Act, speak, with full awareness and then you will find a tremendous change in you. The very fact that you are aware changes your acts. Then you cannot commit sin. Not that you have to control yourself, no! Control is a poor substitute for awareness, a very poor substitute; it doesn't help much. If you are aware, you need not control anger; in awareness, anger never arises. They cannot exist together; there is no coexistence for them. In awareness, jealousy never arises. In awareness, many things simply disappear - all the things that are negative.
It is just like a light. When the light is in your house, how can darkness exist there? It simply escapes. When your house is lighted, how can you stumble? How can you knock at the wall? The light is there, you know the door, you simply reach the door, you get out or in. When there is darkness, you grope, you stumble, you fall. Anger is nothing but stumbling; jealousy is nothing but groping in the dark. All that is wrong is wrong, not because of itself but because you are living in darkness.
If Jesus wants to be angry, he can be; he can use it. You cannot use it - you are being used by it. If Jesus feels that it will be good and helpful, he can use anything - he is a master. Jesus can be angry without being angry. Many people worked with Gurdjieff, and he was a terrible man. When he was angry, he would be terribly angry, he would look like a murderer! But that was just a game, just a situation to help somebody. And immediately, not a single moment's gap would be there, he would look again at the same person toward whom he had been angry, and he would be angry and terrible looking.
It is possible. When you are aware, you can use everything. Even poison becomes elixir when you are aware. And when you are asleep, even elixir becomes poison - because the whole thing depends on your being alert or not. Acts don't mean anything. Acts do not matter - you, your awareness, your being conscious, mindful, is what matters. What you do is not the concern.
~ "Awareness", Osho
Questioner: If I understand you rightly, awareness alone and by itself is sufficient to dissolve both the conflict and the source of it. I am perfectly aware, and have been for a long time, that I am “snobbish.” What prevents my getting rid of snobbishness?
Krishnamurti: The questioner has not understood what I mean by awareness. If you have a habit, the habit of snobbishness for instance, it is no good merely to overcome this habit by another, its opposite. It is futile to fight one habit by another habit. What rids the mind of habit is intelligence. Awareness is the process of awakening intelligence, not creating new habits to fight the old ones. So, you must become conscious of your habits of thought, but do not try to develop opposite qualities or habits. If you are fully aware, if you are in that state of choiceless observation, then you will perceive the whole process of creating a habit and also the opposite process of overcoming it. This discernment awakens intelligence, which does away with all habits of thought. We are eager to get rid of those habits which give us pain or which we have found to be worthless, by creating other habits of thought and assertions. This process of substitution is wholly unintelligent. If you will observe you will find that mind is nothing but a mass of habits of thought and memories. By merely overcoming these habits by others, the mind still remains in prison, confused and suffering. It is only when we deeply comprehend the process of self-protective reactions, which become habits of thought, limiting all action, that there is a possibility of awakening intelligence, which alone can dissolve the conflict of opposites.
J. Krishnamurti
Collected Works, Vol. III - 73
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Act, speak, with full awareness and then you will find a tremendous change in you. The very fact that you are aware changes your acts. Then you cannot commit sin. Not that you have to control yourself, no! Control is a poor substitute for awareness, a very poor substitute; it doesn't help much. If you are aware, you need not control anger; in awareness, anger never arises. They cannot exist together; there is no coexistence for them. In awareness, jealousy never arises. In awareness, many things simply disappear - all the things that are negative.
It is just like a light. When the light is in your house, how can darkness exist there? It simply escapes. When your house is lighted, how can you stumble? How can you knock at the wall? The light is there, you know the door, you simply reach the door, you get out or in. When there is darkness, you grope, you stumble, you fall. Anger is nothing but stumbling; jealousy is nothing but groping in the dark. All that is wrong is wrong, not because of itself but because you are living in darkness.
If Jesus wants to be angry, he can be; he can use it. You cannot use it - you are being used by it. If Jesus feels that it will be good and helpful, he can use anything - he is a master. Jesus can be angry without being angry. Many people worked with Gurdjieff, and he was a terrible man. When he was angry, he would be terribly angry, he would look like a murderer! But that was just a game, just a situation to help somebody. And immediately, not a single moment's gap would be there, he would look again at the same person toward whom he had been angry, and he would be angry and terrible looking.
