Holy Cross at Clementi
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i'm one of the guys who go there.. well, the church was going through extensive renovations for over a year and it's finally complete...
here are some pics of Holy Cross from yesterday when i attended the Sunset Mass for The Assumption of Mother Mary
This was the newly completed grotto... blessed last night by Father Richards Ambrose
And this is the front of the church..
And the inside..
The front facade of the church was finally complete this week and unveiled for all to see
and not forgetting what day it is today..
amen...
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Yes, this is a beautiful Church and you forgot to take a shot of the right hand side of the Church.....many did not know that right here in Singapore, we have the relic of the Holy Cross that Jesus was nailed onto. It may be a tiny piece but we do have it.
For those who do not know, go take a look - it is right beside the choir stand. God Bless.
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i never go church before. lol
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the one opposite nan hua high sch?
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Originally posted by NG QIBO AARON AUBREY:
the one opposite nan hua high sch?
Yes...Do visit as this is a beautiful Church and the first Parish Priest is our current Archbishop Nicholas Chia who is involved in building this Church.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
i'm one of the guys who go there.. well, the church was going through extensive renovations for over a year and it's finally complete...
here are some pics of Holy Cross from yesterday when i attended the Sunset Mass for The Assumption of Mother Mary
This was the newly completed grotto... blessed last night by Father Richards Ambrose
And this is the front of the church..And the inside..
The front facade of the church was finally complete this week and unveiled for all to see
and not forgetting what day it is today..
amen...
Thanks, Bear.
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just went recently,, very nicely renovated comapred to the previous.. yes.. the current archbishop Nicholas Chia is from Holy Cross.. Fr. Ambrose parish priest .. so many diocese priests seem to be going ard .. i nearly lost touch where they posted to..
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nice..
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wa
i not christian or anything
but that, is a work of art
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wow sad to say i only go church when got taiji
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i just went there for the midnight mass. see see look look
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i just went there for the midnight mass. see see look look
Your gf brought you there?
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
Your gf brought you there?
yup. the sermon was abit rushed i felt. lol i expected the church to be ancient, quite.. surprised at the nice clean modern look
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
yup. the sermon was abit rushed i felt. lol i expected the church to be ancient, quite.. surprised at the nice clean modern look
:)
So nice of you to attend midnight Mass with your gf.
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
:)
So nice of you to attend midnight Mass with your gf.
hmm i'm hoping we can take turn to go each other's church. and experience different culture. and more importantly, find out the truth, and increase our ferventness for God
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
hmm i'm hoping we can take turn to go each other's church. and experience different culture. and more importantly, find out the truth, and increase our ferventness for God
The Church is modern because it was just renovated....if "ancient, traditional and old" Churches is what you are looking for, go to St Joseph Waterloo St, St Peter & Paul just down the street from St Joseph Waterloo and the Cathedral just across St Peter & Paul.
There are many more such as St Teresa and Nativity but above few are in town and easy to get there.
What's more important is that going Mass at any Church will confirmed that Catholics DO NOT pray to Mother Mary (as a God) and there is NO IDOLATORY practised. Right? Hope you continue to explore with an open mind.
I wrote this because I read your past posts and realised that you are anti-Catholics for reasons which I think you have been mis-lead on (just person opinion and I may be wrong).
Hope your frequent trip with your gf will allow God to show you what the real and true Catholic faith is about...... and see how God works in mysterious way by sending you a Catholic gf when you have strong views (wrong views in my opinion) about them?
By the way, did you know that there is a relic in this Church? There is a splinter of the Cross that Jesus was crucified on in this Church. It is located on the right hand side (if you are facing the alter) just behind the choir. Go take a look.....the real piece of Cross where our Lord died on to save us....a very tiny piece I must admit.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
The Church is modern because it was just renovated....if "ancient, traditional and old" Churches is what you are looking for, go to St Joseph Waterloo St, St Peter & Paul just down the street from St Joseph Waterloo and the Cathedral just across St Peter & Paul.
There are many more such as St Teresa and Nativity but above few are in town and easy to get there.
What's more important is that going Mass at any Church will confirmed that Catholics DO NOT pray to Mother Mary (as a God) and there is NO IDOLATORY practised. Right? Hope you continue to explore with an open mind.
I wrote this because I read your past posts and realised that you are anti-Catholics for reasons which I think you have been mis-lead on (just person opinion and I may be wrong).
Hope your frequent trip with your gf will allow God to show you what the real and true Catholic faith is about...... and see how God works in mysterious way by sending you a Catholic gf when you have strong views (wrong views in my opinion) about them?
