Prior to Consciousness
-
Hi, just a sharing from a book 'The Light Behind Consciousness' by John Wheeler.
I'm also interested to hear comments from Thusness and Longchen on these articles. And what is the defining characteristic/difference between the experience of 'Consciousness/Impersonal Witness/I Am' and the 'Absolute/Awareness/Awareness-Unaware-Of-Itself' that John Wheeler (and Nisargadatta Maharaj whom John traces his lineage from) talked about? All I 'know' is that I am undeniably present and aware and this presence-awareness is ever-present, whether it is called Consciousness, or Awareness or I Am, I can't see the difference.
update: on hindsight, during deep sleep it does seem that any types of consciousness has faded into oblivion... sometimes when I woke up I wonder 'where has my consciousness gone to while I slept' even though presence-awareness can never be lost since it is ever-present... so this is the 'awareness unaware of itself' since it does not have any objects to reflect it's presence? Hence, consciousness does indeed come and go on the screen of awareness. Presence-Awareness cannot say it is present (become self-conscious) or create a sense of being or self without reflecting upon itself via the body-mind instrument/object, and being so is prior to consciousness... and is utterly incomprehensible (since comprehension = consciousness)... we can only dissolve into It by letting go/disidentifying from all 'knowing' and 'self-consciousness'. (?)
Another question: some practitioners are able to maintain Pure Witnessing 24/7 into dream and deep sleep... and as Ken Wilber (who himself is able to achieve this) himself said, this will come only after about 20 years of meditative practice. But if the above perspective is correct, then that is not necessary since grasping onto any form of self-consciousness is still not 'accessing' the Absolute, right? Why not just let go into awareness unaware of itself?
Speaking of this, it just reminded me of what Thusness told me 4 years ago:
"There is nothing wrong with the experience of Presence, but it is the attachment (that hinders). It is the subtle attachment that prevents us from deep sleep because we are unwilling to let go of that experience (even into sleep). Though one will not feel anything wrong or it does not disturb one much, it is not a form of achievement as described. It is a retrogression instead. When one is able to let go and let everything subside, even the loss of consciousness, it is a more profound state instead. It has to be a natural momentum that is being built up, until the propensities is gone, the letting go is complete, it is illuminated everywhere."
and his reply and comment on my non-dual experience in Death, Consciousness, Nondual Perception:
Kok ur head! Ur mind is full of attainments and fruitions. Nirodha Samapatti is a definite fruition of anagami and arahat. I have no comments.I am merely telling you that it is too early to conclude as follow:
and suddenly, it feels like "I" completely died and disappeared.. But instead of losing consciousness...
...Anyway I learnt from this that 'death' is not as scary as we might think and in fact is quite blissful.
Associating 'death of I' with vivid luminosity of your experience is far too early. This will lead you into erroneous views because there is also the experience of practitioners by way of complete surrendering or elimination (dropping) like Taoist practitioners. An experience of deep bliss that is beyond that of what you experienced can occur. But the focus is not on luminosity but effortlessness, naturalness and spontaneity. In complete giving up, there is no 'I' ; it is also needless to know anything; in fact 'knowledge' is considered a stumbling block. The practitioner drops away mind, body, knowledge...everything. There is no insight, there is no luminosity there is only total allowing of whatever that happens, happen in its own accord. All senses including consciousness are shut and fully absorbed. Awareness of 'anything' is only after emerging from that state.
One is the experience of vivid luminosity while the other is a state of oblivious. It is therefore not appropriate to relate the complete dissolving of 'I' with what u experienced alone.Furthermore Nisargadatta Maharaj said:
"Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience."
Anyway the John Wheeler quotes.
John Wheeler (from this week's pointer):
http://www.naturalstate.us/pointers.html
When consciousness dawns upon arising from sleep, it is simply pure "knowing that I am". It is not individual, and is in fact impersonal and unlimited. The notion of a limited self or "me" spins up in the subsequent conceptualizing in the mind after consciousness has already arisen. But don't forget that your real position is the ever-present reality on which waking (consciousness) and sleep (unconsciousness) both appear.
