Why did Jesus choose Peter?
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But Paul's letters show very clearly that he is a leader to the earliest churches - corinth, epheseus, thesalonia etc.Originally posted by Ariedartin:food... earthly things, as a metaphor.
Paul was a writer, sure. but let's re-examine that, does it take mountains of written works to make a leader? after all, it is quite possible for a cardinal of doctrine to out-write the pope. the pope's core duty is to guide the people in his time, although leaving written works helps as well.
It is not about the writing per se, but that people recognize his writing to be on par with the Jewish Scripture. -
To the other Apostles la LOLOriginally posted by Icemoon:*sob sob* .. so touching.
But the question very silly leh:
15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
Jesus was comparing himself with the fishes? -
At one look, ur thinking makes a lot of sense.Originally posted by Icemoon:But Paul's letters show very clearly that he is a leader to the earliest churches - corinth, epheseus, thesalonia etc.
It is not about the writing per se, but that people recognize his writing to be on par with the Jewish Scripture.
But when u compare it with Mat 16:18 togetherw ith John 20:21....does it still make sense? -
I dun need to read anything you quote, because your "evidence" still need to be interpreted. Maybe your interpretation sala how?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:At one look, ur thinking makes a lot of sense.
But when u compare it with Mat 16:18 togetherw ith John 20:21....does it still make sense?
My "evidence" is historical facts and reality. -
Lol u need no intepretation. Christ gives the KEYS to Peter and told Peter to feed his sheeps. Even othodox hold this view.Originally posted by Icemoon:I dun need to read anything you quote, because your "evidence" still need to be interpreted. Maybe your interpretation sala how?
My "evidence" is historical facts and reality. -
he was the communicant. not the overall leader per se. sure, it's not about the content of the writing, but the fact that there was writing. it does not mean Peter's writing was not recognised, but rather, he did not write much in the first place to be scripture.Originally posted by Icemoon:But Paul's letters show very clearly that he is a leader to the earliest churches - corinth, epheseus, thesalonia etc.
It is not about the writing per se, but that people recognize his writing to be on par with the Jewish Scripture. -
if he was not overall leader, who is?Originally posted by Ariedartin:he was the communicant. not the overall leader per se. sure, it's not about the content of the writing, but the fact that there was writing. it does not mean Peter's writing was not recognised, but rather, he did not write much in the first place to be scripture.
It can't be that he was only the messanger or communicator. Unless he was doing it for God.Galatians 2
The following should be clear:
Paul Accepted by the Apostles
1Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. 3Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.
6As for those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance—those men added nothing to my message. 7On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles,[a] just as Peter had been to the Jews. 8For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9[b]James, Peter[c] and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. 10All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.
1. Paul had preached to the gentiles before the Jerusalem Council. Peter was not the one who assigned him the task. It was God. Paul went to the Council partly to tell them his work. Arguably Peter did not even know what was Paul really doing before the Council.
2. James was mentioned first before Peter. One counter-argument with Peter being the Pope.
3. Nobody added to Paul's message. So Paul couldn't be their communicator. He was a communicator for God.
4. Paul had quite low view of the peeps in the Council.
5. Paul was not working under any leadership.
6. Paul affirms that Peter's role was to preach to the Jews. -
Debatable.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Lol u need no intepretation. Christ gives the KEYS to Peter and told Peter to feed his sheeps. Even othodox hold this view.
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For one, feed the sheeps doesn't mean anything. All church leaders feed their sheeps - priests, pastors etc.
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Jesus commands Peter to "tend the sheep." The Greek word for "tend" (poimane) means to "rule." Jesus is thus commanding Peter to "rule" over the other apostles as their head. This is the same word that is used in Rev. 12:5 which describes that Jesus will "rule" all the nations with an iron rod. This is because Peter is the rock on which Jesus has built His Church.Originally posted by Icemoon:For one, feed the sheeps doesn't mean anything. All church leaders feed their sheeps - priests, pastors etc.
Peter has the supreme authority over the earthly Church, for Christ told him to feed His sheep, and specifically prayed that his faith may not fail, and that he should strengthen the other apostles (luke 22;31). Jesus did not grant these distinctions to any other apostle, and neither can we. -
Did you check a concordance before you reply?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Jesus commands Peter to "tend the sheep." The Greek word for "tend" (poimane) means to "rule." Jesus is thus commanding Peter to "rule" over the other apostles as their head. This is the same word that is used in Rev. 12:5 which describes that Jesus will "rule" all the nations with an iron rod. This is because Peter is the rock on which Jesus has built His Church.
Peter has the supreme authority over the earthly Church, for Christ told him to feed His sheep, and specifically prayed that his faith may not fail, and that he should strengthen the other apostles (luke 22;31). Jesus did not grant these distinctions to any other apostle, and neither can we.
