monstrance and blessed scrament stolen
-
If there is no power or Presence in the Eucharist.. if it is a mere symbol.. why do people abuse it?
-
Originally posted by Pennycake:
If there is no power or Presence in the Eucharist.. if it is a mere symbol.. why do people abuse it?
Because that's the Body of Christ, not just a symbol. This is what we Catholic believe. And unfortunately, the occultist believe that too and hence they reckon that they can please Mr S A Tan by abusing the Eucharist.
-
Originally posted by sand king:
I read that during a black mass (aka satan worshipper's parody of our catholic mass), a host (which was stolen) is placed into a woman's vagina (they use the vagina as a parody of our tabernacle) and their "priest" will start having sex with that woman..
Now that is what I call being a retard.
And they say Christians are fools. lol. -
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
Our Church is Christ and our fellow brothers and sisters.
Exactly. Well I go to mass almost everyweek.
I don't worship the Catholic church or any person in it and I am aware that they have had their failings in matters of faith and moral judgment and conduct in the past and will likely to be able to fail or have the same kind of failings aswell in the future.
So I admit that my Catholic church is not without blemish and I tend to question some of its doctrines but that doesn't mean I do not trust Christ wholly. Remember that the Catholic church claims itself as the sole church Jesus intended to build. That claim however remains a mere men's claim as the bible or any scripture never specifically write or prophesy about the catholic church to be the sole hierarchy that Christ intended. The claim that peter is the first pope of the Catholic church also remains a mere men's claim as Peter never specifically said anything about Holy Roman Catholic church and the Catholic church hadn't even existed then when he died on the reversed cross. It remains a mere claim by men.
I do however firmly believe that the Catholic church though not without its past sins, is a church that has found grace with God and Christ. And that's why I'm still a member of its congregation. Once I do not believe this any longer I would be more than happy to turn away from the Catholic church. I put my loyalty and faith in Christ alone not in any hierarchy even one which claims to have been given from God. As it is a mere claim by men.
Besides I've read astonishing testimonies from non Catholic Christians all over the world which proves that above all God is not the sole propriety of any single organization. Christ is ours as He is yours. And that Christ in this world reigns above all in the heart of men who believe in Him less than in a title of an office.
-
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
I think we are not talking about the same thing. Not everything that is in the Bible happened exactly as it is and that is an accepted fact....bearing in mind these are events that are pass down orally....and some events are probaly never happened.
However, the messages and teachings that the stories is telling us is the truth. I agree that some people have misinterpreted the Bible especially if we try to read it on our own based on our own understanding. But I believe that the Church teaches us the absolute truth based on the Bible. I believed that only the Church has the correct intepretation of the Bible.
I just re-read what you wrote, and I guess people read the part in red, and were so eager to retort that they missed out the part in blue =p
Someting I read that links to this
it is useful to commence with a maxim of G.K. Chesterton: "not facts first, truth first." Tolkien and Chesterton were both intent on differentiating between facts, which are purely physical, and truth, which is metaphysical.
...
There is no need for Christians to worry about the role of "story" as a conveyer of truth. After all, Christ was the greatest storyteller of all. His parables might not be factual but they are always truthful.
Take, for instance, the parable of the prodigal son. Probably, Christ was not referring to one particular son, nor one particular forgiving father, nor one particular envious brother. The power of the story does not reside in its being factual but in its being truthful.
It doesn´t matter that the prodigal son might never have existed as an actual person; he exists in each of us. We are all, at one time or another, a prodigal son, a forgiving father or an envious brother. It is "applicable" to all of us. It is the story´s truth, not its facts, that matter.
-http://www.catholicqanda.com/LOTR2.html "The Lord of the Rings - A Catholic Epic"
btw, anyone going for St. Ignatius' Youth Mass tmr (Sat 21 Feb)?
7.45-8.00 p.m. Praise & Worship
8.00-9.00 p.m. Mass
9.00-9.30 p.m. Food, Fun & Fellowship!
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=59725396762
how to get there: http://ablazesingapore.blogspot.com/2006/09/way-to-st-ignatius-and-pick-up-point.html
-
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
... I don't worship the Catholic church or any person in it and I am aware that they have had their failings in matters of faith and moral judgment and conduct in the past and will likely to be able to fail or have the same kind of failings aswell in the future.
So I admit that my Catholic church is not without blemish and I tend to question some of its doctrines but that doesn't mean I do not trust Christ wholly. Remember that the Catholic church claims itself as the sole church Jesus intended to build. That claim however remains a mere men's claim as the bible or any scripture never specifically write or prophesy about the catholic church to be the sole hierarchy that Christ intended. The claim that peter is the first pope of the Catholic church also remains a mere men's claim as Peter never specifically said anything about Holy Roman Catholic church and the Catholic church hadn't even existed then when he died on the reversed cross. It remains a mere claim by men. ...
... I put my loyalty and faith in Christ alone not in any hierarchy even one which claims to have been given from God. As it is a mere claim by men....
Agree with you that we only worship God; not idols, not individual persons, not the Catholic Church.
However, the Catholic Church was indeed "the sole church Jesus intended to build". It was not "mere man's claim" that this was so. Consider the following scripture verses:
We read in John's gospel that Jesus prayed to God the Father that his followers (Christians) "may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you" (John 17:21). St Paul also describes the Church (not Churches or the bible) as the "pillar and foundation of truth" (1Tim3:15). When there are disputes on matters of faith and morals, Jesus himself taught, "If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Mat 18:17). In other words, the Church is the final arbitrator on faith and morals which Jesus gave the authority to bind and to loose on earth.
