Why did Jesus choose Peter?
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3. Erm .. why would anyone contest to it? Paul was on the right track all along, what he needed was the Jerusalem Council to make a formal statement on it. Who do you think are the ones who will contest to it? (In all faireness, it is possible people contested to it but it wasn't recorded down)Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:3) He gave the idea and no one contested to it.
Why should he be a bishop there????
I never say he must be bishop there. But why was James the bishop instead of Peter? If they happened to set up shop in Rome and James was still the bishop, the same question can be asked - why was James the bishop and not Peter? -
Notice when Paul and the others were speaking, there was a DEBATE. But when Peter spoke, there was nothing but affirmation....why? Because had the authority to teach doctrines. Every Apostle (except Paul) heard Christ commands to him abt him recieving the powers of binding and loosing etc etc.Originally posted by Icemoon:3. Erm .. why would anyone contest to it? Paul was on the right track all along, what he needed was the Jerusalem Council to make a formal statement on it. Who do you think are the ones who will contest to it? (In all faireness, it is possible people contested to it but it wasn't recorded down)
I never say he must be bishop there. But why was James the bishop instead of Peter? If they happened to set up shop in Rome and James was still the bishop, the same question can be asked - why was James the bishop and not Peter?
It was Peter who settled the doctrinal issue on circumcision at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. When Peter settled the matter, "the whole assembly kept silent." The other bishops who spoke after Peter relayed how Peter settled the matter, and spoke in union with him, just like bishops do today. Paul obeyed PeterÂ’s decision without question
In Galatians 1:18-19, it says Paul went to visit Peter in Jerusalem and examine him for 15 days. Even though James was the bishop of Jerusalem, Paul chooses to examine Peter, not James. Why? Because Peter was the head of the Church. -
WHERE?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Notice when Paul and the others were speaking, there was a DEBATE.6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon[a] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" 'After this I will return
and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
18that have been known for ages.[c]
19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." -
Of course Peter need to settle .. it is his own turf that's having the problem.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:It was Peter who settled the doctrinal issue on circumcision at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. When Peter settled the matter, "the whole assembly kept silent." The other bishops who spoke after Peter relayed how Peter settled the matter, and spoke in union with him, just like bishops do today. Paul obeyed PeterÂ’s decision without question
As to why the assembly kept silent .. the text is not conclusive. Furthermore we have the quite reputable NIV bible suggesting strongly that the reason was because of Paul.
Haha .. Paul obeyed Peter's decision? LOL .. that was Paul's intention all along! Peter just made a formal statement that's all. -
wah... my post kena dao-ed...
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Did i see u in youtube making a comment in the Traditional Mass webbie?Originally posted by Ariedartin:wah... my post kena dao-ed... -
of all my posts to take notice...
yes, I did. furious debate going on there, huh? -
NO la haha. The name Ariedartin struck a cord in my head haha. Damn my memory. I shall read ur post.Originally posted by Ariedartin:of all my posts to take notice...
yes, I did. furious debate going on there, huh? -
Agreed. Christ named Peter as rock because he alone and certainly not Paul who was busy killing god-knows-who, for He alone knew Christ identity.Originally posted by Ariedartin:I don't think Paul's knowledge was at all what was needed. it was Peter's love for Jesus that made him truly the leader of the apostles, though of course he was not necessarily superior to the other apostles in all respects.
also, remember the parable of the prodigal son?
Remember Christ told Peter (not Paul) to feed his sheeps. Christ told Peter (not paul) to strengthen his Brethen apostles. Christ paid Peter half shekel tax etc etc. Christ and Peter had a unique relationship, King of Kings and his Prime Minister ( to follow davidic kingdoms)
Prodigal son parable strenghtens the fact that God allows the weak men to rise and rule. Peter is no difference...he repented.
Mind u, all other Apostles ran away. At least Peter followed him and denied him thrice. The rest fled and ended up in some alley. -
and then there was the time when Peter drew his sword and cut the ear of the servant because Peter refused to allow the jews to take Jesus away. this shows the depth of his love, as you have to remember that he was willing to go that far furthermore since he did not know it wrong until Jesus talked to him. the perfect track record was not necessary. God will take everyone, even those who make mistakes, but they must be unafraid to profess their love to the extents that God allows.