I checked Strong's Concordance. The same word (poimane) is ALSO USED in (from the NRSV):
1Peter 5 - 1Now as an elder myself and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as one who shares in the glory to be revealed, I exhort the elders among you 2to tend the flock of God that is in your charge, exercising the oversight,* not under compulsion but willingly, as God would have you do it*—not for sordid gain but eagerly.
Acts 20 - 28Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God* that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.*
As shown, poimane has more than one meaning. I think the poimane in John is more related to the ones in 1Peter and Acts, because they are talking about church leaders.poimaino (Strong's 4165) occurs 11 times in 11 verses:
Mat 2:6 And 2532 thou 4771 Bethlehem 965, [in] the land 1093 of Juda 2448, art 1488 not 3760 the least 1646 among 1722 the princes 2232 of Juda 2448: for 1063 out of 1537 thee 4675 shall come 1831 a Governor 2233 , that 3748 shall rule 4165 my 3450 people 2992 Israel 2474.
Luk 17:7 But 1161 which 5101 of 1537 you 5216, having 2192 a servant 1401 plowing 722 or 2228 feeding cattle 4165 , will say 2046 unto him 3739 by and by 2112, when he is come 1525 from 1537 the field 68, Go 3928 and sit down to meat 377 ?
Jhn 21:16 He saith 3004 to him 846 again 3825 the second time 1208, Simon 4613, [son] of Jonas 2495, lovest thou 25 me 3165? He saith 3004 unto him 846, Yea 3483, Lord 2962; thou 4771 knowest 1492 that 3754 I love 5368 thee 4571. He saith 3004 unto him 846, Feed 4165 my 3450 sheep 4263.
Act 20:28 Take heed 4337 therefore 3767 unto yourselves 1438, and 2532 to all 3956 the flock 4168, over 1722 the which 3739 the Holy 40 Ghost 4151 hath made 5087 you 5209 overseers 1985, to feed 4165 the church 1577 of God 2316, which 3739 he hath purchased 4046 with 1223 his own 2398 blood 129.
1Cr 9:7 Who 5101 goeth a warfare 4754 any time at 4218 his own 2398 charges 3800? who 5101 planteth 5452 a vineyard 290, and 2532 eateth 2068 not 3756 of 1537 the fruit 2590 thereof 846? or 2228 who 5101 feedeth 4165 a flock 4167, and 2532 eateth 2068 not 3756 of 1537 the milk 1051 of the flock 4167?
1Pe 5:2 Feed 4165 the flock 4168 of God 2316 which is among 1722 you 5213, taking the oversight 1983 [thereof], not 3361 by constraint 317, but 235 willingly 1596; not 3366 for filthy lucre 147, but 235 of a ready mind 4290;
Jud 1:12 These 3778 are 1526 spots 4694 in 1722 your 5216 feasts of charity 26, when they feast 4910 with you 5213, feeding 4165 themselves 1438 without fear 870: clouds 3507 [they are] without water 504, carried about 4064 of 5259 winds 417; trees 1186 whose fruit withereth 5352, without fruit 175, twice 1364 dead 599 , plucked up by the roots 1610 ;
Rev 2:27 And 2532 he shall rule 4165 them 846 with 1722 a rod 4464 of iron 4603; as 5613 the vessels 4632 of a potter 2764 shall they be broken to shivers 4937 : even 2504 0 as 5613 I 2504 received 2983 of 3844 my 3450 Father 3962.
Rev 7:17 For 3754 the Lamb 721 which 3588 is in the midst 303 3319 of the throne 2362 shall feed 4165 them 846, and 2532 shall lead 3594 them 846 unto 1909 living 2198 fountains 4077 of waters 5204: and 2532 God 2316 shall wipe away 1813 all 3956 tears 1144 from 575 their 846 eyes 3788.
Rev 12:5 And 2532 she brought forth 5088 a man 730 child 5207, who 3739 was 3195 to rule 4165 all 3956 nations 1484 with 1722 a rod 4464 of iron 4603: and 2532 her 846 child 5043 was caught up 726 unto 4314 God 2316, and 2532 [to] his 846 throne 2362.
Rev 19:15 And 2532 out of 1537 his 846 mouth 4750 goeth 1607 a sharp 3691 sword 4501, that 2443 with 1722 it 846 he should smite 3960 the nations 1484: and 2532 he 846 shall rule 4165 them 846 with 1722 a rod 4464 of iron 4603: and 2532 he 846 treadeth 3961 the winepress 3025 3631 of the fierceness 2372 and 2532 wrath 3709 of Almighty 3841 God 2316.