monstrance and blessed scrament stolen
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read the latest catholic news that the monstrance and the host were stolen from St. Joseph Church in bt timah on 5th jan 09. I pray that the host would be returned to the parish. Hope that the host woule not be abused by the people who stole it. i.e desecrate or something like that.
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Originally posted by Catholicuser:
read the latest catholic news that the monstrance and the host were stolen from St. Joseph Church in bt timah on 5th jan 09. I pray that the host would be returned to the parish. Hope that the host woule not be abused by the people who stole it. i.e desecrate or something like that.
Sounds serious. I heard from a catholic friend that host is very important, people can use it for evil, true or false? -
The host is important to Catholics. True.
For us, it is a sacrament and a sacrifice. In the Holy Eucharist, under the appearances of bread and wine, the Lord Christ is contained, offered, and received. (Extract from EWTN). Hence it is Holy.
However it can be used for evil. False.
God is never evil, so how can you use Him for evil?
Besides, Holy and evil have opposite meanings. -
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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Lord have mercy! Reparation and Penance now!
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
Sounds serious. I heard from a catholic friend that host is very important, people can use it for evil, true or false?Satanists or lately, atheists, procure the Blessed Sacrament for profaning. There are many ways of doing it, but I shan't say it because it is too dreadful to contemplate.
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If it is a simple case of theft, it's not so frightening....but if it is some lunatics that are trying to stir feelings and religious discomfort, then it is scary.....
There are people who talk about using the consercated host for witch craft but it has never happened before....
With that brought to my mind of "Eucharistic Miracle of Santarem" when the host was supposed to be used for witchcraft but was never allowed to happen. You can read the story here.
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Let those reap what they sow.
Aaaw somebody is going desperate? lol.
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Penance for sacrilege
(loss of monstrance)
In accordance to Canon Law 1211, our Archbishop requests the faithful to fast a meal on
Friday, 6 Feb 09
(those who can)
& to come together for Holy Hour of Reparation on
Sunday, 8 Feb 09
1pm to 2pm.
@ St.joseph's Bukit Timah=====================
Can. 1211 Sacred places are violated by gravely injurious actions done in them with scandal to the faithful, actions which, in the judgment of the local ordinary, are so grave and contrary to the holiness of the place that it is not permitted to carry on worship in them until the damage is repaired by a penitential rite according to the norm of the liturgical books.
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i read b4 satanists usually steal them to perform their version of the black mass.
hmm. this is the first time i've heard it first hand though.
but.. i dunno. everyone panics when the bread and wine disappears, lol kinda reminds me of the time when David, while fleeing, asks to eat the holy bread. can imagine the priest freaking out also, at the suggestion
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i read b4 satanists usually steal them to perform their version of the black mass.
hmm. this is the first time i've heard it first hand though.
but.. i dunno. everyone panics when the bread and wine disappears, lol kinda reminds me of the time when David, while fleeing, asks to eat the holy bread. can imagine the priest freaking out also, at the suggestion
Don't think everyone is panicking or the priest is freaking out....if you have the latest copy of Catholic News, you can read page 3 and you will know the response of the priest.
But it is a concern as the host is consecrated and it is the body of Christ. Not here to argue if that is real or not. Like God, atheist do not believe but that does not means there is no God....
We believe because it's God's Words and He has shown it to us many times....and the most famous one is probaly the miracle of Lanciano in Italy which you can read about in wiki here. This happened in AD 700 but the Flesh and Blood of the miracle can still be seen today. Many test and verifications have been done.....and you can even go and see for yourself.
So, there is reason for Catholics to feel sad....but for you, like Fr Richards says "The choice is yours" to believe or not....no problem.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
Don't think everyone is panicking or the priest is freaking out....if you have the latest copy of Catholic News, you can read page 3 and you will know the response of the priest.
But it is a concern as the host is consecrated and it is the body of Christ. Not here to argue if that is real or not. Like God, atheist do not believe but that does not means there is no God....
We believe because it's God's Words and He has shown it to us many times....and the most famous one is probaly the miracle of Lanciano in Italy which you can read about in wiki here. This happened in AD 700 but the Flesh and Blood of the miracle can still be seen today. Many test and verifications have been done.....and you can even go and see for yourself.
So, there is reason for Catholics to feel sad....but for you, like Fr Richards says "The choice is yours" to believe or not....no problem.
mm this is remarkable. okok, i know i'm hairsplitting and being petty here, but this is how i honestly feel:
firstly, with utmost respect and by no mean to insult, the bible do say that demons can perform miracles too, as seen during moses time. i don't think this is the case la.