It is possible. When you are aware, you can use everything. Even poison becomes elixir when you are aware. And when you are asleep, even elixir becomes poison - because the whole thing depends on your being alert or not. Acts don't mean anything. Acts do not matter - you, your awareness, your being conscious, mindful, is what matters. What you do is not the concern.
~ "Awareness", Osho
you know what happened to Osho right?
the mercedes guy... hehe
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
you know what happened to Osho right?the mercedes guy... hehe
Nope not Mercedes. The 99 rolls royce guy. LOL
But Osho is still quite enlightened. Apparently he received endorsements from Karmapa, Dalai Lama, and Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche.
I and Thusness discussed about him in http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/336357?amp%3Bpage=2&page=2
Thusness:
I must admit that unlike Master Lu Sheng Yen, Osho has his insights. Despite all his many nonsensical remarks, the depth of his insight of our pristine nature at times appears extraordinary.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Nope not Mercedes. The 99 rolls royce guy. LOL
But Osho is still quite enlightened. Apparently he received endorsements from Karmapa, Dalai Lama, and Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche.
I and Thusness discussed about him in http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/336357?amp%3Bpage=2&page=2
Thusness:
I must admit that unlike Master Lu Sheng Yen, Osho has his insights. Despite all his many nonsensical remarks, the depth of his insight of our pristine nature at times appears extraordinary.
DKR jokes about him... the reference to Karmapa i think is fake.. never heard about Dalai Lama recognising... best write to DL's office to be sure... dun think he is fit to be recognised... he fits the description in the last part of Surangama sutra.
in this degenerated age, many fake masters who can teach very well and profoundly will appear but one must be very careful!
Originally posted by wisdomeye:DKR jokes about him... the reference to Karmapa i know is fake.. never heard about Dalai Lama recognising... best write to DL's office to be sure... I am sure he is not fit to be recognised... he fits the description in the last part of Surangama sutra.
DKR talks at least a few times about Osho, and also said he was a secret admirer of Osho.
The karmapa definitely endorsement sounds suspicious because of new age terms. The HHDL I'm not sure as well, but I will not be surprised if the endorsement is real because HHDL has given endorsement to a number of non-Buddhist mystics including Sri Ramana Maharshi and others.
I don't think he fits Shurangama Sutra - alot of his apparent failings has to do with the community he had. They are into using his money and did many evil deeds (including attempting murder) though Osho never endorsed any of these.
About the Rolls Royce -
They don't
belong to me, those cars—nothing belongs to me. I am the poorest man in
the whole world, living the richest life possible. My people love me;
they want to do something for me. All those cars belong to the commune.
They have made them available to me for one hour each day. I don't know
which car they are bringing, but one thing is certain, that I can be
comfortable only in a Silver Spur. And they love me so much that they
are trying to have three hundred and sixty-five Rolls Royces, one for
every day. And I say, "Why not? A great idea!"…
They have arranged
ninety Rolls Royces, and I know they will be able to manage three
hundred and sixty-five. last210
Originally posted by wisdomeye:DKR jokes about him... the reference to Karmapa i think is fake.. never heard about Dalai Lama recognising... best write to DL's office to be sure... dun think he is fit to be recognised... he fits the description in the last part of Surangama sutra.
in this degenerated age, many fake masters who can teach very well and profoundly will appear but one must be very careful!
I won't say Osho is a 'fake master'. He definitely has profound insights into our true nature, it is very clear in his texts.
We cannot judge someone by what we hear about him, or just by behavior alone. To see whether one is enlightened, one has to judge by the criteria of insights alone.
In fact I don't think Osho is that bad - there are many great Buddhist masters with profound insights who also had personal failings.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:DKR talks at least a few times about Osho, and also said he was a secret admirer of Osho.
The karmapa definitely endorsement sounds suspicious because of new age terms. The HHDL I'm not sure as well, but I will not be surprised if the endorsement is real because HHDL has given endorsement to a number of non-Buddhist mystics including Sri Ramana Maharshi and others.
I don't think he fits Shurangama Sutra - alot of his apparent failings has to do with the community he had. They are into using his money and did many evil deeds (including attempting murder) though Osho never endorsed any of these.
About the Rolls Royce -
They don't belong to me, those cars—nothing belongs to me. I am the poorest man in the whole world, living the richest life possible. My people love me; they want to do something for me. All those cars belong to the commune. They have made them available to me for one hour each day. I don't know which car they are bringing, but one thing is certain, that I can be comfortable only in a Silver Spur. And they love me so much that they are trying to have three hundred and sixty-five Rolls Royces, one for every day. And I say, "Why not? A great idea!"…
They have arranged ninety Rolls Royces, and I know they will be able to manage three hundred and sixty-five. last210
JKR was joking....
