Traditional Mass
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I came across the Tridentine Mass online and it looks reallie beautiful. The Tridentine Mass is centuries old....maybe 1500yr old haha. We are using the Novus Ordo Mass which was formualted in vatican 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE
Tell me ur thoughts on it. Is the Novus Ordo Mass better or not.
Personally i feel the tridentine Mass is waay better. Can anyone tell me which parish ahs it. -
linkie.........Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I came across the Tridentine Mass online and it looks reallie beautiful. The Tridentine Mass is centuries old....maybe 1500yr old haha. We are using the Novus Ordo Mass which was formualted in vatican 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE
Tell me ur thoughts on it. Is the Novus Ordo Mass better or not.
Personally i feel the tridentine Mass is waay better. Can anyone tell me which parish ahs it. -
there was a patriachal mass or something on thursday... can't remember now... it's not tridentine, but it is eastern rite catholic and about as old.
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I just attended this year's tridentine with a forummer .. lol
No parish has it in Singapore. You can try SSPX .. -
I think i will do it soon. Got school next year hiaz. I have a SSPX friend who has giving me invitations haha.Originally posted by Icemoon:I just attended this year's tridentine with a forummer .. lol
No parish has it in Singapore. You can try SSPX ..
SSPX is not in schism btw. -
Go there see see should be no problem. Just don't take their bread and wine.
but going to their mass seems like a taboo thing, if you consider even the Tridentine sanctioned by the bishop is not announced over official channel like the church bulletin. -
Can someone organize a SSPX outing?
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Though the Holy See declared the 1988 consecrations a schismatic act, it does not view SSPX as constituting a schismatic Church, but has stated that some SSPX members are personally schismatic. Lefebvre and the four bishops have been regarded by the Church authorities as excommunicated, who have declared the consecration to be a schismatic act. However, though these and some other individual members are accused by some of being in a state of schism[1] , the Holy See does not regard the SSPX itself as a schismatic church in its own right.Originally posted by Icemoon:Go there see see should be no problem. Just don't take their bread and wine.
but going to their mass seems like a taboo thing, if you consider even the Tridentine sanctioned by the bishop is not announced over official channel like the church bulletin.
The SSPX, for its part, considers itself faithful to the Catholic Church and all its infallible teachings, while rejecting what it sees as novelties in the teaching of the Second Vatican Council,[citation needed] and it has acknowledged Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Pope John Paul II, and Pope Benedict XVI as Popes.
The Tridentine Mass is always valid. It was decreed infallible in the Council of Trent and has granted priest the abiility to say it without fear....thats why some question the legality of the induct on Tridentine Mass.
My friend is in the SSPX...he will gladly welcome u to visit. -
Yeah, I wonder which forumner.Originally posted by Icemoon:I just attended this year's tridentine with a forummer .. lol
No parish has it in Singapore. You can try SSPX ..
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Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:
This is the first time I have seen SSPX sympathisers in this forum. Nevertheless you are welcome to stay.
Though the Holy See declared the 1988 consecrations a schismatic act, it does not view SSPX as constituting a schismatic Church, but has stated that some SSPX members are personally schismatic. Lefebvre and the four bishops have been regarded by the Church authorities as excommunicated, who have declared the consecration to be a schismatic act. However, though these and some other individual members are accused by some of being in a state of schism[1] , the [b]Holy See does not regard the SSPX itself as a schismatic church in its own right.
The SSPX, for its part, considers itself faithful to the Catholic Church and all its infallible teachings, while rejecting what it sees as novelties in the teaching of the Second Vatican Council,[citation needed] and it has acknowledged Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Pope John Paul II, and Pope Benedict XVI as Popes.
The Tridentine Mass is always valid. It was decreed infallible in the Council of Trent and has granted priest the abiility to say it without fear....thats why some question the legality of the induct on Tridentine Mass.
