Compassionate or passionless after enlightenment?
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1) when one attained enlightenment, how does one know one has attained enlightenment?
2) will he still have compassion or is he passionless after enlightenment?
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The Buddha is certainly enlightened, so....
Does the Buddha has compassion? Is turning the Wheel of Dharma an act of compassion?
Maybe dispassionate is more appropriate, anybody please?!....
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
1) when one attained enlightenment, how does one know one has attained enlightenment?
2) will he still have compassion or is he passionless after enlightenment?
I believe TS started this thread after reading the exchange between wisdomeye and me in another thread, so I've reproduced the exchange below here for everyone's reference. Hope to hear more views from readers here. Actually, there are many readers, but few posters in this forum. It'll be more enriching if more people are willing to share their views.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Originally posted by wisdomeye:All the masters that i've known has said,
spiritual practice is to make oneself go beyond the self-centredness and build up the strength to help others.
becoming Buddha is always for the sake of benefitting others.
Rainbow body also for the sake of benefitting others.
My teachers, the most outstanding quality about them, is not their high realisations or miracles. It is their love. I have never felt more loved by anyone ever.. so unconditionally and it is unbelievable. If u ever felt such kind of love, u will never ever forget it. And i can't forget it either. This is my initiation to what bodhichitta means.
These teachers, they are always very human, and they do not have to do anything special or say anything special, but everyone around them is transformed. Even animals change. This is due to the power of their motivation or bodhichitta.
Buddha has said, if one had great compassion, it would encapsulate all of his teachings.
wow, well said! though I don't know who your teachers are, but if you can feel such love from them, they must be truly worthy teachers. though the postings and articles in this forum seldom talk about love for people, it's really an extremely important aspect that needs to be learnt and felt, if spiritual growth is to occur. Although I'm not here to intentionally irritate any Buddhists, and I keep getting reminded that Buddhism is not about learning life/karmic lessons, and more about about losing attachments and achieving emptiness and awareness, wisdomeye's (a Buddhist) words above express much of what I've been trying to say.
How many of you truly feel that the day when you lose all attachments to this world, and no longer have 'normal human feelings' like love or feelings for people or situations around you, is the day you've finally achieved enlightenment? I know this question may not be very well phrased, but it's hard to express everything in written words.
I'm just giving my observation as an 'outsider' in this forum: when you have true compassion and love for others (people, animals, environment, etc), you don't need to say anything and others will just naturally feel it from you, and naturally want to learn from you and be like you, so that they can in turn love and help others. Though I can explain this phenomenon in terms of how positive energy works in the Universe, and its positive effects on people, but it's not appropriate for me to share it here. Anyhow, this is the case with wisdomeye's teachers' positive effect on their students. This is the true mastery of spirituality, regardless of what religion or faith (including free thinkers) someone has.
Hope more forumers could share your views on this.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
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Just a sharing...
Don't try to conceptualise compassion. It is a natural state.
The bliss of 'rest' is actually the same as unconditional love.There are many ways to describe experiences.
Along the way, one will realise that all is 'connected' at the Dharmakaya. This is not an accurate description, but i can't think of a better way to describe. All are actually one with differing conditions only. When 'consciousness' that we know it stops, the 'connectivity' will be profoundly experienced. ... the individual experience(you) and the whole are one. This understanding will have an impact on how one percieve others.
IMO, the spiritual path will get one much more intimately acquainted with suffering. One will have to understand suffering in order to get out of it. So, one will naturally understand what others are going thru.
IMO, compassion also has to be a skillful act. You don't want to have compassion in a way that you get sucked into the samsaric mind stories of others. In this way, one is not helping but getting oneself entangled. This is one area that i keep failing :)
If we want to help, we must help in a skillful way.
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Manifestation of Compassion without words:_
Guan Zhi Zai
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Many Masters have said: "Urge on the horse of awareness with the
whip of presence!" And, in fact, if awareness is not quickened by
presence it cannot function.