Osho fits Surangama, he advocates alot to go into desire... in fact he has some books about it... aiya, anyway, everyone to judge for themselves. i think i've said enuf to provoke thinking and that's enuf. I better get off my high moral horse... heehee
Originally posted by wisdomeye:JKR was joking....
Osho fits Surangama, he advocates alot to go into desire... in fact he has some books about it... aiya, anyway, everyone to judge for themselves. i think i've said enuf to provoke thinking and that's enuf. I better get off my high moral horse... heehee
juz add something, if know anyone with high attainments, juz ask them, they can roughly tell... whether someone is a demon or a saint.
DKR wasn't joking when he said he was a secret admirer, he looked serious. It was a video talk. He definitely sees the value in Osho's teachings.
Osho has acute non-dual insight and this cannot be denied. However not yet Stage 6 in Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
More like 4-5.
AEN, pls remove my references to mara...i think this kind of thing dun talk liao!
If someone is a copycat it will be very obvious. As my teacher said before, it will not be possible to consistently copy without contradiction. One will eventually stumble. Osho had a profound spiritual transformation and wrote about it as well, it is very clearly his personal experience.
How do you define demon? That is very subjective. Great lamas and rinpoches and zen masters and other Buddhist masters have been embroiled in sex scandals, or are alcoholics, etc. I don't think that makes them demons. It just shows that they have personal failings.
hi AEN,
this topic better u discuss with your teachers not in a public forum... from what i see u post before, u seem to have excellent teachers... so please consult them about this topic. I am not qualified to comment on them. Buddha talk about this topic in the Surangama Sutra too, that is a good source to read and reflect.
pls remove my references to mara and all that, thanks... it is not helpful for general readers.
Ok... done.
Merci Beaucoup! :)
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:If someone is a copycat it will be very obvious. As my teacher said before, it will not be possible to consistently copy without contradiction. One will eventually stumble. Osho had a profound spiritual transformation and wrote about it as well, it is very clearly his personal experience.
How do you define demon? That is very subjective. Great lamas and rinpoches and zen masters and other Buddhist masters have been embroiled in sex scandals, or are alcoholics, etc. I don't think that makes them demons. It just shows that they have personal failings.
Regarding 'stumbling'... my teacher mentioned, just ask him a few questions see if he stumbles.
He just needs to ask one question (forgot what was it) and if the person is not enlightened, he will not be able to answer. lol
Basically.. if you are not speaking from experience, but are relying on book knowledge, words will not flow out naturally. You will be searching your mind for answers rather than expressing your experience at the moment.
It happened:
There was one great master, a Buddhist master, Nagarjuna. A thief came to him. The thief had fallen in love with the master because he had never seen such a beautiful person, such infinite grace. The thief asked Nagarjuna, "Is there some possibility of my growth also? But one thing I must make clear to you: I am a thief. And another thing: I cannot leave it, so please don't make it a condition. I will do whatsoever you say, but I cannot stop being a thief. That I have tried many times--it never works, so I have left the whole sport. I have accepted my destiny, that I am going to be a thief and remain a thief, so don't talk about it. From the very beginning let it be clear."
AEN,
still on this topic? hehe... those who really can tell, dun nd to talk to the person at all to tell... can we juz forget this topic... thanks.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:AEN,
still on this topic? hehe... those who really can tell, dun nd to talk to the person at all to tell... can we juz forget this topic... thanks.
Yes but so far I don't think anyone has mentioned Osho as being a demon.
Many times we have very prejudiced views of teachers because they don't fit into our model of how a guru 'should be'. There are great and enlightened gurus who drink, womanize, etc. I won't justify their behaviors, but whether a spiritual teacher is genuine is not as easy as we think.
Anyway I also hope people do not demonize people - like labeling someone as a demon, etc. If you want to point out what you disagree with someone (what aspect of his teaching, etc) - that is fine, but not demonizing.
