The Suffering Church - Christian persecution
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I hope to post relevant items on the topic of Christian persecution whenever I come across any such news.
Here is the first item, from the current Middle East conflict.
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DEBKAfileÂ’s military sources report that Palestinian Jihad Islami, Ahmed JibrilÂ’s PFLP-General Command and Palestinian crime gangs based in S. LebanonÂ’s Burj Shimali east of Tyre are leading the rocket offensive against Nahariya and coastal Galilee. Early Wednesday, an Israeli air raid struck a village house in this sector east of Tyre, causing 10 deaths, according to Lebanese officials.
DEBKAfile further discloses that the rocket fire against the eastern town of Safed emanates from the Maronite Christian village of Rumeish, while the Galilee panhandle villages and the town of Kiryat Shemona are being attacked from the Christian villages of Marjayoun and Kleia in central-south Lebanon. One difficulty in halting HizballahÂ’s rocket barrage in the east has been IsraelÂ’s reluctance to attack Christian targets, except for pinpointing launch teams. Israeli negotiators are in contact with the village heads on terms for their evacuation so that Hizballah sites can be smashed.
Hizballah is using Lebanese Christians as human shields for its attacks and their towns and villages as supply centers to pump ordnance to the launch teams in forward positions. The Israeli air force therefore attacked Hizballah targets sheltering near the Maronite town of Zahleh Tuesday and is taking out every container truck heading west from the Beqaa Valley on the Syrian border. Eighteen such trucks were blown up Tuesday. -
The Church being persecuted in formerly Christian countries is a very sad and sorry state of affairs.
Isaiah 5:20 comes to mind:
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who change darkness into light, and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!"
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VATICAN TARGETED BY EUROPE MORE THAN CUBA OR CHINA FOR “VIOLATIONS” OF HUMAN RIGHTS -
Pray for our brothers who are being persecuted, especially in the Middle East and China.
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Two articles on how American courts are persecuting Christians:
U.S. HOUSE VOTES TO PROTECT “GOD” FROM COURTS
HOUSE BILL COULD SAVE EMBATTLED SAN DIEGO CROSS
regards,
obiterdicta -
In 'the land of the free', you ain't free if you are Catholic:
CENSOR THREATENS 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF MISSOURI CATHOLIC GROUP -
Here's another one. Go to jail for thanking Jesus:
Judge Puts Man Behind Bars Over 'Thank You, Jesus' -
America, land of the free.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Here's another one. Go to jail for thanking Jesus:
Judge Puts Man Behind Bars Over 'Thank You, Jesus' -
This is a conundrum actually, freedom of religious worship vs affirmative action. Its not right to stand one side and say its persecution of a religion, assuming now the pastor is speaking againts homosexuality, laying out groundwork in the church for discrimination againts homosexuals, a clear violation of human rights.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:
The French example is hilarious. How come no one speak up for the Muslims, who are banned from wearing tudung, when Catholic nuns are allowed to wear their habits as part of 'professional clothing'?
A clear issue of separation of church from state, and I would be disappointed, not because they might not remove it, but that if the Christians would assume the title God to mean a Christian God, effectively making US a Christian country. It would then contravene what the Founding Fathers wanted, and instead of seeing the issue as against Christians, it would then turn around against other religions, especially those with no God in them.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Two articles on how American courts are persecuting Christians:
U.S. HOUSE VOTES TO PROTECT “GOD” FROM COURTS
HOUSE BILL COULD SAVE EMBATTLED SAN DIEGO CROSS
regards,
obiterdicta
What persecution? One group accusing the other guy of making threats, and the other guy accused the first group of denying their rights of speech.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:In 'the land of the free', you ain't free if you are Catholic:
CENSOR THREATENS 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF MISSOURI CATHOLIC GROUP
All in all, I find this the most convincing case of persecution. Its a clear expression of his faith which has no implication on any matter, and he got jailed. Another example of clear cut persecution is that of a group of Filipinos expatriates who were caught practising their faith in Saudi Arabia. Freedom of religious worship is not allowed in SA, where Islam is the only recognised religion. Any expression or other forms of practise will result in deportation or even execution. The Reader Digest's article I read detailed how one guy managed to get deported, while his relative got executed at the end. Sad, but true.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Here's another one. Go to jail for thanking Jesus:
Judge Puts Man Behind Bars Over 'Thank You, Jesus'
Anyway, I think we got to discern between real persecution and cases where its just two groups going for each other's throats. Otherwise, anyone could just lump it all under 'violation of human rights' and we could never help those who are really in need. -
Last time a nonChristian friend told me this story:
A Christian ordered food at the hawker stall. The food was served, he paid and said grace to thank God for the food. Immediately, the hawker took the food away and said "Now I see who you can thank!"