Let's examine an example of awareness: suppose that in front of a
person in a normal condition there is a cup full of poison, and that person
is aware of what it is. Adult and balanced persons, knowing the poison
for what it is and aware of the consequences of taking it, do not need
much clarification about it. But they have to warn those who don't know
about the poison being there, by saying something like: "In this cup there
is some poison, and it's deadly if swallowed!" Thus, by creating
awareness in others, the danger can be avoided. This is what we mean
by awareness. []
Now we can continue the metaphor of the poison to show what we
mean by presence. If the person who has a cup of poison in front of
them, even though they are aware and know very well what the
consequences of taking the poison would be, does not have a
continuous presence of attention to the fact that the cup contains poison,
it may happen that they become distracted and swallow some of it. So if
awareness is not continually accompanied by presence it is difficult for
there to be the right results. This is what we mean by presence. []
In truth, if one does not have awareness inseparably linked to presence,
there absolutely cannot arise a really genuine compassion. As long as
one does not have the real experience of being moved by compassion
for others, it is useless to pretend that one is so very full of compassion.
There is a Tibetan proverb about this, which says: "Even if you've got
eyes to see other people, you need a mirror to see yourself!" As this
proverb implies, if one really wants a genuine compassion for others to
arise in oneself, it is necessary to observe one's own defects, be aware
of them, and mentally put yourself in other people's places to really
discover what those persons' actual conditions might be. The only way to
succeed in this is to have the presence of awareness. Otherwise, even if
one pretends to have great compassion, a situation will sooner or later
arise which shows that compassion has never really been born in us at
all.
Until a pure compassion does arise, there is no way to overcome one's
limits and barriers.
--Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche -
Originally posted by Weychin:
The Buddha is certainly enlightened, so....
Does the Buddha has compassion? Is turning the Wheel of Dharma an act of compassion?
Maybe dispassionate is more appropriate, anybody please?!....
I was unclear on what I am asking. Buddha's compassion is without parallel. I am asking that of arhats or arahants.
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Nibbana as Living Experience / The Buddha and The ArahantTwo Studies from the Pali CanonbyLily de Silva
Nibbana as Living Experience
Nibbana [nibbaana] is the culmination of the Buddhist quest for perfection and happiness. In order to understand the meaning of this term it is useful to refer to the verse attributed to Kisa Gotami when she saw Prince Siddhattha returning to the palace from the park on the eve of his great renunciation. She declared:
Nibbutaa nuuna saa maataa, nibbuto nuuna so pitaa,
Nibbutaa nuuna saa naarii, yassaayam iidiso patii.1"Happy/contented/peaceful indeed is the mother (who has such a son), happy indeed is the father (who has such a son), happy indeed is the woman who has such a one as her husband."
Nibbuta (from nir + v.r) is often treated as the past participle of the verb nibbaayati, andnibbaana is the nominal form of that verb. It means happiness, contentment, and peace.Nibbaayati also means to extinguish, to blow out as in the blowing out of a lamp.2 Nibbana is so called because it is the blowing out of the fires of greed, hatred, and delusion (raagaggi, dosaggi, mohaggi) .3 When these fires are blown out peace is attained, and one becomes completely cooled — siitibhuuta .4 It is sometimes conjectured that Nibbana is called cool because the Buddha preached in a warm country, where the cool was appreciated as comfortable. Had he taught in a cold climate, he might have described Nibbana in terms of warmth. But it is certain that the term "cool" was chosen to convey a literal psychological reality.5 Anger makes us hot and restless. We use expressions such as "boiling with anger," and they clearly express the intensity of the aggressive emotion. When such negative emotions are completely eradicated, never to arise again, the temperament has to be described as cool.
Nibbana is a state to be attained here and now in this very life6 and not a state to be attained only after death. In terms of living experience Nibbana can be characterized by four special attributes: happiness, moral perfection, realization, and freedom. We shall take these up for discussion one by one.