A lot of people come up to the level of consciousness or recognizing the sense of being and take that as the absolute. Here they get stuck and mistake the dawn for the noon, so to speak. The "knowing that I am" or state of consciousness is the first eruption or modification on the absolute, eternal state. People generally miss the fact that consciousness is an intermittent appearance. It is the first modification on the absolute and the beginning of duality. What people are often expounding as reality is really the root of the illusion! What is prior to consciousness — which is what you really are — cannot properly be named. Whatever term is used is only a pointer. Sure, it may be pointed to as consciousness, awareness, being, emptiness, etc. but these are provisional pointers only. In the end, even these are discarded. Even statements like "I am consciousness", "consciousness is all there is", "there is no one here", etc., are only mental concepts. So don't settle for pointers! Let the pointers go and BE what is being pointed to.
http://www.non-dualitypress.com/sample/The%20Light%20Behind%20Consciousness_sample.pdf
(excerpts)
Reality Beyond Consciousness
Reality is beyond all characteristics, even of being, consciousness,
emptiness or any other designation. To ‘awaken’ to your
identity as being, consciousness, oneness, presence, emptiness
or what have you is still moving in the realm of phenomena
as an imagined entity. Your essential nature is prior to the
sense of consciousness and being. There is something in you
that knows the sense of being conscious and present. That is
your real nature. It is forever unknowable as an object. It is
beyond being and non-being, consciousness and unconsciousness.
There is a temptation to take reality to be the sense of
being, presence, consciousness, aliveness or even something
more objective, such as stillness or a peaceful state. But all
those things are objective. You know them. What you are is
evidently beyond them all.
At some point, there may arise a resonance with the
pointer that there is something prior to consciousness, prior
to being, prior to peace, prior to oneness, prior to emptiness.
Why? Because all of those, however subtle, are conditioned
states. They are experiences that can be grasped, understood
or recognized. Even the sense of ‘I am’ is an appearance. It has
appeared upon your true nature. It is the primary concept orexperience, which is the basis of all other experiences. Without
the sense of ‘I am’, there can be no other experiences. You
are beyond all experience, even the experience of ‘I am’.
At the core of the mind is an empty space, a void through
which the primordial, non-conceptual reality shines forth as
consciousness. The whole world appears in the light of consciousness.
Consciousness itself is a time-bound, phenomenal
state, an appearance on that unconditioned source which is
prior to consciousness. Reality is non-conceptual awareness
that does not even know that it is. Simply put, you are the
one who is aware of being and of being conscious. That ‘you’
is entirely beyond the body, senses, mind, consciousness and
anything else that can be perceived or conceived. It cannot be
grasped or even be understood, because it is what you are.Prior to Consciousness
When you awake in the morning, consciousness dawns.
In this state of being conscious, you perceive a body, mind
and world. These are appearances only, not what you are in
essence. To identify oneself with any of these appearances
gives rise to the notion of being a separate person, self or
individual entity. This is the cause of all seeking, suffering
and doubts. Consciousness is a state that comes and goes.
In sleep, unconsciousness or under anesthesia, the experience
of being conscious subsides. So it is clearly a transitory
state. However, before you awoke and became conscious
of anything else, including the fact of being conscious, you
existed. Consciousness happened to you who were there to
experience it.
Your fundamental position is prior to consciousness. From
this non-conceptual source, which is what you are, arises initially
the sense of conscious presence. This is also the sense of
being, the experience that ‘I am’, or the bare fact of knowing
that you are. This is the first appearance upon your original
state. Little can be said about your essential nature because it
is clearly beyond all concepts and even prior to consciousness.
Some pointers that have been used are: non-conceptual awareness,
awareness unaware of itself, pure being (beyond being
and non-being), the absolute, the unmanifest, noumenon,
cognizing emptiness, no-thing-ness—to name a few.
This non-conceptual essence is pure non-duality or unicity
in which the notions of both subject and object are merged.
Just as the sun does not know light because it is light, so you
do not know your original nature (as an object) because you
are that. It is forever beyond the grasp of concepts and subject-
object knowledge. Yet it is entirely evident and inescapable
as that which allows you to say with utter certitude ‘I
am’ and ‘I know that I am’. Even when those words subside,
you are. Even when the consciousness that knows those wordssubsides, you are. Consciousness is the light of creation. But
you are the primordial non-conceptual awareness, being or
‘no-thing-ness’ in which consciousness and all subsequent
appearances come and go.The Analogy of the Sun
To understand your true nature, consider the sun. Imagine
you are the sun shining in space with no other objects
present. You are present and shining, and yet you see nothing—
neither light, other objects, nor yourself. Why? Because
you are singular and there are no objects available to reflect
your light and confirm your presence objectively. Should an
object appear, you perceive your light reflected in that object
and become conscious of something that appears as other or
apart. In truth, you are only perceiving your own light, nothing
else. The object is the means for you to perceive yourself
indirectly. The reflected light takes the apparent form and
location of the object. The reflected light may in turn light up
other objects. The perception of light is time bound because
it lasts only so long as the objects are present. Without any
object, you (as the sun) revert back to your unmanifested,
original condition (that is, the shining sun that sees nothing
at all, including its own light).