2ndly, if it wasn't demons, the priest wasn't asking God is the bread and wine really embodiment of his flesh and blood, when it turned. He was asking of a different issue. whether can unleavened bread be used or not. and God answered it, just like God telling peter to eat unclean food.
when someone ask God again if the bread and wine is really literally his flesh and blood, and it turns, let me know.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
mm this is remarkable. okok, i know i'm hairsplitting and being petty here, but this is how i honestly feel:
firstly, with utmost respect and by no mean to insult, the bible do say that demons can perform miracles too, as seen during moses time. i don't think this is the case la.
2ndly, if it wasn't demons, the priest wasn't asking God is the bread and wine really embodiment of his flesh and blood, when it turned. He was asking of a different issue. whether can unleavened bread be used or not. and God answered it, just like God telling peter to eat unclean food.
when someone ask God again if the bread and wine is really literally his flesh and blood, and it turns, let me know.
Yes, demons can do miracles too and glad that you agreed that this is not one of them. This is not the only one that happened......and perhaps you can go to this link and scroll down the page to see the different ones that happened according to countries....
The real presence is proven and is there for us to see.....and scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist proved it's authenticity........to believe it or not is up to you but the facts remained regardless of your choice.
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http://www.anawim.pair.com/CATHOLICS/CATHOLIC%20MASS.htm
"look at John 6:52-55, the Jews had a hard time believing Jesus' words as do non-Catholics."
"Non-Catholics believe that John 6:53 is merely a symbol and not the actual presence of Christ. If Jesus were truly a symbol, then verse 27 through 29 in 1 Cor. 11 would not make sense."
May I ask which church you're from, dumbdumb? (why did you pick such a screen name, I feel bad when I address you like that.. like I'm insulting you =.=" haha.) I'm from the same church as your girlfriend!! I read the Holy Cross thread =p and I just signed up with sgforums to reply to you here!
When I attended the service at my Baptist boyfriend's church this last Sunday (1 Feb), which was their "Lord's Supper Sunday".. I couldn't help crying to myself when they were having "communion". =(
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By the way, I'd like to know.. what's the purpose of communion if it's just a symbol? what's the point of eating it?!
Usually when we eat something, it becomes part of us.. we consume the Eucharist in order to become more like Christ. It is our spiritual food and drink.
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Originally posted by Pennycake:
http://www.anawim.pair.com/CATHOLICS/CATHOLIC%20MASS.htm
"look at John 6:52-55, the Jews had a hard time believing Jesus' words as do non-Catholics."
"Non-Catholics believe that John 6:53 is merely a symbol and not the actual presence of Christ. If Jesus were truly a symbol, then verse 27 through 29 in 1 Cor. 11 would not make sense."
May I ask which church you're from, dumbdumb? (why did you pick such a screen name, I feel bad when I address you like that.. like I'm insulting you =.=" haha.) I'm from the same church as your girlfriend!! I read the Holy Cross thread =p and I just signed up with sgforums to reply to you here!
When I attended the service at my Baptist boyfriend's church this last Sunday (1 Feb), which was their "Lord's Supper Sunday".. I couldn't help crying to myself when they were having "communion". =(
hmm. we believe it's a reminder. And when he told the disciples when he did, he was telling them about what he was going to do.
in 1 cor 11, u hv to understand the context of what happened.
The Lord's Supper
17In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval. 20When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, 21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.
there are 2 issues which paul wishes to address here: first, the disunity in the church, and 2nd, the unworthy way they see the communion.
apparently you have to understand what the communion symbolize. the bread, symbolize the body, we are all part of the body of Christ, the blood, poured out for our sins, made from many grapes crushed together and fermented together.
it is appropriate that we all take it together, as a symbolism of unity, as a body. but apparently that's not so during that time. everyone takes it whenever they wish it, instead of together. some don't wait for the bread to be passed around, but quickly gulp his share etc, instead of waiting for everyone to be ready to take it together. the spirit of unity.
it's again, like how my friends although order their food already, wait for the others' food to arrive before tucking in.
the second issue, taking the communion in an unworthy manner. take note, that some church goers, treat the communion as some sort of breakfast meal. they come early to church, grab a huge hunk of bread, and eat it and gulp down the wine. and get drunk in the process.
is this how u remember the Lord's sacrifice? that's what paul is trying to say.
but it doesn't mean that the bread is really Jesus' body, or the wine is really his blood. it's purely symbolic. you can go test the wine now and test the bread that u use everyday, unless God performs another miracle, it's just bread, and it's just wine. but it symbolize everything Christ wanted for the church - to remember He died for us, to remember that we can now stand before a holy God in freedom and joy, to remember we don't have to hide in shame, to remember that He loves us, to remember to love others as He loves us.
a metaphor: when we sing the national anthem and recite the national pledge, it only symbolize the spirit behind the pledge and anthem right? that's all to it. if we treat the spirit (of unity in this case), by not standing still and upright, we're not being respectful.
but does that mean the flag becomes the person who wrote the anthem of pledge?
so basically 2 issues paul addressed.