Happiness
Nibbana is described as the highest happiness, the supreme state of bliss.7 Those who have attained Nibbana live in utter bliss, free from hatred and mental illness amongst those who are hateful and mentally ill.8 Sukha in Paali denotes both happiness and pleasure. In English happiness denotes more a sense of mental ease while pleasure denotes physical well being. The Paali word sukha extends to both these aspects and it is certain (as will be shown below) that mental and physical bliss is experienced by one who has attained Nibbana.
The experience of non-sensuous physical bliss for limited periods is possible even before the attainment of Nibbana through the practice of jhaana or meditative absorption. The Saamaññaphala Sutta describes these physical experiences with the help of eloquent similes.9 When bath powder is kneaded with water into a neat wet ball, the moisture touches every part of the ball but does not ooze out; similarly, the body of the adept in the first jhaana is drenched and suffused with joy and pleasure born of detachment from sense pleasures (vivekaja.m piitisukha.m). The experience in the second jhaana is elucidated with a different simile. A deep pool filled to the brim with clear cool water is fed by underground springs, yet the waters do not overflow and no part of the pool remains untouched by the cool waters. Similarly joy and pleasure born of concentration (samaadhija.m piitisukha.m) pervade the body of the meditator in the second jhaana. The simile for the third jhaana is a lotus born in water, grown in water, fully submerged in water, and drawing nourishment from water, with no part of the lotus remaining untouched by the cool water. Thus happiness/pleasure suffuses, drenches, and permeates the entire body of the adept in the third jhaana. These are the experiences of non-sensuous pleasure before the attainment of Nibbana. On the attainment of Nibbana more refined non-sensuous pleasure is permanently established. The Ca"nkii Sutta specifically states that when a monk realizes the ultimate truth, he experiences that truth "with the body."10
Regarding the experience of the arahant, the Suttanipaata states that by the destruction of all feelings/sensations a monk lives desireless and at peace.11 Once Saariputta was asked what happiness there can be when there is no feeling/sensation.12 He explained that the absence of feeling/sensation itself is happiness.13 It is relevant to note here that the Buddha says that he does not speak of happiness only with reference to pleasant feelings/sensations. Wherever there is happiness or pleasure, that he recognizes as happiness or pleasure.14
Here we are reminded of the statement that all mental states converge on feelings.15 What is meant by this statement seems to be that all mental states are translated into sensations in the body. It is possible to understand the import of this statement if we pay attention to a gross emotion, such as anger. When we are angry we experience a variety of bodily sensations: feeling hot, being restless, breaking out in a sweat, trepidation, etc. When we are sad, tears come into our eyes. These are brought about by changes in body chemistry through the discharge of various glandular secretions. If intense emotions bring about such gross sensations, we might conjecture that all thoughts cause subtle sensations in the body resulting from changes in body chemistry. We are hardly aware of these sensations which, however, become noticeable with the development of vedanaanupassanaa, contemplation of sensations. Thoughts are endless and continuous; therefore, if this interpretation that thoughts are translated into sensations is correct, sensations too should be endless and continuous. The Vedanaasa.myutta states that just as diverse winds constantly blow in different directions, numerous sensations pass through the body.16
An arahant has full control over his thoughts;17 therefore he must have full control over his feelings/sensations too. What is meant by the statement that "a monk lives desireless and at peace by the destruction of all feelings/sensations" seems to be that he has destroyed all psychogenic feelings/sensations. This leads us to another statement: that all feelings/sensations partake of the nature of suffering.18 In order to understand the significance of this statement we must pay attention to our postures. If we have to remain seated for some time, say for an hour, we are not even aware of how many times we shift and adjust our limbs to more comfortable positions. This happens almost mechanically, as all the time we unconsciously seek to avoid discomfort. This is because monotony of sensations, even pleasant sensations, brings about discomfort and a change brings about a temporary sensation of comfort. If there were no sensations produced from within perhaps we would not need to change positions so often and we would have a running sense of ease even if we continue to remain in the same position for a long time.