I said to my friend "So mean, this hawker"
But my friend, being anti Christian, disagreed with me "It was the hawker who cooked the food!"
Then I said "But the Christian already paid the money for the food. He has, in this way, thanked the hawker. What right does the hawker have doing stupid thing like this?"
My friend "...." -
wah firsttime see Ah Lau post long long in this forum. I thought I will only see that in EHOriginally posted by laurence82:All in all, I find this the most convincing case of persecution. Its a clear expression of his faith which has no implication on any matter, and he got jailed. Another example of clear cut persecution is that of a group of Filipinos expatriates who were caught practising their faith in Saudi Arabia. Freedom of religious worship is not allowed in SA, where Islam is the only recognised religion. Any expression or other forms of practise will result in deportation or even execution. The Reader Digest's article I read detailed how one guy managed to get deported, while his relative got executed at the end. Sad, but true.
Anyway, I think we got to discern between real persecution and cases where its just two groups going for each other's throats. Otherwise, anyone could just lump it all under 'violation of human rights' and we could never help those who are really in need. -
Real story?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Last time a nonChristian friend told me this story:
A Christian ordered food at the hawker stall. The food was served, he paid and said grace to thank God for the food. Immediately, the hawker took the food away and said "Now I see who you can thank!"
I said to my friend "So mean, this hawker"
But my friend, being anti Christian, disagreed with me "It was the hawker who cooked the food!"
Then I said "But the Christian already paid the money for the food. He has, in this way, thanked the hawker. What right does the hawker have doing stupid thing like this?"
My friend "...."
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complain to CASE!Originally posted by Honeybunz:Last time a nonChristian friend told me this story:
A Christian ordered food at the hawker stall. The food was served, he paid and said grace to thank God for the food. Immediately, the hawker took the food away and said "Now I see who you can thank!"
I said to my friend "So mean, this hawker"
But my friend, being anti Christian, disagreed with me "It was the hawker who cooked the food!"
Then I said "But the Christian already paid the money for the food. He has, in this way, thanked the hawker. What right does the hawker have doing stupid thing like this?"
My friend "...." -
muz forgive lahOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:complain to CASE!
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ya lor. My friend was still so happy that the hawker did that to the Christian. Tamade!Originally posted by laurence82:Real story? -
i dont mind slapping your friend. That behaviour is totally unjustified and uncalled for.Originally posted by Honeybunz:ya lor. My friend was still so happy that the hawker did that to the Christian. Tamade! -
why are so many ple against christians?
are we that detestable??
at work, my colleagues like to tease my religious.
so sad to see them doing that... -
Even if the pastor is speaking against homosexuality, this is still part of freedom of religion. Why would that be a violation of human rights? What's more, you fail to recognise the position of the Church correctly. It teaches that homosexual acts are immoral, as clearly spelt out in the Bible. It does not teach that people who engage in such acts should be accorded less respect.Originally posted by laurence82:This is a conundrum actually, freedom of religious worship vs affirmative action. Its not right to stand one side and say its persecution of a religion, assuming now the pastor is speaking againts homosexuality, laying out groundwork in the church for discrimination againts homosexuals, a clear violation of human rights.