For me, it is very clear who are simply on a guru business, and who are having genuine insights. I can recognise what Osho said in my own experience, and know that his words are genuine. Sometimes just reading the texts you feel that your experience is being authenticated as you read (though not that I have reached Osho's level of wisdom) and it is still a joy to read even if you already know what he is saying. There is a real power in the words of genuine teachers... to reflect the Presence in you. Those who do not have such wisdom will not be able to put it down so concisely in words. They will be writing from the ego-centric perspective, rather than from a place of Wisdom and Presence. It is easily recognizable. When you yourself are in the 'place' of Presence and Awareness, you will be able to detect whether what is said is from that place, or from the place of ego.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes but so far I don't think anyone has mentioned Osho as being a demon.
Many times we have very prejudiced views of teachers because they don't fit into our model of how a guru 'should be'. There are great and enlightened gurus who drink, womanize, etc. I won't justify their behaviors, but whether a spiritual teacher is genuine is not as easy as we think.
Anyway I also hope people do not demonize people - like labeling someone as a demon, etc. If you want to point out what you disagree with someone (what aspect of his teaching, etc) - that is fine, but not demonizing.
For me, it is very clear who are simply on a guru business, and who are having genuine insights.
yes, that's why i felt i shd take out my comments... i'm not fit to comment.... wat for continue.
Many Illnesses, One Prescription
Pradipam, I know why the question has arisen– --because you have tried not to be angry, you have decided so many times, but still it happens. You have tried not to be greedy, but again and again you fall in the trap. You have tried ALL all kinds of things to change yourself, but nothing seems ever to happen. You remain the same.
And here I am saying that there is a simple key: -- awareness. You cannot believe it. How can awareness, just awareness, help when nothing else has been of any help? Keys are always very small; keys are not very big things. A small key can open a very big lock. And why does awareness function as a key?
The person who is living in a dream, is deep asleep, has a nightmare, is being tortured, is being killed. And of course fighting, fighting back, he is very much afraid, wants somebody to save him, and finds no way to escape. All around him are enemies with naked swords. Death seems to be certain. Trembling, perspiring, just out of the pain of the nightmare, he awakes. Still his breathing is not natural, still he is perspiring, trembling, but he starts laughing. There is no problem... the dream has disappeared. All those enemies and the naked swords were not realities. He need not ask to be saved; he need not arrange any defence. The whole thing was just a shadow world.
Once awakened the whole dream has disappeared. And in the dream he had tried every possible way to protect himself and was finding it impossible. That's how the case is with you, with everybody.
Anger is a shadow. You cannot be victorious by fighting with a shadow. Greed is a shadow... these are not realities. The reality is that which will remain even when awareness has happened. And this is the miracle: those who have known awareness have not known anything of anger or greed. Not that they dropped them– -- they simply don't find them! Once the light is there, darkness is not there.
Buddha is reported to have said when he became enlightened, the first moment of it, he smiled and he said: " ‘This is unbelievable! – so So, I have been enlightened from the very beginning!? And all those chains and all those imprisonments were just dreams?’"
When people would ask him, " ‘What should we do not to be angry’, or ‘what should we do not to be greedy’, or ‘what should we do not to be so much obsessed with sex or food?’" his answer was always the same: B be aware. Bring awareness to your life.
His disciple, Ananda, listening again and again to every kind of person– -- different problems, but the prescription of the physician remains the same– -- became puzzled. He said, " ‘What is the matter with you? They bring different kinds of illness– --somebody brings greed and somebody sex and somebody food and somebody something else, -- but your prescription remains the same’!"
And Buddha said, " ‘Their illnesses are different just as people can dream different dreams.’"
Here you are: if all of you, all two thousand sannyasins, fall asleep you will have two thousand dreams. Remember, you cannot invite anybody to share your dream– --it is very private, --not even your wife or your husband, nobody can share it. So two thousand people will have two thousand dreams. But if you come to me and ask how to get rid of this dream, the medicine will remain the same: Wake up! It is not going to be different; the prescription is going to be the same. You can call it awareness, you can call it witnessing, you can call it remembering, you can call it meditation– -- these are different names for the same medicine.
Act with more awareness.
Btw going back to the topic of Osho... I just found a very well written (though I do not agree on a few points) article on Osho and his failings which I think is a very interesting read. It paints a realistic picture about 'gurus' and how enlightenment does not automatically make one into an infallible perfect human being like Buddha. http://rajneesh.info/
Thusness also commented to me on Osho in 2007 that Osho had non-dual insight, but not necessarily authenticated with the experience of impersonality.. Once non-dual goes with impersonality & this experience is stabilized, then material gain or loss becomes non-important.