Traditional Mass
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Actually its mainly becauseOriginally posted by catinthehat:For those who join the SSPX, well... err... I don't know. Maybe they are taken in by the SSPX propaganda.
But I really want to emphasize. There are options within the Catholic church, like the FSSP, if you want to be trained in the traditional rite.
1) They cant train in the traditional rite in the seminaries
2) They are not allowed to practise the Traditional Rite
3) They wish to save the church from the perils of modernism ( propoganda) -
All these are no excuses for insubordination.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Actually its mainly because
1) They cant train in the traditional rite in the seminaries
2) They are not allowed to practise the Traditional Rite
3) They wish to save the church from the perils of modernism ( propoganda)
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The SSPX uses Canon Law to prove its not unsubordination. I seen enough of it haha.Originally posted by Icemoon:All these are no excuses for insubordination.
I intend to speak to my parish priest to ask him abt it. -
Insubordination is defined with respect to the magistrium, not canon law.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:The SSPX uses Canon Law to prove its not unsubordination. I seen enough of it haha.
I intend to speak to my parish priest to ask him abt it.
Unless it is against moral law, you will be insurbordinating if you refuse to follow orders of your superior officer or higher HQ. -
You better be polite. The topic is kinda taboo.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I intend to speak to my parish priest to ask him abt it.
Wait they interrogate ask what's your relationship with them. -
Those orders must be in according to law. If ur sarge told u to kill a pregnant women, would u do it? Are u insurbodinating?Originally posted by Icemoon:Insubordination is defined with respect to the magistrium, not canon law.
Unless it is against moral law, you will be insurbordinating if you refuse to follow orders of your superior officer or higher HQ.
If the SSPX do not break canon laws (they argue that pt), they are not in disobidence. They further argue they are merely following the works of the saints and holy ppl who lived b4 vatican2 haha.
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I am the Pope remember....Originally posted by Icemoon:You better be polite. The topic is kinda taboo.
Wait they interrogate ask what's your relationship with them.
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that's why I said moral law, whatever the definition. However the SSPX did not disobey Vatican because Vatican made all the dioceses kill pregnant women.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Those orders must be in according to law. If ur sarge told u to kill a pregnant women, would u do it? Are u insurbodinating?
If the SSPX do not break canon laws (they argue that pt), they are not in disobidence. They further argue they are merely following the works of the saints and holy ppl who lived b4 vatican2 haha.
Last time policemen wear shorts. If policemen now start to wear shorts to be like policemen last time, then they are insurbodinating.
Furthermore, you cannot fall back on canon law because in the biblical analogy, sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath. So canon law is made to serve the Church.
So when canon law is made to serve the Church, this includes the preservation of unity. -
Your hand is consecrated or not?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I am the Pope remember.... 
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My whole bod consecreated haha...anythign i touch also...Midas Touch hahaOriginally posted by Icemoon:Your hand is consecrated or not? -
The SSPX position is illogical. If the Church is infallible, then there is no reason to reject the teachings of the Second Vatican Council. Otherwise, the Church is not infallible.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:The SSPX, for its part, considers itself faithful to the Catholic Church and all its infallible teachings, while rejecting what it sees as novelties in the teaching of the Second Vatican Council,[citation needed] and it has acknowledged Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Pope John Paul II, and Pope Benedict XVI as Popes.
And by selectively rejecting the teachings of Vatican II, by implication, the SSPX is setting itself up as an alternative Magisterium, since it has arrogated to itself the discernment required to separate true from false teachings. That being the case, how can it claim to be faithful to the Catholic Church?
Btw, I am also looking forward to the day when Pope Benedict XVI allows for the wider use of the Tridentine liturgy.
regards,
obiterdicta -
The Church is not infallible. Mr Pope refers to the acknowledgement of infallible teachings.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:The SSPX position is illogical. If the Church is infallible, then there is no reason to reject the teachings of the Second Vatican Council. Otherwise, the Church is not infallible.
Which means to say not all teachings are infallible. Agree? -
U must understand NO dogmas/infallible doctrines was issued in Vatican 2. I saw a video that the effects of Vatican 2 in Europe is crazy. Pizza Communion, dancing Priest, women giving out communion, speaking of tongues during Mass, priest letting women sing in the altar, homosexual priest etc etc. The effects of those fallible teachings reallie hurt the western churches, thats why many priest and people flocked to SSPX. Ins ingapore everything is okay.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:The SSPX position is illogical. If the Church is infallible, then there is no reason to reject the teachings of the Second Vatican Council. Otherwise, the Church is not infallible.
And by selectively rejecting the teachings of Vatican II, by implication, the SSPX is setting itself up as an alternative Magisterium, since it has arrogated to itself the discernment required to separate true from false teachings. That being the case, how can it claim to be faithful to the Catholic Church?