By the way, did you know that there is a relic in this Church? There is a splinter of the Cross that Jesus was crucified on in this Church. It is located on the right hand side (if you are facing the alter) just behind the choir. Go take a look.....the real piece of Cross where our Lord died on to save us....a very tiny piece I must admit.
it.. doesn't really matter to me whether the relic is real or not. so long as the church does what she's called to do.
i must say, i quite enjoyed the midnight service. except.. i don't get the incense part and why did they anoint the decorations? it's the only thing i found abit disturbing
well.. so far. i have only found 2 nice catholics, my aunt (despite her not sharing the good news to my family), and my gf.
my gf's friend, who is a catholic, has been a total ass to me la, so far.
i am not sure, if this is true, but i feel that the catholics have a rather exclusive culture, where.. they make it very obvious that outsiders are outsiders, and the catholics are in their own clique, through their actions and speech.
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but.. may i ask a question, because i always get different answers from catholics. my gf, feels that even though a person rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior, he can still goto heaven.
is that a catholic teaching, or is she just mistaken?
i ask this, because.. we actually argued about this. and she told me she believes that even if someone doesn't trust Jesus for salvation, and dies, he still can goto heaven, because God is a merciful God. And she affirms that a catholic priest taught that
i understand and accept that, even among protestants, there are many slightly different doctrine, but we all agree that Jesus is the only way to salvation, so being disturbed by her answer (i told her she can't just anyhow change the rules of how the game is played, to suit how she think God is. While God is merciful, He is also holy and just. Sin is still sin, and sin must be punished by death. He could only extend His mercy to us, and keep His standard of holiness through Jesus' death)
so being disturbed, i asked a friend, who is also dating a catholic, and have really explored the catholic faith rather throughly, whether is it true that catholics believe that, and she said no, catholics don't.
so.. bottom line is, i have 2 different opinions to this very fundamental truth. So, I don't really want to care about doctrine, because doctrine is quite influenced by man.. I just want to know if we agree on fundamental truths - trinity, Jesus's died and rose again, paying for all of mankind's sin, and we are saved by grace - which develops the fruit of salvation, which are good works, and love for others.
What's more important is that going Mass at any Church will confirmed that Catholics DO NOT pray to Mother Mary (as a God) and there is NO IDOLATORY practised. Right? Hope you continue to explore with an open mind.
this can only be confirmed by catholics honestly answering this,
one day (i don't think this will ever happen), a catholic priest decides to build a church, but didn't built any idols, would the catholics feel it's no big deal - after all, it's still a church, or would they make noise about it - like because they feel that something is missing.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
this can only be confirmed by catholics honestly answering this,
one day (i don't think this will ever happen), a catholic priest decides to build a church, but didn't built any idols, would the catholics feel it's no big deal - after all, it's still a church, or would they make noise about it - like because they feel that something is missing.
If you understand what praying to Mother Mary is all about, you will know the answer. It is as simple as you praying for your love ones or friends. If you can ask your friend to help you pray, you can ask Mother Mary and all the other Saints to help you pray. What you asked for will be granted and can only be granted by God - NOT Mother Mary or the Saints.....they only help you pray to Jesus to grant it to you (like your friends.....and you can accept them as your friends too!).
The answer is in the Mass you attend when you know that we all pray to God and God alone.....never Mother Mary or the Saints.
Churches will statues of Saints are never a problem even with God (he did order to build them....) and it is part of the Catholics traditions to remember the Saints and their contribution to the Church. No reason we should do away with that because of others misconception right?
There are many occassions where Catholics do celebrate Mass outside the Church such as lunch time Mass at Suntec Rock auditorium.....no problems at all. Nothing is missing....
Hope that when you spend enough time with the Catholic Church, you will surely begin to see that and will dispel your misconceptions.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
it.. doesn't really matter to me whether the relic is real or not. so long as the church does what she's called to do.
i must say, i quite enjoyed the midnight service. except.. i don't get the incense part and why did they anoint the decorations? it's the only thing i found abit disturbing
well.. so far. i have only found 2 nice catholics, my aunt (despite her not sharing the good news to my family), and my gf.
my gf's friend, who is a catholic, has been a total ass to me la, so far.
i am not sure, if this is true, but i feel that the catholics have a rather exclusive culture, where.. they make it very obvious that outsiders are outsiders, and the catholics are in their own clique, through their actions and speech.