The French example is hilarious. How come no one speak up for the Muslims, who are banned from wearing tudung, when Catholic nuns are allowed to wear their habits as part of 'professional clothing'?
As for the French example, you are comparing apples and oranges. The ban, which I disagree with, applies to school and work, where the French state wishes, unreasonably, to promote a militant form of secularism. The spheres of coverage does not overlap with those in which Catholic nuns typically operate. Hence, this is a false argument.
regards,
obiterdicta -
This is a case of bigotry getting the better of common sense and rationality.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Last time a nonChristian friend told me this story:
A Christian ordered food at the hawker stall. The food was served, he paid and said grace to thank God for the food. Immediately, the hawker took the food away and said "Now I see who you can thank!"
I said to my friend "So mean, this hawker"
But my friend, being anti Christian, disagreed with me "It was the hawker who cooked the food!"
Then I said "But the Christian already paid the money for the food. He has, in this way, thanked the hawker. What right does the hawker have doing stupid thing like this?"
My friend "...."
Obviously your friend forgot that there exists this little inconvenient thing called 'contract law'.
Your victimised friend does not even have to thank the hawker. After all, he paid good money for the food.
obiterdicta -
Thats why I said its a conundrum. Its an issue where both sides are violating each other's human rights, therefore its not a simple case of persecution. Gee, if I were a Catholic, I would be more concerned with China's persecution of Catholics instead, where its a clear case of the government using overwhelming force to clamp down on a a group of people who meant no harm.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Even if the pastor is speaking against homosexuality, this is still part of freedom of religion. Why would that be a violation of human rights? What's more, you fail to recognise the position of the Church correctly. It teaches that homosexual acts are immoral, as clearly spelt out in the Bible. It does not teach that people who engage in such acts should be accorded less respect.
As for the French example, you are comparing apples and oranges. The ban, which I disagree with, applies to school and work, where the French state wishes, unreasonably, to promote a militant form of secularism. The spheres of coverage does not overlap with those in which Catholic nuns typically operate. Hence, this is a false argument.
regards,
obiterdicta
Your second argument is moot. You said it applied to work for Muslims, so hence where is the justification for nuns to wear their habits as part of 'professional clothing'? I dont deny French is enforcing a militant form of secularism, but the application is rather uneven. If I were to be more equitable, I would have turn to other similar religious symbols, including banning Christians from publicly wearing crucifixes. Of course, that is assuming I am one of those muddle headed French gabrament official. -
Err.. I think they banned people from wearing crucifixes also?Originally posted by laurence82:Your second argument is moot. You said it applied to work for Muslims, so hence where is the justification for nuns to wear their habits as part of 'professional clothing'? I dont deny French is enforcing a militant form of secularism, but the application is rather uneven. If I were to be more equitable, I would have turn to other similar religious symbols, including banning Christians from publicly wearing crucifixes. Of course, that is assuming I am one of those muddle headed French gabrament official.
And the Sikh kirpan (sic?) also.... -
They did?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Err.. I think they banned people from wearing crucifixes also?
And the Sikh kirpan (sic?) also....
Kirpan yah, crucifixes?
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If I remember correctly..Originally posted by laurence82:They did?
Kirpan yah, crucifixes? -
If I do not remember wrongly, the ban is on the display/wearing of ALL religious items in public schools/public sector work place. Its an across the board ban for all.
but, if you work in private sector/study in private schools... think the ban is not really enforced. -
This means its persecution nationwide!Originally posted by vince69:If I do not remember wrongly, the ban is on the display/wearing of ALL religious items in public schools/public sector work place. Its an across the board ban for all.
but, if you work in private sector/study in private schools... think the ban is not really enforced.
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not really... private practice of religion are still allowed...Originally posted by laurence82:This means its persecution nationwide!