My friend is in the SSPX...he will gladly welcome u to visit.[/b]
Do not be mislead by the Society's propaganda. Stay away from their Masses. -
No im nto a sympthasier...i got that from the Holy See so its okay.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:This is the first time I have seen SSPX sympathisers in this forum. Nevertheless you are welcome to stay.
Do not be mislead by the Society's propaganda. Stay away from their Masses.
But thier Masses is the Tridentine Mass which is 1500yr old and decreed infallible in 15 century. -
This is the first time I have seen a true blue Roman Catholic discussing SSPX so comfortably.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:This is the first time I have seen SSPX sympathisers in this forum. Nevertheless you are welcome to stay.
Do not be mislead by the Society's propaganda. Stay away from their Masses.
schismatic act and schismatic church .. is this semantics?
I am of the opinion the society is harmless. Hey .. they even congratulated the Pope on his new appointment and wishing him good health. -
that forummer never sms you meh?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Yeah, I wonder which forumner. 
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Pros and cons lah.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Personally i feel the tridentine Mass is waay better. Can anyone tell me which parish ahs it.
Con is how come it is more than 1 hour?
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it can be about one hour too... well, at least the SSFX one shows that it can. hehe.
or maybe it's because there are that few people... and the place is certainly small... -
wait a minute .. u mean SSPX?Originally posted by Ariedartin:it can be about one hour too... well, at least the SSFX one shows that it can. hehe.
or maybe it's because there are that few people... and the place is certainly small... -
SSPX. oops.
I keep confusing the two. haha. -
Well they aint an schismatic Church according to the Holy See and the Holy See says Cathlics who attend their Masses are not in any sense in schism. Onli some of thier bishops are truly in schism. All of them accept Papal authrotiy so its okay and they comply with canon law haha. I did some research on it haha. Their formation is wholly legal but thier consecration of 4 bishop in 1988 was a schismatic act. Everyone except the 5 bishops are not in schism.
I feel they are harmless and i have no idea why was the Tridentine Mass thrown out? -
Ok, I think I get what you mean.
SSPX is schismatic act and Protestant is schismatic church.
But seriously I doubt you are allowed to partake in SSPX eucharist. Attending their Mass should be ok though it is still taboo. -
Thier ordination is valid (though illicit) and so is the Tridentine Mass. The Eucharist is valid. Any ordained priest can do Mass and perform the Eucharist celebration.Originally posted by Icemoon:Ok, I think I get what you mean.
SSPX is schismatic act and Protestant is schismatic church.
But seriously I doubt you are allowed to partake in SSPX eucharist. Attending their Mass should be ok though it is still taboo.
Protestant is not a schismatic church. Eastern Orthodox are haha.
Protestantism is well 'separated brethen' though in the Counter-Reformation and Council of Trent, generally Protestantism is as good as heresy.
The Emperor cut him off with an explosive, "NO!" To which Luther sharply replied that should he recant at this point he would surely open the door to even more tyranny and impiety.
Speaking for the Church, Eck, in Latin, now spoke:
"Your plea to be heard from Scripture is the one always made by heretics...How can you assume you are the only one who can understand the sense of Scripture? Would you put your judgement above that of so many famous men and claim that you know more than all of them?...to call into question the most holy orthodox, instituted by Christ the perfect Lawgiver...and which we are forbidden by the Pope and by the Emperor to discuss, least there be no end of debate? I ask you, Martin -- answer candidly and without distinctions -- do you or do you not repudiate your books and the errors which they contain? [48]
To which Luther replied in German:
"Since your Majesty and lordships desire a simple reply, I shall answer without distinctions....Unless I shall be convinced by the testimonies of the Scriptures or by clear reason (I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other) my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I neither can nor will make any retraction, since it is neither safe nor honourable to act against conscience. God help me. Amen."[49] -
Why you only quote Luther? The rest of the 36000 denominations leh?
Oh gosh .. Protestant is worse than schismatic church.
The way you say it .. partaking in SSPX Mass seems to be perfectly legitimate.