This analogy is parallel to your own original state or true
nature. Your essence is pure non-duality, one without a second,
which we might point to as non-conceptual awareness
or pure being that is unaware of its awareness and without a
sense of its own existence. When the mind, body and objects
appear, they are perceived as objects in consciousness, which
is the objective manifestation of your innate, aware presence.
Consciousness is like the reflected sunlight. The state
of being conscious arises along with the body-mind and
appears limited to the time, place and presence of the bodymind.
The body-mind ‘gives birth’ to consciousness. When
the body-mind subsides, the consciousness of objects also
subsides. Consciousness appears as a transient state on your
original condition. It is intimately tied to the presence of the
body-mind, which reflects the light of awareness, allowing
consciousness to manifest in a tangible way. With the risingof the body-mind in our experience, you have the instruments
to say, ‘I am’, ‘I am present’, ‘I know’, ‘I am conscious’.
So the presence of the body-mind is a necessary requirement
for consciousness to manifest and for awareness to
become aware that it is. Just as sunlight and reflected sunlight
are really not two separate things, neither are non-dual awareness
and manifested consciousness actually different. With the
appearance of the body-mind, we become conscious, we know
‘we are’. And with the rise of the sense of being conscious, all
other objects are then known. Consciousness itself is really
an object or experience, since it is a state that appears to you.
With the subsidence of the experience of the body-mind, consciousness
also departs. It ‘returns’ to its source of non-dual
awareness or being. But nothing happens to you at all. In none
of this have you ever left your original condition. You were,
are and ever must be the timeless, unconditioned, non-dual
being-awareness beyond body, mind and consciousness.Back to the Sperm and the Egg
Take it back to the sperm and the egg. When they came
together, life-energy infused the fetus and consciousness
began to manifest in that body. Following birth, the sense of
consciousness gradually matured. The world of experience
appeared within consciousness, when you came to know
‘I am’. Without consciousness, there is no world. Clearly,
all things appearing in the field of consciousness, including
the body-mind and everything perceivable and conceivable,
depend on consciousness. They are impermanent and cannot
be the abiding essence of what you are.
What is often missed is that consciousness itself, the basis
of the appearance, is also time-bound. You are that which was
present before consciousness appeared on you. Before consciousness
appeared, you were, but you did not know yourself
or have any sense of existence. That is the absolute, non-dual
or perfect state. You often hear that you are consciousness,
presence, the witness or the stillness beyond thought. This is
only an initial pointer that is useful to free you from a grosser
identification with the body, mind and personality. But to
stop there and identify yourself as consciousness, presence or
stillness is an error. Consciousness is not what you are ultimately.
In fact, consciousness is the initial movement upon the
unmanifest that gives rise to duality. Consciousness is duality
itself. You are prior to consciousness, prior to being, prior to
presence, prior to the knower, prior to stillness. Spirituality
takes place in the domain of consciousness and is in duality.
You are offered things to do, achieve and attain, because reality
is being viewed through the lens of becoming and time. The
overt or subtle message is that there is some state that you
will get in the future. Abandon all such dubious concepts and
be what you already are—the timeless, inconceivable absolute
that is prior to the body, mind and personality—even prior to
consciousness and being.Non-Conceptual Awareness
Your true nature is non-conceptual awareness. This is the
necessary ground of all experiences, even the presence and
absence of being conscious (as in waking and dreaming) or
unconscious (as in deep sleep). You are not the appearances
or even the states of consciousness that come and go. You
are to whom they appear. Seeing this, you can drop all the
labels and just be what you are. The term ‘presence-awareness’
is another pointer to your natural state prior to consciousness.
Consciousness is sometimes referred to as the ‘I
am’ or witness. Presence-awareness equates with non-conceptual
awareness itself, the absolute, which is what you are.
