Cardinal: Catholics who leave the Church are deserters
-
wah so militant!Originally posted by SingaporeMacross: -
Not right though
Its basically name calling
Besides, the usual punishments for Army deserters range from jail to execution.
Surely the Catholic Church wouldnt want to put themselves in the same light as the institution they always fight against, an institution of war. -
It's no big secret that the Church on Earth calls itself the Ecclesia Militans, or Church Militant, as we are continuously battling towards heaven. The Church in Heaven is called the Ecclesia Triumphans, or Church Triumphant, for they have successful won the battle of life.Originally posted by laoda99:wah so militant! -
Sounds like Salvation Army
-
Please see this:Originally posted by laurence82:Not right though
Its basically name calling
Besides, the usual punishments for Army deserters range from jail to execution.
Surely the Catholic Church wouldnt want to put themselves in the same light as the institution they always fight against, an institution of war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_militant_and_church_triumphant
We do see ourselves in military terms, for we are in a struggle against the 'powers and principalities' of this world:
"Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens." Eph 6:11-12
regards,
obiterdicta -
army in spirit, not military army
-
No, we do not advocate fighting with military armaments or ordnance.Originally posted by laurence82:Not right though
Its basically name calling
Besides, the usual punishments for Army deserters range from jail to execution.
Surely the Catholic Church wouldnt want to put themselves in the same light as the institution they always fight against, an institution of war.
But surely the Church has the right to take into hand Her errant children? -
But in a conflict that has far more serious consequences than most military ones.Originally posted by laurence82:army in spirit, not military army -
I am with u in this oneOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:Please see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_militant_and_church_triumphant
We do see ourselves in military terms, for we are in a struggle against the 'powers and principalities' of this world:
"Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens." Eph 6:11-12
regards,
obiterdicta -
Since they have already left the church, the church still has power over them?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:No, we do not advocate fighting with military armaments or ordnance.
But surely the Church has the right to take into hand Her errant children? -
yes, but deserters are most often used for people from organised militiaOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:But in a conflict that has far more serious consequences than most military ones. -
for u maybe. maybe u think its right to kill people(burn them at stake) as long as u're "saving" their soulOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:But in a conflict that has far more serious consequences than most military ones.
-
protestants are considered "deserters"?Originally posted by laoda99:I am with u in this one -
Salvation Army is a peaceful corps.....more like providing social welfare one.....Originally posted by laurence82:Sounds like Salvation Army -
more like AOGOriginally posted by laurence82:Sounds like Salvation Army -
FROM THE ARTICLE:
"If you are confirmed in the Catholic Church and then decide to change and go to another church, you are a deserter," Wamala said.
"We hear of adults who have deserted the church. And why is a deserter so dangerous? You don't know why he went, where he has gone and what he is planning to do next.
************************************************************
Firstly, God gave all of us a freedom to choose. If the person decides to leave for whatever reasons, right or wrong in the eyes of the church, just let him leave, why label him. furthermore, in the article, he is speaking in the context of leaving from the catholic church to another church. What is this "another church" he is toking about?
Secondly, like he said "You don't know why he went, where he has gone and what he is planning to do next." SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW, how then can you lable him as dangerous and a deserter? -
-deleted-
-
No, that's not what we mean by the struggle. This struggle is fought, as far as we are concerned, on our knees in prayer. Weak as we all are, it is fought within ourselves as well, as an ongoing conversion effort for us to overcome our sinful nature, with God's grace. And it is fought in the hope that as we allow Christ to act more and more freely within our own souls, we will be able to help manifest the love of Christ to the whole world.Originally posted by HENG@:for u maybe. maybe u think its right to kill people(burn them at stake) as long as u're "saving" their soul
To quote Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR, a famous television preacher, the spiritual life is the life of Christ within us.
To reiterate earlier points, it is about struggles with powers and principalities of the spiritual realm. Killing people is not going to do it.
Of course, if one is an atheist, then this is meaningless, since there is no belief in the existence of anything other than the material world.
regards,
obiterdicta -
Yes, God gave us free choice. However, most of us want our free choices without the consequences, which is of course absurd.Originally posted by gasband:Firstly, God gave all of us a freedom to choose. If the person decides to leave for whatever reasons, right or wrong in the eyes of the church, just let him leave, why label him. furthermore, in the article, he is speaking in the context of leaving from the catholic church to another church. What is this "another church" he is toking about?
Secondly, like he said "You don't know why he went, where he has gone and what he is planning to do next." SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW, how then can you lable him as dangerous and a deserter?
The Church has lost a lot of people. However, we do not 'just let him leave'. We always work in the hope that they will come back. We will pray, we will persuade (if the opportunity arises).
I'm not sure if you have 'lost' loved ones who departed from the faith. I know, for instancce, that many parents have 'lost' their children. If you talk to them, the sense of pain and loss is palpable. Are they restricting their children's freedom? Not at all, but they grieve.
As for me, I have 'lost' a very dear loved one who left the Church as well.
regards,
obiterdicta -
And if you are insinuating that Catholics burn people at the stake, hey, look at the Salem Witch Trials.Originally posted by HENG@:for u maybe. maybe u think its right to kill people(burn them at stake) as long as u're "saving" their soul
regards,
obiterdicta -
Ok, back to the more worldly pursuits of work and the stock market.
-
where did ur loved one go?Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Yes, God gave us free choice. However, most of us want our free choices without the consequences, which is of course absurd.
The Church has lost a lot of people. However, we do not 'just let him leave'. We always work in the hope that they will come back. We will pray, we will persuade (if the opportunity arises).
I'm not sure if you have 'lost' loved ones who departed from the faith. I know, for instancce, that many parents have 'lost' their children. If you talk to them, the sense of pain and loss is palpable. Are they restricting their children's freedom? Not at all, but they grieve.
As for me, I have 'lost' a very dear loved one who left the Church as well.
regards,
obiterdicta -
I am toking about the context in which he spoke in the article.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Yes, God gave us free choice. However, most of us want our free choices without the consequences, which is of course absurd.
The Church has lost a lot of people. However, we do not 'just let him leave'. We always work in the hope that they will come back. We will pray, we will persuade (if the opportunity arises).
I'm not sure if you have 'lost' loved ones who departed from the faith. I know, for instancce, that many parents have 'lost' their children. If you talk to them, the sense of pain and loss is palpable. Are they restricting their children's freedom? Not at all, but they grieve.
As for me, I have 'lost' a very dear loved one who left the Church as well.
regards,
obiterdicta
Of cos if a fren or someone leaves the church for very bad reasons like he doesnt want to believe in God anymore or he just doesnt care anymore, then of cos we should be concerned. If the person leaves for another church, why should we label him a deserter? I have frens who leave for another church and have a fren who left a protestant church for a catholic church. Should I label him deserter too? I dun think so.
But in the article, the person dun even know why a person is leaving and label him deserter liao....It seems to me he dun even care why a person leaves the church, as long u leave the church, u are bad.
And the last thing you should do if you wanna get the person back is to label a name on a person just like what the article suggests. -
guess whose book they took a page from? But then who started the practice and who used it more?Originally posted by ObiterDicta:And if you are insinuating that Catholics burn people at the stake, hey, look at the Salem Witch Trials.
regards,
obiterdicta
Do u want me to wave the Albigensian Crusades in yr faces again?