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1) Well without Luther doctrine of Sola Scriptura, there wont be a 36 000 protestant sect. Give credit to him la...Father of Protestantism ehOriginally posted by Icemoon:Why you only quote Luther? The rest of the 36000 denominations leh?
Oh gosh .. Protestant is worse than schismatic church.
The way you say it .. partaking in SSPX Mass seems to be perfectly legitimate.
2) To quote:
According to the 1983 code of canon law (promulgated by John Paul II), illicitly consecrating a bishop is not a schismatic act. That is most likely why the Holy See gave Lefebvre a canonical warning only about excommunication, not schism, before he consecrated the bishops. Lefebvre’s action seems to be one of disobedience, but not schism. Disobedience of a papal command does not give rise to schism; the person must actually deny the pope’s authority to be guilty of the crime of schism. I understand that Lefebvre – unlike a true schismatic - never denied Pope John Paul II’s authority as the Vicar of Christ. In fact, he believed his actions were actually serving the pope and the Church at large. Nevertheless, because the pope is the supreme legislator, we are obligated to conclude that Lefebvre’s consecration of the bishops was a schismatic act because the pope said so. Only another pope could overrule him.
The issue is not as clear with respect to the priests of the SSPX and the faithful who attend their Masses. Certainly, the SSPX priests are not automatically schismatic or excommunicated simply because of the actions of Lefebvre. Lefebrve's actions are not imputed to the other SSPX priests either canonically or theologically
The problem with John Paul II's motu proprio is that it never provided a definition of "formal adherence" to the schism. Presumably, if a person formally supports Lefebvre's disobedience and attends the SSPX chapel as a manifestation of that support (or a priest joins the SSPX to manifest such support), that person would presumably be "formally adhering" to Lefebrvre's schism. However, if a person merely attends Mass at an SSPX chapel out of love for the Traditional Latin Mass, including the piety it fosters and the theological clarity it provides, then such a person would not be in schism.
The Ecclesia Dei commission that John Paul II instituted has said the same. The commission declared that Catholics can fulfill their Sunday obligation by attending Masses offered by SSPX priests. If the priests of the SSPX were in schism, the Ecclesia Dei commission would presumably not allow Catholics to frequent their Masses, since they would be allowing Catholics to worship outside the Church. This indicates that SSPX priests are not in fact in schism (for example, Catholics could not fulfill their Sunday obligation by attending liturgies offered by the schismatic priests of the Eastern Orthodox churches). The same commission has said that, so long as Catholics attend SSPX chapels out of their devotion to the Traditional Latin Mass (and not because they want to separate themselves from the Roman Pontiff), such conduct is not sinful.
There is nothing wrong wif attending Tridentine Mass by SSPX priest. I am not SSPX btw. -
Ho seh la .. next outing - SSPX Mass.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:There is nothing wrong wif attending Tridentine Mass by SSPX priest. I am not SSPX btw.
Actually if there is nothing wrong, why the taboo? Hmm ..
Looks like SSPX mass is less harmful than Protestant service. -
1) Haha i think its alrite. Everyone shoudl experience the Tridentine mass. I have onli seen a 60min clip in youtube and enjoyed itOriginally posted by Icemoon:Ho seh la .. next outing - SSPX Mass.
Actually if there is nothing wrong, why the taboo? Hmm ..
Looks like SSPX mass is less harmful than Protestant service.
2) Obviously. A SSPX priest is valid, the tridentine mass is valid. The protestant service even if it is conducted by the Archbishop of Cantebury is not valid haha. A SSPX member is still catholic. -
I enjoyed the Tridentine Mass even though it was after a day at work. Even though I don't understand Latin. Hmm ..
Actually there is something I don't understand. What was the real reason why they changed the Tridentine Mass to the current one? If it is because of language, they could have just changed the language right?
Furthermore the Tridentine Mass is what it should have been - priest facing the same direction as the congregation, holy communion received kneeling and on the lips etc.