This is the basis of all appearances, including the sense of
‘I am’. After all, you do not have the sense or thought of ‘I
am’ in sleep. So the sense of ‘I am’ comes and goes. But you
are there in sleep and all states as the basic aware-presence
itself. ‘I am’ and the ego are not the same. Ego is the notion
of being a separate person, which is based on identifying
oneself as the body, mind and/or personality. When you see
that you are not that concept (the separate person), you see
yourself as the impersonal consciousness or witness in which
all experiences rise and set. But actually, your fundamental
identity lies beyond (or prior to) this. You are the non-conceptual
presence-awareness in which even the witness and
the world of experiences come and go. That is the absolute or
ultimate state. That is your natural condition even now, for
you are aware not only of appearances, but the fact of being
conscious or witnessing also. So you must be the awareness
beyond all states, experiences and concepts.The Absolute, Unconditioned Reality
The world of our everyday experience consists of the various
things we sense and interact with, including external objects
and our own bodies. We also experience an internal world
of thoughts and feelings. To experience any of these things
requires the presence of consciousness. How many thoughts,
feelings or experiences could we have apart from consciousness?
This is a simple point that is usually overlooked. In
non-duality, primacy is given to consciousness as the basic
fact of experience. In fact, at the level of appearances, consciousness
is what you are, because it is the only continuously
present factor in our experience. The world, mind and
body appear as objects within consciousness. They have no
independent existence apart from being perceived in consciousness.
To overlook one’s real position as the conscious
knowing presence and identify oneself with the body is due
to a basic misunderstanding, a conceptual error. The body
is an object that appears in consciousness. You are the one
to whom it appears. Essentially, the body, mind and world
are fleeting and insubstantial appearances coming and going
within consciousness. Relatively speaking, consciousness is
more enduring, more substantial and more ‘real’ than the
appearances. Because most of us are ignorantly identified as
the body and mind, a first step in clarifying our identity is
to see our identity as consciousness rather than any of the
objects of consciousness.
Because objects only exist in consciousness and have no
independent reality, we can view them as manifestations or
appearances of consciousness, much as waves have no independent
reality but are only appearances of the underlying
water which is their substratum. In the wave analogy, all that
is present is water. The wave is just a label for something that
appears but has no independent existence as a thing apart
from its source. In terms of consciousness, this means thatthe objects (body, mind and world) do not exist as independent
realities as such. It is consciousness alone that exists. This
means that there has never been an actual independent body,
mind or world at all. All of those things are only appearances
of consciousness. All that is truly present in and through all
experiencing is consciousness alone.
Consciousness itself is not a continuous or unchanging
experience in and of itself. In waking and dreaming, consciousness
is present, but in deep sleep we do not experience the
fact of being conscious. It is not that we disappear, for some
presence or essence continues as the backdrop of sleep, and
that something subsequently experiences the re-emergence
of consciousness and its objects. From this perspective, we
can view consciousness itself as an experience that comes and
goes. It is only after the appearance of consciousness that we
experience the body, mind and world. These are experienced
within consciousness.
Who or what experiences the arising and setting of
consciousness? Consider the moment before consciousness
emerges. No objects are present. There is no time, space or
duality at all. It is entirely unconditioned, non-dual, without
distinctions. There is no separation, no lack, no suffering. And
yet that state is, because it is what consciousness arises from.
Consciousness is a momentary flicker that arises out of the
timeless, absolute source. The body, mind and world appear
within that flicker of consciousness. Consciousness is like a
light flashing on and off within the unconditioned absolute
state. In a certain sense, we might say that the absolute is
what cognizes the coming and going of consciousness. Just as
the world is registered in consciousness, so is consciousness
itself registered in the primal space of reality. That is why the
absolute is sometimes referred to as the pure awareness that
knows consciousness. It is the light behind consciousness. It
is the source from which consciousness derives its substance
and energy. This source is what the most radical and penetrating
presentations of spirituality are pointing to as our fundamental
and essential nature. It is not a state or experience,
because states and experiences only occur after consciousnessappears. Our fundamental identity is prior to consciousness.
That underlying and ever-present reality is the source which
enables consciousness to be conscious and for being to be, so
to speak.