Here it might be asked whether an arahant has lost the ability to feel pain, which is also an essential part of the touch sensation. It has to be pointed out that this is not so, for in that case an arahant would not even know if a part of his body is seriously injured or burnt. There is plenty of evidence to show that an arahant does feel sensations caused by physical changes. For instance, the Buddha felt acute pain when he was wounded by a stone splinter19 and when he suffered from indigestion.20 But he was able to withstand the painful sensations with mindfulness and clear comprehension without being fatigued by them. Again, an experience of Saariputta throws light on the subject.21 His experience refers to events which modern psychology designates as "non-ordinary reality of altered states of consciousness." A yakkha, a malevolent spirit, once gave Saariputta a blow on the head. The blow, it is said, was so powerful that it was capable of splitting a mountain peak or making a seven and a half cubit high elephant go down on its knees. Moggallaana, who saw the incident with his divine eye, inquired from Saariputta how he was feeling. He replied that he was all right, but there was slight pain in the head. This shows us that a blow which could have deprived an ordinary person of life had only minimal impact on an arahant.
Perhaps because the psychological factors which predispose a person to the experience of sensations are perfectly well under control in an arahant, he experiences only those sensations that are felt purely physically by an animate organism. It seems as if the body is under some sort of mentally regulated anesthesia which allows a narrow margin of sensation to protect the body from external danger. There are two kinds of pain, physical and mental,22 and arahants are said to experience only physical pain,23 without the anxious mental agony when experiencing physical pain.
It is also possible to look at this issue from another angle. Though the texts state thatvedanaa is destroyed in the arahant, they never say that the sense faculties are destroyed. When describing the super-conscious state of sa~n~naa-vedayitanirodha, the sense faculties are said to be refined — vippasannaani indriyaani.24 So in the case of the arahant, too, the sense faculties must certainly be refined and not rendered deficient in any way. In that case it is possible to surmise that, though vedanaa is extinct, body-sensitivity continues to be active and is thoroughly refined.
The Vedanaasa.myutta differentiates between three types of joy and pleasure:25
- Saamisaa piiti saamisa.m sukha.m : joy and pleasure stimulated by sense objects, e.g. worldly sense pleasures.
- Niraamisaa piiti niraamisa.m sukha.m : Joy and pleasure free from stimulation by sense objects, e.g. jhaanic experiences.
- Niraamisataraa piiti niraamisatara.m sukha.m : more refined joy and pleasure free from stimulation by sense objects, e.g. Nibbana.
An arahant experiences both physical and mental bliss (so kaayasukham pi cetosukham pi pa.tisa.mvedeti) as all tensions (darathaa), torments (santaapaa), and fevers (pari.laahaa) have been completely eliminated for good.26
Bhaddiya was a monk who often exclaimed "What happiness, what happiness!" (aho sukha.m aho sukha.m). This expression of joy was misunderstood by his less developed fellow monks and they reported the matter to the Buddha, suspecting that Bhaddiya was often reminiscing about his lay comforts. On being questioned by the Buddha Bhaddiya explained that he was a prince in his lay life and that he had armed guards stationed in all strategic points within and without his palace, yet still he suffered from insomnia and insecurity, fearing that rivals might usurp his position and even deprive him of his life. But now, though living all alone in the open air, he is completely free from fear and anxiety. Therefore, to express his happiness, he frequently exclaimed: "What happiness, what happiness!"27
So great was the experience of joy on the attainment of release from all mental intoxicants (aasavakkhaya) that sometimes arahants have stayed in that same position continuously without moving for seven days enjoying the bliss of emancipation.28 It is said that the whole body was permeated with this joy and bliss.