It's strange that you feel the way you do.....most people going to Holy Cross are quite nice and I do know quite a few people there.....though I don't go there often.
On the other hand, I personally feel that the protestant christians are the one who preached to be exclusive (such as having exculsive salvation right - will alk about that later) and some even do not encourage having non-christians as friends!
I think it will help if you open your mind and heart and let the pass experiences go......it may change the world for you....perspective wise at least.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
It's strange that you feel the way you do.....most people going to Holy Cross are quite nice and I do know quite a few people there.....though I don't go there often.
On the other hand, I personally feel that the protestant christians are the one who preached to be exclusive (such as having exculsive salvation right - will alk about that later) and some even do not encourage having non-christians as friends!
I think it will help if you open your mind and heart and let the pass experiences go......it may change the world for you....perspective wise at least.
oh no, i had a nice time at holy cross, but that's only because i went with my gf.
i was refering to personal acquaintences who are coincidently catholics.
when i mean exclusive, i mean, cliquey. they'll only talk to their own "kind", nice to their own "kind" etc. it's like, you need to earn some kind of "membership" before they can "do unto others".
imagine, i went to holy family once, to watch a choir performance, and after everything was over, the people who invited me would all get engrossed in talking about it, and walk on deserting me, even forgetting my existance as a new visitor for quite awhile. totally lost in their own world.
and, salvation is exclusive through Jesus, so it wouldn't be the church fault that God made it so.
and yes, i have.. heard of cases where protestant churches are pretty underhand in their teachings about having non believing friends. i used to be from a church which preached that actually, undertable practices.
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Originally posted by Smarty Boy:
If you understand what praying to Mother Mary is all about, you will know the answer. It is as simple as you praying for your love ones or friends. If you can ask your friend to help you pray, you can ask Mother Mary and all the other Saints to help you pray. What you asked for will be granted and can only be granted by God - NOT Mother Mary or the Saints.....they only help you pray to Jesus to grant it to you (like your friends.....and you can accept them as your friends too!).
The answer is in the Mass you attend when you know that we all pray to God and God alone.....never Mother Mary or the Saints.
Churches will statues of Saints are never a problem even with God (he did order to build them....) and it is part of the Catholics traditions to remember the Saints and their contribution to the Church. No reason we should do away with that because of others misconception right?
There are many occassions where Catholics do celebrate Mass outside the Church such as lunch time Mass at Suntec Rock auditorium.....no problems at all. Nothing is missing....
Hope that when you spend enough time with the Catholic Church, you will surely begin to see that and will dispel your misconceptions.
yup, i have heard.
but u see ah.. even within the christian protestants, there are 2 school of thoughts regarding death. Where some says that the person is "asleep" waiting to be risen by Christ for judgement.
While others believe that a person who died is judged and goes to paradise or hell.
but let's not discuss here la. not appropriate topic, after i get banned or smth.
i'm just appreciating my gf here and just commenting that holy cross is v nicely furnished.
lol she did say that, this church used to be the archbishop's or smth, so he always make sure this church gets the best resources. =x
and the priest with the mustache is scary. =x i think his name's.. richard hahaha =D
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The Archbishop Nicholas Chia was from Holy Cross.
The "scary" priest is Father Richards Ambrose... don't let his stern demeanour put you off, he's a very nice man... he's just kind of loud because he's a very passionate man
and as for the renovations, and resource... i don't really think so coz the church was in need of major renovations.. the floor was a mess, the ceiling was sagging and in danger of falling, and we needed a lot more space...
instead of just repairing, why not do it right?
the design was strongly influenced by Father Richards...
p.s. the grotto is very peaceful even when cars rush around the place... places like that are rare and is balm for the tired soul
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
but.. may i ask a question, because i always get different answers from catholics. my gf, feels that even though a person rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior, he can still goto heaven.
is that a catholic teaching, or is she just mistaken?
i ask this, because.. we actually argued about this. and she told me she believes that even if someone doesn't trust Jesus for salvation, and dies, he still can goto heaven, because God is a merciful God. And she affirms that a catholic priest taught that
i understand and accept that, even among protestants, there are many slightly different doctrine, but we all agree that Jesus is the only way to salvation, so being disturbed by her answer (i told her she can't just anyhow change the rules of how the game is played, to suit how she think God is. While God is merciful, He is also holy and just. Sin is still sin, and sin must be punished by death. He could only extend His mercy to us, and keep His standard of holiness through Jesus' death)
so being disturbed, i asked a friend, who is also dating a catholic, and have really explored the catholic faith rather throughly, whether is it true that catholics believe that, and she said no, catholics don't.
so.. bottom line is, i have 2 different opinions to this very fundamental truth. So, I don't really want to care about doctrine, because doctrine is quite influenced by man.. I just want to know if we agree on fundamental truths - trinity, Jesus's died and rose again, paying for all of mankind's sin, and we are saved by grace - which develops the fruit of salvation, which are good works, and love for others.
this can only be confirmed by catholics honestly answering this,
one day (i don't think this will ever happen), a catholic priest decides to build a church, but didn't built any idols, would the catholics feel it's no big deal - after all, it's still a church, or would they make noise about it - like because they feel that something is missing.