Btw, I am also looking forward to the day when Pope Benedict XVI allows for the wider use of the Tridentine liturgy.
regards,
obiterdicta
I personally feel some pastoral teachings in Vatican 2 does not benefit the Church and that the Tridentine mass Indult should be negated. I feel however majority of vatican 2 calls for reform should be heeded. -
Vatican 2 did not issue any infallible teachings.Originally posted by Icemoon:The Church is not infallible. Mr Pope refers to the acknowledgement of infallible teachings.
Which means to say not all teachings are infallible. Agree? -
singapore still mostly follows american ways, hence the curious but non-incorrect practice of holding hands during the lord's prayer.
in any case, I suspect another reform of the church might be neccessary. we are inclusive, of course, but the church needs to take a definitive stand on issues and enforce them accordingly.
and then there's also a need to watch our behaviour in church outside mass... people tend to forget that it's still god's house... -
Communion by hand etc are very American. I agree. The Archbishop must start taking a MORE PASTORAL role instead of writing books on theology which no one reads.Originally posted by Ariedartin:singapore still mostly follows american ways, hence the curious but non-incorrect practice of holding hands during the lord's prayer.
in any case, I suspect another reform of the church might be neccessary. we are inclusive, of course, but the church needs to take a definitive stand on issues and enforce them accordingly.
and then there's also a need to watch our behaviour in church outside mass... people tend to forget that it's still god's house...
I had a priest from Indian during Christmas Mass and for the first time in a looooooong time I heard a priest actually quoting Scriptures. Is there anything wrong wif our seminaries? -
http://www.unavoce.org/cardinal_ratzinger_chile.htmOriginally posted by Pope Nicholas:Vatican 2 did not issue any infallible teachings.
"It is a necessary task to defend the Second Vatican Council against Msgr. Lefebvre, as valid, and as binding upon the Church. Certainly there is a mentality of narrow views that isolate Vatican II and which has provoked this opposition. There are many accounts of it which give the impression that, from Vatican II onward, everything has been changed, and that what preceded it has no value or, at best, has value only in the light of Vatican II." -
There is nothing wrong with Vatican 2, but only the way it was interpreted.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:U must understand NO dogmas/infallible doctrines was issued in Vatican 2. I saw a video that the effects of Vatican 2 in Europe is crazy. Pizza Communion, dancing Priest, women giving out communion, speaking of tongues during Mass, priest letting women sing in the altar, homosexual priest etc etc. The effects of those fallible teachings reallie hurt the western churches, thats why many priest and people flocked to SSPX. Ins ingapore everything is okay.
I personally feel some pastoral teachings in Vatican 2 does not benefit the Church and that the Tridentine mass Indult should be negated. I feel however majority of vatican 2 calls for reform should be heeded. -
Vatican 2 did not issue infallible doctrines - a factOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:There is nothing wrong with Vatican 2, but only the way it was interpreted.
I agree, the cardinals and bishops are too busy arguing abt theology while many of their sheeps are being purged by wolves.
“Through some crack the smoke of satan has entered into the temple of God: the doubt, uncertainty, the problematic, the inquietude, the dissatisfaction occur daily... We would have believed that the day after the Council would be a day of sun for the Church. But we have found new storms. We seek to dig new abysses in place of filling them up.” — Pope Paul VI, Discourse of June 29, 1972
I think Pope Benedict XVI will set things rite. The pro multis change etc etc will benefit the Church.
Can someone explain to me WHY the POPE said this...i am confused....
“The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic world. The darkness of satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the highest levels within the Church.”
- Pope Paul VI, October 13, 1977 -
Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:
Fear not, feed yourself with this.
Vatican 2 did not issue infallible doctrines - a fact
I agree, the cardinals and bishops are too busy arguing abt theology while many of their sheeps are being purged by wolves.
“Through some crack the smoke of satan has entered into the temple of God: the doubt, uncertainty, the problematic, the inquietude, the dissatisfaction occur daily... We would have believed that the day after the Council would be a day of sun for the Church. But we have found new storms. We seek to dig new abysses in place of filling them up.” — Pope Paul VI, Discourse of June 29, 1972
I think Pope Benedict XVI will set things rite. The pro multis change etc etc will benefit the Church.
Can someone explain to me WHY the POPE said this...i am confused....
“The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic world. [b]The darkness of satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the highest levels within the Church.”
- Pope Paul VI, October 13, 1977
[/b]
http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/11/the_smoke_of_sa.html -
I'm stuffed in the first 30 seconds.
in any case, it may be influences of modern society that he's concerned about. people are getting more lax and taking more ignorant attitudes toward christianity. not just catholics, of course, but we're probably taking the worst hit. -
THANKS!!!Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Fear not, feed yourself with this.
http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/11/the_smoke_of_sa.html
There are still many problems in our Church todae. It must be swept clean.
I do not blame Vatican 2, onli Vatican 2- GENERATION cleargy. They have slacken.
Refusing communion by tongue.....next time i kneel and see what happens. -
And the minister will say "remain on your knees".Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Refusing communion by tongue.....next time i kneel and see what happens.
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LOL haha.Originally posted by Icemoon:And the minister will say "remain on your knees".