Thus there are various passages in the Paali Canon which record the experience of bliss in the attainment of Nibbana. But it appears that this bliss is not confined to or dependent on the five aggregates which constitute the individual. For the Dvayataanupassanaa Sutta maintains that suffering (dukkha) ceases to arise with the cessation of the five aggregates.29 Further, it is said in the Alagadduupama Sutta that the perfected being (tathaagata) cannot be identified with any of the five personality factors even while he is still alive.30
Moral Perfection
Nibbana is a state of moral perfection. For one who has attained Nibbana, all unwholesome motivational roots such as greed, hatred, and delusion have been fully eradicated with no possibility of their ever becoming active again. Therefore Nibbana is called the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion (raagakkhaya, dosakkhaya, mohakkhaya). All inflowing moral depravities are destroyed, hence the epithet aasavakkhaya for Nibbana. Craving has been uprooted for good, therefore ta.nhakkhaya is another synonym. All types of conceit, the superiority and the inferiority complex plus the complex of equality (seyyamaana, hiinamaana, and sadisamaana), are eliminated. This necessarily has to be so as an arahant has no egoistic delusions such as I and mine. Just as much as an arahant has transcended egoism, he has transcended sexuality too. When Somaa, a female arahant, was rebuked by Maara the Evil One, saying that womankind with very little intelligence cannot attain that state which is to be attained with great effort by seers and sages, Somaa replied that womanhood is no impediment for the realization of truth to one who is endowed with intelligence and concentration.31 Further, she adds that Maara must address these words to one who thinks "I am a man" or "I am a woman" and not to one like herself. This reply seems to imply that one loses even sexual identity on the attainment of arahantship.
There is evidence that an arahant has undergone such transformation in body chemistry that he has gone beyond the dichotomy of masculinity and femininity. All normal physiological sexual functions seem to be atrophied in an arahant as it is said that seminal emission is impossible for an arahant even in sleep.32 We may also note the tradition maintaining that arahants never dream,33 maybe because they have attained such perfect mental health that there is no necessity to release tension through dreams.
The sublime modes of conduct (brahmavihaara) such as loving-kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity (mettaa, karu.naa, muditaa, upekkhaa) are fully developed without any limitations. An arahant is such a perfect being that it is simply impossible for him to commit an immoral act. He is incapable of wilfully destroying the life of a living creature. It is impossible for him to stoop so low as to steal something, to indulge in sex, to utter a deliberate lie, or to enjoy accumulated goods as in the household life.34 One may wonder why household life is an impossibility for an arahant. The reason may be that the household is recognized as a fortress of greed where we deposit all our belongings; it is, in other words, the external repository of our ego. An arahant, who has fully transcended the ego, is incapable of partaking of such an institution.
Realization
Several expressions are used in the Paali Canon to denote the cognitive aspect of the experience of Nibbana. "The mass of darkness (of ignorance) has been torn asunder" (tamokkhandha.m padaalita.m) 35 is a frequent expression. In his First Sermon the Buddha describes the realization of the Four Noble Truths as the arising of the eye, wisdom, insight, knowledge, and light.36 "The three knowledges have been attained" (tisso vijjaa anuppattaa) is another expression.37 The triple knowledge consists of retrocognition (pubbenivaasaanussati~naa.na), clairvoyance (dibbacakkhu), and the knowledge of the destruction of defilements (aasavakkhaya~naa.na). With the first two knowledges one obtains personal verification of the doctrines of rebirth and kamma respectively. With the destruction of intoxicants one realizes the causal origination of all phenomena and egolessness.38 Sometimes three other cognitive faculties (abhi~n~naa) are mentioned as extra qualifications of arahants, namely, miraculous powers (iddhividha), the divine ear (dibbasota), and telepathy (cetopariya~naa.na).39 With the attainment of Nibbana one also realizes that birth is destroyed, the higher life has been successfully lived, one's duty has been done, and there is no more of this (mundane) existence.40
The Uddesavibha"nga Sutta explains the nature of consciousness and the general cognitive attitude of an arahant:41
- The consciousness of an arahant is not scattered and diffused in the external world (bahiddhaa vi~n~naa.na.m avikkhitta.m avisa.ta.m) ; this becomes possible because he does not indulge in the enjoyment of sense objects.
- His consciousness is not established within (ajjhatta.m asa.n.thi.ta.m): this is possible because he does not become attached to the enjoyment of the jhaanas.