What is the relationship of consciousness to that prior
source, the absolute? When we looked at the relationship of
consciousness to its objects, we saw that there really were
no separate objects, only consciousness. We can also see
that consciousness cannot stand apart from its source as a
separate independent reality. This means that consciousness
is an expression or modification of the absolute, whatever we
may choose to call that. Consciousness, which contains all
that appears in dualistic experience, is itself a ripple arising
and setting on the timeless, unconditioned, non-dual state,
which is our true reality. If consciousness is only a modification
of the absolute, non-dual reality, then consciousness as
such does not truly exist, since it has no actual independent
nature. Consciousness appears but it has never truly existed
as an independent reality. All there is, is the unconditioned,
absolute, non-dual source. That absolute reality is all there
is, and it is all that we have ever been. There has never been
anything else except this.
To speak poetically, consciousness is a fleeting ripple on the
fathomless ocean of the unconditioned, absolute reality. Consciousness
simply arises and sets as a vibration or pulsation of
the uncreated and eternal non-dual awareness. In that apparent
ripple of consciousness appear universes, worlds, living
beings and everything within the domain of time and space.
Yet no thing has ever really come to be, because objects have
never existed apart from consciousness and consciousness has
never existed apart from the absolute. That absolute is beyond
time, space, body, mind, world, being and consciousness. This
is what your true nature is at this very moment—the absolute,
unconditioned reality prior to consciousness. -
Hi,
The article is too long. I didn't read in entirety.
I can only share from own experience... please read with a pint of salt :)
For one who is abiding in presence practice, he/she will not be really concerned about describing or putting 'how things works' into a framework. He/she will have already recognised the incompleteness and inaccuracy of any form of description.
As for 'No "I" ' experience, it is not the same as the experience of complete mental formation shut down. AEN, I don't think you have that experience of complete consciousness blank-out yet.... It will be a very distinctive experience. In my case, the initial experience happened during a meditation which led me to the misassumption of 'I AM'. The experience is pure, but the latter interpretation of it was wrong.
In 'No-I' experience, one simply realised that there is no self in any experience even when consciousness is rolling own. There can be thinking, but there is no thinker.
On the other hand, in complete consciousness blank-out, yet awareness persists, there is not a single thought or any form of mental formation. Basically, there is no thinking, no mental image or any form of consciousness that we normally have. It will be distinctive because it is this experience that will allow one to see for the first time the difference between mental-mixed consciousness and pure presence.
Complete mental formation shut down and yet awareness still exist, it is not the same as sleep.
Personally, I don't see a point in maintaining witnessing even into sleep. It is really a desire to have that expereince of Presence.
Regards
-
Originally posted by longchen:
Hi,
The article is too long. I didn't read in entirety.
I can only share from own experience... please read with a pint of salt :)
For one who is abiding in presence practice, he/she will not be really concerned about describing or putting 'how things works' into a framework. He/she will have already recognised the incompleteness and inaccuracy of any form of description.
As for 'No "I" ' experience, it is not the same as the experience of complete mental formation shut down. AEN, I don't think you have that experience of complete consciousness blank-out yet.... It will be a very distinctive experience. In my case, the initial experience happened during a meditation which led me to the misassumption of 'I AM'. The experience is pure, but the latter interpretation of it was wrong.
In 'No-I' experience, one simply realised that there is no self in any experience even when consciousness is rolling own. There can be thinking, but there is no thinker.
On the other hand, in complete consciousness blank-out, yet awareness persists, there is not a single thought or any form of mental formation. Basically, there is no thinking, no mental image or any form of consciousness that we normally have. It will be distinctive because it is this experience that will allow one to see for the first time the difference between mental-mixed consciousness and pure presence.
Complete mental formation shut down and yet awareness still exist, it is not the same as sleep.
Personally, I don't see a point in maintaining witnessing even into sleep. It is really a desire to have that expereince of Presence.
Regards
Hi,
I have experienced Presence and a complete certainty of Being in a state of thoughtlessness... not a single thought as you said, however I do not know if it is the 'consciousness blank out' you mentioned... because I do not have a distinct feeling that if someone were to come and talk to me at that moment, I would be unaware of it or unable to hear it. However at that moment all I experienced is pure empty Presence and nothing else, no thought, no sound, etc. It is what remains after every thought and everything subsides... as I wrote in Certainty of Being, "As the thoughts subside, an intense and palpable sense of beingness and presence, the only 'thing' that remains that I feel to be my innermost essence."
