is interpreted in the cause and effect relationships. What are your views on this?
Originally posted by *=Optimus=*:Just pondering, if we look at this way, but at the risk of being overly-simplifiying
things, could the workings of karma be interpreted as actions of their God in other religions? "Good" people who did "Good" deeds were rewarded by God, the opposite from God would be "expected" for "Bad" people. In Buddhism, the same concept is interpreted in the cause and effect relationships. What are your views on this?
It is a totally different understanding, because the monotheistic religions think there is a supernatural being high up above judging the deeds of people, whereas Buddha understands the intricate law of cause and effect happening every moment. The law of cause and effect of karma is an impersonal, universal, and natural law that requires (in fact, no one can change it) no other being - only your own actions and intentions.
Once again at the expense of oversimplication, I was thinking, maybe the cause and effect relationship observed by man led them to believe on the existance of a higher up being.
Originally posted by *=Optimus=*:Once again at the expense of oversimplication, I was thinking, maybe the cause and effect relationship observed by man led them to believe on the existance of a higher up being.
That could certainly be possible. There are many explanations on how the belief in supernatural being came about. Many point out that primitive people, being unable to understand the universe and phenomena like thunder, rain, eclipses, etc, thought of the universe as being controlled by some supernatural being much more powerful than them. And thus being at the mercy of these universal phenomena, they start worshipping the supernatural hoping that it will be of benefit to them. This belief then gradually evolved into other forms of monotheism and God-belief.
The Buddha too, had an explanation of how the belief in God started. I'm not saying that this is his explanation of the origins of Judeo-Christian tradition, I'm just saying this is *one* of the explanations provided so far particularly on the belief in a Brahma or Creator God.
Here is what he said:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/theravada/brahma1.htm#9
The First Category of Ekacca Sassata Ditthi
39. There, indeed, is such a time, bhikkhus, as when this world system gets dissolved, as it does at times, after a lapse of many aeons. When the world system becomes thus dissolved, beings are reborn mostly in the Abhassara2 plane of existence (of radiant Brahmas). When they are born there because of jhana mind, they are nurtured by rapture, resplendent with light from their own bodies, sojourning in the heavens and living in splendour. And they remain there for aeons.
2. Abhassara: The Abhassara plane of existence, to which Brahmas of flashing radiance belong, is the third of the three Second jhana Brahma realms in the thirty-one planes of existence. See. Appendix A5 for the thirty-one planes of existence.
40. There, indeed, is such a time, bhikkhus, as when this world system rises again, as it does at times, after a lapse of many aeons. When the world system thus rises again, there appears a palatial Brahma-abode (brahma-vimana, one or all three of Brahma realms of first jhana), void of all life. At that time, a certain being from the Abhassara plane of existence dies, either at the end of his span of life, or on the exhaustion of the stock of his meritorious deeds, and is reborn in that empty palatial Brahma realm. When he is born there because of jhana mind, he is nurtured by rapture, resplendent with light from his own body, sojourning in the heavens and living in splendour. Thus he re mains there for aeons.
41. Living there alone for aeons, there arises in him mental weariness and a longing for company thus: "Would that some other beings come to this place!" And then other beings from the Abhassara plane of existence die either at the end of their span of life, or on the exhaustion of the stock of their meritorious deeds, and are reborn in that palatial Brahma realm. When they are born there because of jhana mind, they are nurtured by rapture, resplendent with light from their own bodies, sojourning in the heavens and living in splendour. Thus they remain there for aeons.
42. Then, bhikkhus, the being who was the first to be reborn there thinks to himself thus:
"I am the Brahma, the great Brahma, the conqueror, the unconquered, the all-seeing, the subjector of all to his wishes, the omnipotent, the maker, the creator, the supreme, the controller, the one confirmed in the practice of jhana, and father to all that have been and shall be. I have created these other beings. Why can I say so? I can say so because a while ago I thought to myself: 'Would that some other beings come to this place!' As I wished so, other beings have appeared in this place."
And then other beings who appeared later think to themselves:
"This honourable personage is the Brahma, the great Brahma, the conqueror, the unconquered, the all-seeing, the subjector of all to his wishes, the omnipotent, the maker, the creator, the supreme, the controller, the one confirmed in the practice of jhana, and father to all that have been and shall be. This honourable Brahma has created us. Why can we say so? We can say so because, as we see, he appeared in this place first, whereas we appeared only after him."
43. Among them, bhikkhus, the one who appeared first lives longer, and is more beautiful and more powerful (than the others). Those beings who appeared later have a shorter life, and are less beautiful and less powerful (than the one who first appeared).
44. Then, bhikkhus, there arises this possibility. A being dies in the Brahma plane of existence and is reborn in this human world; and there he renounces the worldly life for the homeless life of a recluse. And having thus renounced the worldly life and become a homeless recluse, he achieves utmost mental concentration by dint of ardent, steadfast, persevering exertion, mindfulness and right attentiveness. Having established his mind in highest concentration, he can recollect that former existence (of a Brahma); but he cannot recollect beyond that.
He says thus:
"That honourable personage is the Brahma, the great Brahma, the conqueror, the unconquered, the all-seeing, the subjector of all to his wishes, the omnipotent, the maker, the creator, the supreme, the controller, the one confirmed in the practice of jhana, and father to all that have been and shall be. That honourable Brahma has created us. He is permanent, stable, eternal, immutable and as everlasting as all things eternal. We, who were created by the honourable Brahma, are impermanent, changeable, short-lived and mortal. Thus have we come into this human world."
This, bhikkhus, is the first possibility. It is based on this, holding on to this, that some samanas and brahmanas, holding the dualistic view of eternity and non-eternity, propound that atta as well as loka is in some cases eternal and in others not eternal. (4+1=5)
Originally posted by *=Optimus=*:Just pondering, if we look at this way, but at the risk of being overly-simplifiying
things, could the workings of karma be interpreted as actions of their God in other religions? "Good" people who did "Good" deeds were rewarded by God, the opposite from God would be "expected" for "Bad" people. In Buddhism, the same concept is interpreted in the cause and effect relationships. What are your views on this?
Non-religious spiritual info:
Law of Karma and Cause and Effect is one of the many Universal Laws. It's like an automated engine/processor running on its own, affecting every being in the Universe, every moment of their existence, no matter which part of the Universe they are in. "Creator/Source/God/Consciousness-of-All-That-Is" (literal names really have little meaning) does not need to 'judge' anyone, though it's often perceived that way, because of belief systems.
Seriously, there are far more important and complex things going on in our Universe than bothering about how each human conducts his/her life on Earth. Daily life on Earth is considered a very basic flow as part of the Universe, just like our breathing pattern. There's no need to 'Consciously' control/manage it; it will function on its own, no matter how 'complex' people think/feel their lives are.
All the relevant Universal Laws and each person's unique lifeplan will ensure that people's lives proceed as they are meant to, within the allowed boundaries of freewill, like a super complex computer program that handles both expected scenarios and exception cases. However, for more complex actions that are not part of the basic flow, then 'Super Conscious' management is required. This is a 3D explanation for a really far more complex 'process' that makes 'self-management' of physical lives very simple. :)
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life