- He remains unagitated without grasping (anupaadaaya na paritassati): this means that he does not identify himself with any of the five aggregates or personality factors.
The Mahaasa.laayatanika Sutta explains more fully the cognitive experience of an arahant from the angle of sense experience.42 The arahant realistically understands the nature of sense faculties, sense objects, sense consciousness, sense contact established by the convergence of these three factors, and the resulting sensations of pleasure, pain, and hedonic neutrality. He does not get attached to any of these factors. When he lives without deriving pleasure and without getting attached to perceived sense objects and without being deluded by the process of sense perception, recognizing the evil consequences of sense perception, the five aggregates of grasping or the personality factors do not get built up. They fall apart, as craving which leads to rebirth is totally eliminated. All physical and mental tensions (darathaa), torments (santaapaa), and fevers (pari.laahaa) are destroyed. The arahant experiences perfect physical and mental bliss.
We are not quite sure exactly what is meant by the realistic understanding of the nature of sense faculties, but we might suppose that an arahant intuitively understands, through the framework of his own personality, how the sense stimuli pass through sense receptors and nerve fibers and are interpreted at brain centers. Modern science explains to a certain extent the physiological processes involved in the activity of sense perception, but this understanding is confined at best to the intellectual level and is dependent on technological devices in medical laboratories. Such knowledge cannot bring about the attitudinal and emotional changes which are necessary for liberation. An arahant's understanding springs from a deeper experiential level with direct vision into the whole perceptual process as explained, for instance, in the Madhupi.n.dika Sutta.43
What is meant by the realistic understanding of sense objects? Most likely it is the realization of the impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-substantial nature of all that is around us. This too is a direct profound experience of acute sensitivity, a direct personal vision into the dynamism of atomic and sub-atomic particles that go to form the material world around us as well as our bodies.
The Dhammapada records that when a monk sees in his contemplations the dynamic working of the physical and mental phenomena composing his own personality, great joy arises in him, and that can only be described as superhuman joy.44 One has direct insight into the inner workings of one's body, the arising and passing away of body cells, sensations, perceptions, activities, and consciousness. Great is the joy and delight of this realization, and it is the realization of deathlessness.45 This is what is called the "bliss of enlightenment" (sambodhisukha).
Freedom
All bonds which tie us down to suffering are torn asunder; thus Nibbana is calledsa.myojanakkhaya .46 As the arahant has complete mastery over his thoughts (cetovasippatta),47 no recurring unhealthy thoughts obsess him. Negative emotions restrict an individual's psychological freedom; therefore greed, hatred, and ignorance are described as pamaa.nakara.na, i.e. they circumscribe an individual's freedom.48 Greed, hatred, and ignorance are roots of unwholesome mental states which fetter the individual within sa.msaara.
There is an interesting simile which illustrates the nature of a fetter.49 If there is a white bull and a black bull tied together by a rope, the question is asked, whether the white bull is a fetter to the black bull or the black bull is a fetter to the white bull. In fact neither is a fetter to the other; the fetter is the rope by which they are tied together. Similarly the desire we have for external objects is the fetter that binds us. The arahant has cut this off and attained freedom.
Unhealthy negative emotions are always self-oriented and self-centered. The Dhammapada says that the fool laments, "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,"and generates anger.50 As he is firmly tied to the idea of the self or the ego, and he cannot wean himself away from the experience which inflicted a wound on his ego, he is like a dog tied to a post. This situation is quite in contrast to an experience the Buddha had once.51 A brahman came and abused him in very harsh language. The Buddha remained silent. When at last the brahman stopped, the Buddha asked: "If you were to visit a friend and you took a gift to him, but the friend declined to accept the gift, what would you do?" The brahman replied that he would take it back. The Buddha said: "You brought me a gift of much abuse, I do not accept; you can take it back." The Buddha also states that even if one is cut into pieces with a double-handled saw, one should train oneself not to generate anger towards the tormentor.52 Moggallaana was an arahant who was mercilessly beaten by robbers but he was able to maintain his composure without a trace of anger. Such is the freedom one gains from negative emotions on the attainment of Nibbana.