I do agree though that probably an initial experience of Presence Awareness led on to an image of I Am... as a form of reflection of itself because otherwise it has no way to account for its existence on the mental level. Presence Awareness by itself would not be able to reflect upon itself this way and create a sense of Self (aka Consciousness). Presence Awareness would remain un-selfaware without the body-mind instrument to become self-conscious. However just because Presence Awareness is unable to reflect upon itself in states like deep sleep, does not mean it does not exist, it simply returns to its natural state of 'Awareness-Unaware-Of-Itself'... a state of potentiality where consciousness can return at any moment on the screen of Awareness. Everything depends on Presence-Awareness as the Source of all.
As John Wheeler says, The "knowing that I am" or state of consciousness is the first eruption or modification on the absolute, eternal state.
and "The body-mind ‘gives birth’ to consciousness. When
the body-mind subsides, the consciousness of objects also
subsides. Consciousness appears as a transient state on your
original condition. It is intimately tied to the presence of the
body-mind, which reflects the light of awareness, allowing
consciousness to manifest in a tangible way. With the risingof the body-mind in our experience, you have the instruments
to say, ‘I am’, ‘I am present’, ‘I know’, ‘I am conscious’."Premananda wrote about ultimately giving up the "universal I Am" to become "pure awareness",
It took me years to figure this much out. Each realization builds on and becomes possible because of the previous realizations, and the final realization can even seem to contradict a previous realization.
1. First I realize I am not all this other stuff that people usually think they are. I am not a person. The person is memories, knowledge, habits, and other false identies: "Mr. So- and-so." So I dispense with that. I can see that it is all a false identity made up by thoughts.
2. Then I realize I am not even the more intimate stuff that people usually think they are. I am not the body (that is the toughest one, as Nisargadatta points out again and again). I am not the mind or its thoughts either. I am not the chemistry of all this either. One could spend an entire lifetime and not ever get through this realization.
3. Then I realize that if I subtract all the above, what is left? Only my sense of existing itself, my sense of presence, my sense of being here, the consciousness. I realize that I am that consciousness only, the feeling of existing. I must be THAT. What IS that? It is very subtle. But now I am coming closer. This is the realization of the mystical phrase "I am that I am." And along with this stage of realization comes the realization of my universality. This realization of the "I am" brings with it the explosive understanding that there is no such thing as an individual, the "I am" is universal, everyone and every living thing is feeling it the same way. We don't ourselves create our sense of "I am." Rather we inherit the prior existing sense of presence of the original beingness which spontaneously first appeared on the background of the void, or the object-less pure awareness.
4. When I am thus established in sense of identity with this universal sense of presence, or the "I am," I am at last poised for the final realization. Remember, the realization of the "I am" is already a very high state, and many will simply stop here to enjoy living in the universal personless beingness. This is the knowledge of God and the knowledge that I am God. But some rare ones keep going and keep questioning deeper and come to the breakthrough realization that ALL beingness, even the beingness of "God" is still a form of illusion and duality, and they will realize and move into and "become" the pure awareness only, giving up even that last and very high identity as the universal "I am." The consciousness will continue on no doubt, and the all the activities of life, but the identity of myself will now be fixed back at its original home, the pure awareness which was prior to consciousness.
This last step is still incomprehensible to me but I love to think about it again and again. Many can give up the lesser false identifications, casting them off like tattered old clothes and stripping naked down to the singular universal consciousness. But who can give up that very sense of beingness itself? We LOVE to be, and fear terribly not being anymore. It is frightening! Looked at from a lower level the final realization seems like absolute and utter anihilation itself, and who on earth wants to be completely anihilated? Thus, very few rare souls ever realize the final realization! Above all, I WANT TO BE!
But the true sage makes the final realization and the final step and is in fact completely anihilated. "He" ceases to exist, and all that is left of him is what was there at the beginning of the world, as Buddha became the Void itself and entered into the great nirvana. A friend of mine called it "The Great Suicide." Then one realizes the final incredible and terrifying reality: there is nothing. And though really and truly there is absolutely nothing, at the same time that nothingness is inexplicably filled to fullness with an indescribable "something which is not a thing," the pure awareness, the absolute, unaware of itself. That is the one and only "thing-which-is-not- a-thing" which is truly real. All else is false, a fraud made of spacetime, of things which begin and end and come and go, the Great Maha Maya, the dreams of the universal mind.
Thanks..