I hope I'm right in what I've just said...
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And he was crucified upsode down as he refused to die the same way as Christ.Originally posted by Ariedartin:and then there was the time when Peter drew his sword and cut the ear of the servant because Peter refused to allow the jews to take Jesus away. this shows the depth of his love, as you have to remember that he was willing to go that far furthermore since he did not know it wrong until Jesus talked to him. the perfect track record was not necessary. God will take everyone, even those who make mistakes, but they must be unafraid to profess their love to the extents that God allows.
I hope I'm right in what I've just said...
Paul repented on SEEING christ
Peter LOVED christ and had the FAITH -
Paul's faith is greater 'cos according to Jesus,
Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believed.
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Peter cut off people's ear?
I thought Jesus say those live by the sword will die by the sword?
It is no wonder Peter's murderous temper somehow got into the Crusaders. -
Know identity so what? Peter did not know Christ's true mission on Earth. Notice Jesus scolded him Satan for trying to stop him.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Agreed. Christ named Peter as rock because he alone and certainly not Paul who was busy killing god-knows-who, for He alone knew Christ identity.
Mind u, all other Apostles ran away. At least Peter followed him and denied him thrice. The rest fled and ended up in some alley.
Apostles ran away doesn't mean anything. Also you dunno what exactly they doing during their absence.
Maybe they were finding a burial plot for Jesus, link up with Joseph of Arimathea or something?
But if you follow Jesus and still deny him, then it shows your cowardice straightaway. If you scare, don't follow la. Be a man. -
Remember Peter's mission of preaching to the circumcised was a colossal failure.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Remember Christ told Peter (not Paul) to feed his sheeps. Christ told Peter (not paul) to strengthen his Brethen apostles.
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remember Peter repented his ways and returned to profess his love thrice to balance the threefold denial. parable of the prodigal son...
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Who have the keys to the kingdom of heaven? Who inherited Elkiam position?
Btw paul beleived because he heard Christ from the heavens unlike Peter who saw Christ only in flesh. -
And then he was ordered to feed Christ sheeps and lambs and to strenghten his brethen....did Paul get that?Originally posted by Ariedartin:remember Peter repented his ways and returned to profess his love thrice to balance the threefold denial. parable of the prodigal son...
Peter may suck in evangelising but he rocks in leadership. -
no evidence of his 'exceptional' leadership.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Peter may suck in evangelising but he rocks in leadership.
he didn't even organize an 'outing' to witness the crucification. -
About feeding sheeps and lambs .. you insert the Catholic interpretation and treat it as the Word.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:And then he was ordered to feed Christ sheeps and lambs and to strenghten his brethen....did Paul get that?
Erm .. from evidence .. we know Paul wrote more epistles and pastoral letters than Peter and they were treated as Scripture by the early church.
Peter leh? What did he leave to the descendants? Only his papal office which is a title. -
If a leader can get influenced so easily (remember those men from James?), we wonder what kind of leader is he?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Peter may suck in evangelising but he rocks in leadership.
Those men weren't even apostles. So Peter was influenced by people of lower hierarchy than the apostles.
If Paul didn't bring the matter up to the Jerusalem Council, will Peter make his famous proclamation? -
when did he profess his love thrice?Originally posted by Ariedartin:remember Peter repented his ways and returned to profess his love thrice to balance the threefold denial. parable of the prodigal son... -
John 21:15
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8 9 10 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
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He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."
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He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
And the last verse caught my attention...seems un-sola scriptura
It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, 14 and we know that his testimony is true.
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There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written -
*sob sob* .. so touching.
But the question very silly leh:
15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
Jesus was comparing himself with the fishes? -
food... earthly things, as a metaphor.
Paul was a writer, sure. but let's re-examine that, does it take mountains of written works to make a leader? after all, it is quite possible for a cardinal of doctrine to out-write the pope. the pope's core duty is to guide the people in his time, although leaving written works helps as well.