Your gf is absolutely right and your other friend is not. So there are no 2 opinions about this and I am very sure. Think about it, you agree that God is great, forgiving, loving etc.....why would He want to condem one of His own children to hell just because he is not a christian? This especially if the child is a good one who is always loving and giving to others?
As converts, we have many ancestors (some must be good people right?) and why would we want to worhip a "god" that will send all our ancestors to hell?
Having said that, it does not means that we contradict that Jesus is the only way to salvation.... He is.
Jesus is the only one tasked by God to judge and He told us exactly what we need to do in Mt 25:31-46 Last Judgement. It is about love and charity that we do that will qualify us to be sheep. I.E. sheep are true disciple of Christ who listen and act on His words (read Mt 7:21-27 and Lk 13:25-28).
Unfortunately, we are not saved by grace alone.....because St Paul never said so. This also drive the big divide in doctrines preached. Read Jas 2:14-26 which to my understanding is that it disturb Martin Luther so much that he actually removed the entire book of James from the bible he preached.
St Paul said in one of the letters (I need to go and find if you must have the quote) that we are judged according to the Gospel he preached and those with law will be judged by the laws and something to that effect.
Depending on how you want to understand and read the bible, salvation is indeed by faith and deeds. Not when we profess our faith or faith alone.
When we profess our faith, it is an indication that we accepted Christ. Having done that, we need to co-operate with Him so that He can accept us into the Kingdom of God. How? By listening and following His Words like I mentioned earlier (read Mt 7:21-27 and Lk 13:25-28).
When we all die, we will meet with Jesus (regardless if we believe Him or not) and face our judgement. The questions He will asked is what He told us in Mt 25:31-46. Our answer determine where we go......
And there is this strong views also about purgatory.....the word was never mentioned in the bible (just like the word Thrinity) but the idea was as in the bible and you can read them up on the following:
(2 Macc. 12:44-45), (Matt. 5:25-26), (1 Cor. 3:13-15), (1 Peter 3:18-20), (Rev. 21:27)
and that gives all who are imperfect (we all are) a chance to be purify by God so that we can finally enter into His Kingdom.
I hope my answer can satisfy you but I am really not trained to do so. The best place you can have a better understanding and know what Catholics is about is the RCIA.
You can go and join one as there are no obligation and you can stop anytime. Or take a copy of the bi-monthly Catholic News and check for talks that are relating to what you want to know and attend them.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
The Archbishop Nicholas Chia was from Holy Cross.
The "scary" priest is Father Richards Ambrose... don't let his stern demeanour put you off, he's a very nice man... he's just kind of loud because he's a very passionate man
and as for the renovations, and resource... i don't really think so coz the church was in need of major renovations.. the floor was a mess, the ceiling was sagging and in danger of falling, and we needed a lot more space...
instead of just repairing, why not do it right?
the design was strongly influenced by Father Richards...
p.s. the grotto is very peaceful even when cars rush around the place... places like that are rare and is balm for the tired soul
i have no idea what's a grotto.
but yes, it's very restful. as you know. i'm rather.. uneasy around statues and altars etc. some churches they really.. pile up on the candles and flowers etc, and it kinda creeps me out.
but i feel very comfortable at holy cross. very nicely done. =)
lol. my gf was saying, father richard wanted to drag in a coffin and place a mirror in it so that every member of the church can go take a look and imagine their spiritual state. all dead in the spirit. lol. and her mum was so pissed off, but it's so great that he dares to speak out and give a wake up call for listeners.
even my gf.. she everytime hear sermon, and walks away without keeping any bit of the message for applications. i think.. all christians after awhile, have the tendency to do that, hear hear msg, oh ok, service over, go home.. it becomes a routine. but if you really believe that God is in the house, and it is Him who speaks through the speaker.
how can you not take the sermon seriously for application?
even for myself.