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Hi,
I have experienced Presence and a complete certainty of Being in a state of thoughtlessness... not a single thought as you said, however I do not know if it is the 'consciousness blank out' you mentioned... because I do not have a distinct feeling that if someone were to come and talk to me at that moment, I would be unaware of it or unable to hear it. However at that moment all I experienced is pure empty Presence and nothing else, no thought, no sound, etc.
I see...Just to verify. The experience should not be vast or spacious. It should be borderless with no 'you' there.
-
Originally posted by longchen:
I see...Just to verify. The experience should not be vast or spacious. It should be borderless with no 'you' there.
There is no sense of vastness or spacious at that time. There is only Self.. not a mental identification but a sense of presence prior to all thoughts, a very palpable and undeniable sense of Presence-Awareness that is prior to, behind, everything. I intuitively understood this to be 'Who I Am' (I was practicing the koan 'Before birth, who am I?' at that point) even without thought-reflection, a non-conceptual certainty and conviction because this actually goes beyond all doubts... it is impersonal and yet it feels more 'Me' than anything else. There is just this certainty of Being.
-
I had sense of vastness or spaciousness many times even before (and subsequently after) that experience, but that was something distinct from all the previous experiences... a conviction grew on what I am, a certainty of 'I am'. I do not remember vastness or spaciousness in that experience.
I do remember however subsequent experiences which clarified further... includes a sense of borderlessness, and this made me understood the 'universal' and 'impersonal' nature of Awareness even more. The personal sense of witness which has a sense of locality dissolved into a universal witness that is simultaneously nowhere and everywhere. It is now understood that Perceiving/Witnessing has no center... it is universal awareness perceiving the sounds, the sights, and everything else.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I had sense of vastness or spaciousness many times even before (and subsequently after) that experience, but that was something distinct from all the previous experiences... a conviction grew on what I am, a certainty of 'I am'. I do not remember vastness or spaciousness in that experience.
I do remember however subsequent experiences which clarified further... includes a sense of borderlessness, and this made me understood the 'universal' and 'impersonal' nature of Awareness even more. The personal sense of witness which has a sense of locality dissolved into a universal witness that is simultaneously nowhere and everywhere. It is now understood that Perceiving/Witnessing has no center... it is universal awareness perceiving the sounds, the sights, and everything else.
I see. Yes, it should be borderless and will overturn our previous belief of finite locality. -
Originally posted by longchen:
I see. Yes, it should be borderless and will overturn our previous belief of finite locality.Yes... I think, when the mind tries to understand Presence... at the same time it localizes it in the form of 'I AM'.
The Source is totally ungraspable... non-local, centerless, infinite, all-pervading, unknowable as an object yet IS, and as such the mind in its attempt to 'know' Presence has made a closest substitute. This self-reflexive consciousness arises naturally right after deep sleep... but later gradually evolved into grosser identifications like 'I am this, I am that'.
When Pure Awareness is experienced, it is non-local, centerless, borderless, but later gets mixed up with the first thought/sense that arose from Pure Awareness which is the sense of 'I Am', because it is the first act of 'self-consciousness', the closest 'thing' to pure awareness that can be cognized. Before that is just 'awareness unaware of itself'.
John Wheeler:
To know any experience, there must be a knowing that "I am". That is just the basic conscious knowing of being present. That is what first appears out of deep sleep. It is not a personal "I" or any other notion. Call it impersonal knowing. Subsequently, the mind begins operating and the separate "I" notion is created in thought.
Pure awareness, or non-conceptual reality, is non-dual. Upon or within this arises self-consciousness, which is the pure sense of "I am", but not yet individualized. Then follows the "I" concept, or the notion of separate individuality. Lastly, there appear notions such as I am this or that (body, mind, personality, etc.).
All phenomena appear in consciousness. That consciousness is NOT personal. It is the primordial or first experience in duality. It is the pure sense of "I am" with no other content, just knowing "I am" without words, or being self-consciously aware. But that is still an experience. You are the space in which even that comes and goes.
-
Like what longchen said, it is quite a long article. Haven't got the time to really go through it. I will go through it during the weekends. Was quite busy these days. :)
-
Originally posted by Thusness:
Like what longchen said, it is quite a long article. Haven't got the time to really go through it. I will go through it during the weekends. Was quite busy these days. :)
I see.. take your time, will look forward to your reply. Thanks :)
-
Hello People! Just saying Hi.
This thread like damn serious.