An arahant has fully developed the brahmavihaaras, the sublime modes of conduct — universal love, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity. These positive qualities are generated by transcending the self and are described as all-embracing and immeasurable (appamaa.na).53 Thus they do not limit the scope of psychological freedom as do the mental states rooted in greed, hatred, and ignorance (pamaa.nakara.na). The freedom won by an arahant is called cetovimutti and pa~n~naavimutti, release of mind and release through wisdom. Knowledge also arises in the meditator that freedom has been gained (vimuttasmi.m vimuttam iti ~naa.na.m hoti). This is called the "bliss of emancipation" (vimuttisukha), the highest bliss that any human being could enjoy.
Creativity
Creativity is another aspect under which the achievement of an arahant can be fruitfully discussed. The virtues of the arahant can be succinctly summarized as karu.naa andpa~n~naa, compassion and wisdom. These are the two qualities through which the creativity of the arahant finds expression. When arahants look at humanity they are moved by great compassion as they fully realize the gravity of the precarious condition of the worldlings. Therefore, they willingly plunge into a life of selfless activity, preaching to the people, trying to show them the path leading out of misery to eternal peace. It is especially noteworthy that
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The above article explains signs of nibbana and characteristics of both Buddha and arahant. Hope it can of help you to find the anwser.
Personally, I would think an arahant will have no strong mental agitations or emotional reactions towards stressor an ordinary person will get strongly emotional about. Being vigilant and added that is no attachment to latch on. An arahant is certainly not an unhappy person an is more acutely aware than an ordinary person.
How do we measure compassion? Inward or outward manifestation of it? What does selflessness means? By being an arahant, a model for us to emulate, attainable each for himself, constitute compassion?
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I realise that the posting is hard to read, here's the link:-
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/desilva/wheel407.html
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sorry after thinking over, decided not to comment afterall... :)
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ditto
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It'll be great and certainly more enriching if many more Buddhist forum readers of various walks of life were to participate actively in the forum, to share their personal life experiences with fellow forumers here. Learning from real life experiences of more people who have gone through different paths will be more helpful for people, as different perspectives and scenarios of experiences reveal different angles which may have been missed by others. :)
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
Although I'm not here to intentionally irritate any Buddhists, and I keep getting reminded that Buddhism is not about learning life/karmic lessons, and more about about losing attachments and achieving emptiness and awareness,Hi People,
I feel a need to clarify that emptiness (in Buddhism) is not the same as 'nothingness' or 'lack of meaning in life', lest it gets misunderstood. Many people, even mystics and spiritual walkers from other paths, have this misunderstanding and therefore label Buddhism as pessimistic. This is far from the truth.
Emptiness is a realisation that needs to be experienced to be understood. It roughly encompasses an understanding that there is no solidity, no space, no time, no locality, etc. Looking at the way the world seems to be, it appear that there are distances, space and time and solidity. But this is not what the truth is like. Everything is actually occuring 'simultaneously' (not accurate, but no better word for this) in a 'timeless' manner... but the conditions of experiences (sensory and consciousness data) normally will not allow us to penetrate through to experience emptiness.
Only insights can penetrate through the veil.
As for 'karmic lessons', karma is about desires/attachment operating in an unconscious manner. Because they are operating in an unconscious manner, we are not aware of their operations and therefore they continue to 'run the show'. So, karmic lessons and losing attachment are not different or opposing activities. Mindfulness practice helps in uncovering these unconscious desires/assumptions/imprints etc.
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Want to add something about emptiness,
As i have stated somewhere else about the quote by Lama Tsongkhapa... if you have an accurate understanding about emptiness, it does not negate interdependent arisings at all... ie., karma still there. It is said that those who realise emptiness observe karma workings even more minutely and precisely.
About karmic lessons, i think in the process of resolving any karmic lessons, one also creates further karmic lessons to be learnt. The reason is that as long as we are not beyond the accepting and rejecting or discrimination, one continues to plant more and more seeds for further karmic lessons and it is never ending until one can completely stop planting any karmic seed, ie, by realising emptiness.