From these verses (there are many more), we see that it was the intention of Jesus for there to be a single universal church, not in terms of physical location but in terms of unity of leadership and doctrine (how else would we be able to carry out Jesus' instructions to resolve disputes through the church, right ? Or for the church to be the pillar of truth ?). It was not Jesus' intention for there to be many churches each having its own beliefs and doctrines.
We see that a church was already in existence during the time of the apostles, headed by Peter. If we then trace the development of this fledging church, we see how the leadership was passed from Peter to successors and the church's explosive growth through the centuries into a truly universal church that spans the globe, what we now know today as the Catholic Church ('Catholic' comes from a Greek word meaning 'universal').
If the Catholic Church had not existed during the time of Peter, I would ask myself what was the church that he headed and what became of it ?
It is certainly right to put one's loyalty and faith in Christ alone but Christ gave us the Church to preserve and to teach the Christian faith as well as to administer the sacraments to help and to guide us on our journey to eternal salvation. There cannot be contradictions between Christ's teachings and that of the church he established, which he promised to be with till the end of time,
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." (Mat 28:19-20).
-
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Exactly. Well I go to mass almost everyweek.
I don't worship the Catholic church or any person in it and I am aware that they have had their failings in matters of faith and moral judgment and conduct in the past and will likely to be able to fail or have the same kind of failings aswell in the future.
So I admit that my Catholic church is not without blemish and I tend to question some of its doctrines but that doesn't mean I do not trust Christ wholly. Remember that the Catholic church claims itself as the sole church Jesus intended to build. That claim however remains a mere men's claim as the bible or any scripture never specifically write or prophesy about the catholic church to be the sole hierarchy that Christ intended. The claim that peter is the first pope of the Catholic church also remains a mere men's claim as Peter never specifically said anything about Holy Roman Catholic church and the Catholic church hadn't even existed then when he died on the reversed cross. It remains a mere claim by men.
I do however firmly believe that the Catholic church though not without its past sins, is a church that has found grace with God and Christ. And that's why I'm still a member of its congregation. Once I do not believe this any longer I would be more than happy to turn away from the Catholic church. I put my loyalty and faith in Christ alone not in any hierarchy even one which claims to have been given from God. As it is a mere claim by men.
Besides I've read astonishing testimonies from non Catholic Christians all over the world which proves that above all God is not the sole propriety of any single organization. Christ is ours as He is yours. And that Christ in this world reigns above all in the heart of men who believe in Him less than in a title of an office.
Exactly, why do you attend Church every week when you can worship God right from the comfort of your home?
I agree with what Omnia said about the Church and will not repeat.
In the Church, you worship God and God alone....not the Church, the Pope, the priest, the crucifix or the statues there......
In Church, you hear the Word of God and God (thru His priest) explained the teachings from the Bible to you, the priest administer the sacraments of the Church to you....etc
And if you have dobuts in the Church, why go in the first place? You maybe hearing the wrong things.....and how do you judge which is right and which is wrong?
I think that is a serious question you should think about.....and if you have any doubts on any of the Church doctrines, you should seek a priest and speak to him. You will get an explanation of those doctines and not question it and yet have no answer from the correct source.
Well, the choice is yours but as a Catholic, you should embraced God, His teachings and His Church 100%. I personally feel that it should be the same for any denomination or faith.
I think it is quite contradictory for you to first say that you are in a Catholic Church because she "is a church that has found grace with God and Christ" and "Once I do not believe this any longer I would be more than happy to turn away from the Catholic church"
then......
"I've read astonishing testimonies from non Catholic Christians all over the world which proves that above all God is not the sole propriety of any single organization"
You seems to says that God does exist outside the Catholic Church - meaning that non-Catholic churhes also has found grace with God and Christ (which I agree). So, why don't you go there ? Didn't you just slap yourself there? I am sure you'll find doctrines outside the Catholic Church that you do not like.....
The question I have for you is - why do you choose to be a Catholic Christian?
-
Originally posted by Pennycake:
I just re-read what you wrote, and I guess people read the part in red, and were so eager to retort that they missed out the part in blue =p
Someting I read that links to this
btw, anyone going for St. Ignatius' Youth Mass tmr (Sat 21 Feb)?
7.45-8.00 p.m. Praise & Worship
8.00-9.00 p.m. Mass
9.00-9.30 p.m. Food, Fun & Fellowship!
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=59725396762
how to get there: http://ablazesingapore.blogspot.com/2006/09/way-to-st-ignatius-and-pick-up-point.html
Thanks for reading my post in context and helping to make the points.
-
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
............................................
And if you have dobuts in the Church, why go in the first place? You maybe hearing the wrong things.....and how do you judge which is right and which is wrong?
I think that is a serious question you should think about.....and if you have any doubts on any of the Church doctrines, you should seek a priest and speak to him. You will get an explanation of those doctines and not question it and yet have no answer from the correct source.
............................................
The question I have for you is - why do you choose to be a Catholic Christian?
I have asked a Catholic priest, read the book on the topic which I had my doubts written by a catholic priest who studied theology in Rome . All seem to confirm my personal revelation though the priest disagree when I said that we are only going to be raised on the last day and he only said that we need to wait for an indetermine amount of time but he did say that according to the bible theologically speaking I was right that the dead need to wait before being raised. That even Christians need to wait before they are raised from death. That even Christians just like Jesus still descend to the world of the dead before being raised. Actually the church doctrines added during Pope John Paul II confirm that the dead need to wait before being raised. Try to find that source.
The question is why I remain Catholic? I have my personal experiences, ones which are best left private. Actually they are best not to be kept private but I don't think anybody else would believe me.