1) the need for unity in the family of God
2) not to treat Christ's sacrifice lightly.
so when we take communion - remember, if we have any arguments with anyone, make peace with that person first, before taking it, if we have any sins, confess them in ur heart, before taking it.
that's the proper way of taking it.
i remember my gf got brief me how to take communion (during christmas eve mass), the priest will say something, and i must say something also. is that really the proper way? personally i don't think so.
it is more important to do what i embolded above, than to recite a procedural phrase isn't it.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
Yes, demons can do miracles too and glad that you agreed that this is not one of them. This is not the only one that happened......and perhaps you can go to this link and scroll down the page to see the different ones that happened according to countries....
The real presence is proven and is there for us to see.....and scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist proved it's authenticity........to believe it or not is up to you but the facts remained regardless of your choice.
oh, i don't doubt that it's real.
but i'm just pointing out that, the priest was asking God about a different issue, and God answered it.
i'm waiting for someone in the catholic community to ask God if that is really his flesh and blood, and that miracle happened again, then that'll prove that i'm wrong.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
oh, i don't doubt that it's real.
but i'm just pointing out that, the priest was asking God about a different issue, and God answered it.
i'm waiting for someone in the catholic community to ask God if that is really his flesh and blood, and that miracle happened again, then that'll prove that i'm wrong.
It's ok to doubt....it does not change the fact that it is real, happened and proven for all to see.....but if you chose not to believe, you will not.....no matter what the facts are.
It has already happened so many times and there is no need to prove you wrong.......it's proven many times over.
It's like telling an atheist about God.....they will never agree or believe but the fact that God is real will not change.....That's the kind of feelings here.....
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
It's ok to doubt....it does not change the fact that it is real, happened and proven for all to see.....but if you chose not to believe, you will not.....no matter what the facts are.
It has already happened so many times and there is no need to prove you wrong.......it's proven many times over.
It's like telling an atheist about God.....they will never agree or believe but the fact that God is real will not change.....That's the kind of feelings here.....
i'm not sure you even know what i'm talking about.
let me use another metaphor:
if someone ask me a question, say, am i christian, and I say "Yes", he can't go around telling people that dumbdumb is anti-buddhist, because he says "Yes".
a bad metaphor, but what i'm trying to say is, i don't think God is answering the question that the bread is really his physical body, and the wine, his physical blood.
so i don't believe it, not because i don't believe the miracle is fake or anything. but i believe that the miracle was to answer a different question.
basically
it's not even proven that it is his physical body or blood. I believe God was answering another question with a miracle, but not the question of whether the bread and wine is his real body and blood
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
It's ok to doubt....it does not change the fact that it is real, happened and proven for all to see.....but if you chose not to believe, you will not.....no matter what the facts are.
It has already happened so many times and there is no need to prove you wrong.......it's proven many times over.
It's like telling an atheist about God.....they will never agree or believe but the fact that God is real will not change.....That's the kind of feelings here.....
that's what dan brown said about the "proofs" that Jesus is married to Mary.
countless records
undisputed proofs
etc etc.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i'm not sure you even know what i'm talking about.
let me use another metaphor:
if someone ask me a question, say, am i christian, and I say "Yes", he can't go around telling people that dumbdumb is anti-buddhist, because he says "Yes".
a bad metaphor, but what i'm trying to say is, i don't think God is answering the question that the bread is really his physical body, and the wine, his physical blood.
so i don't believe it, not because i don't believe the miracle is fake or anything. but i believe that the miracle was to answer a different question.
basically
it's not even proven that it is his physical body or blood. I believe God was answering another question with a miracle, but not the question of whether the bread and wine is his real body and blood
Ya, I know what you are looking at....the unleaven bread thing....maybe wiki article gave you the wrong idea....perhaps, you should read the story here.
Yes, God has shown that the bread and wine is the real body and blood of Christ and has shown it many times.....
And all the rest of the stories.....in the previous link.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
that's what dan brown said about the "proofs" that Jesus is married to Mary.
countless records
undisputed proofs
etc etc.
Why do we even want to believe dan brown? He is is an American author of thriller fiction.....and he got undisputed proofs?
This is what wiki said:
Although Brown's books are criticized as being anti-Christian, Brown states on his website that he is a Christian and says of his book The Da Vinci Code that it is simply "an entertaining story that promotes spiritual discussion and debate" and suggests that the book may be used "as a positive catalyst for introspection and exploration of our faith"
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lol, christian.
actually the movie did drive me to find out more. learnt alot of things in the process.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
Ya, I know what you are looking at....the unleaven bread thing....maybe wiki article gave you the wrong idea....perhaps, you should read the story here.
Yes, God has shown that the bread and wine is the real body and blood of Christ and has shown it many times.....
And all the rest of the stories.....in the previous link.
k, i was wondering why u kept going on about many proofs etc.
i'll read it later.