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Originally posted by longchen:
Hi People,
I feel a need to clarify that emptiness (in Buddhism) is not the same as 'nothingness' or 'lack of meaning in life', lest it gets misunderstood. Many people, even mystics and spiritual walkers from other paths, have this misunderstanding and therefore label Buddhism as pessimistic. This is far from the truth.
Emptiness is a realisation that needs to be experienced to be understood. It roughly encompasses an understanding that there is no solidity, no space, no time, no locality, etc. Looking at the way the world seems to be, it appear that there are distances, space and time and solidity. But this is not what the truth is like. Everything is actually occuring 'simultaneously' (not accurate, but no better word for this) in a 'timeless' manner... but the conditions of experiences (sensory and consciousness data) normally will not allow us to penetrate through to experience emptiness.
Only insights can penetrate through the veil.
As for 'karmic lessons', karma is about desires/attachment operating in an unconscious manner. Because they are operating in an unconscious manner, we are not aware of their operations and therefore they continue to 'run the show'. So, karmic lessons and losing attachment are not different or opposing activities. Mindfulness practice helps in uncovering these unconscious desires/assumptions/imprints etc.
Very true...
I recommend those who are new to the Emptiness teachings to read this very well written article:
Non-Dual Emptiness Teachings by Dr. Greg Goode
An excerpt from Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
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At this juncture, it is necessary to have clarity on what Emptiness is not to prevent misunderstandings:• Emptiness is not a substance
• Emptiness is not a substratum or background
• Emptiness is not light
• Emptiness is not consciousness or awareness
• Emptiness is not the Absolute
• Emptiness does not exist on its own
• Objects do not consist of emptiness
• Objects do not arise from emptiness
• Emptiness of the "I" does not negate the "I"
• Emptiness is not the feeling that results when no objects are appearing to the mind
• Meditating on emptiness does not consist of quieting the mind
Source: Non-Dual Emptiness TeachingAnd I would like to add,
Emptiness is not a path of practice
Emptiness is not a form of fruition
Emptiness is the ground of all experiences. There is nothing to attain or practice. What we have to realize is this ground, this ‘ungraspability’, ‘unlocatability ’ and ‘interconnectedness’ nature of all vivid arising. Emptiness will reveal that not only is there no ‘who’ in pristine awareness, there is no ‘where’ and ‘when’. Be it ‘I’, ‘Here’ or ’Now’, all are simply impressions that dependently originate in accordance to the principle of conditionality.When there is this, that is.
With the arising of this, that arises.
When this is not, neither is that.
With the cessation of this, that ceases.The profundity of this four-liner principle of conditionality is not in words. For a more theoretical exposition, see Non-Dual Emptiness Teachings by Dr. Greg Goode; for a more experiential narration, see the subsection "On Emptiness" and "On Maha" of the post "On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection".
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Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Want to add something about emptiness,
As i have stated somewhere else about the quote by Lama Tsongkhapa... if you have an accurate understanding about emptiness, it does not negate interdependent arisings at all... ie., karma still there. It is said that those who realise emptiness observe karma workings even more minutely and precisely.
About karmic lessons, i think in the process of resolving any karmic lessons, one also creates further karmic lessons to be learnt. The reason is that as long as we are not beyond the accepting and rejecting or discrimination, one continues to plant more and more seeds for further karmic lessons and it is never ending until one can completely stop planting any karmic seed, ie, by realising emptiness.
This seems like a never ending post.. he he..
One thing will like to add is that the 'sense of self/I' is itself a chief karmic pattern. It make us see things through a referencing center. 'I' is the grasping/desire that creates a center where experiences are referenced to.
When the 'I' dissapears through recognition, experiences has no center. This does not mean that all is now a blank. One still can operate as per normal, but there is no 'center'. As 'I' is the grasping and the splitter of subject/object division, tension goes away together with it.