If you are married in overseas, they can trace it....
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http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=197123
This was very briefly mentioned in the other thread in my forum.
But I thought it's more appropriate to elaborate here on this issue:
If Nicole Kidman was married in a Catholic Church, can she get married again in another Catholic Church? -
Who would like to start the ball rolling?
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i've always thought people could cheat.. however, isn't there a giant database or something like that?
especially within the church? -
Nope... cannot cheat. Definitely, not within the Catholic Church...hehehe.Originally posted by the Bear:i've always thought people could cheat.. however, isn't there a giant database or something like that?
especially within the church?
Catholic Church always have proper control one, you know. hehehe.
Can't elaborate further at the moment... cuz I am going off liao. Will continue tonight...hehehe -
Ok... can stay a bit longer. So can explain a little....
Eg...
You were baptised in Holy Cross Church in Singapore.
One day, you decide to get married in St Patrick's Church in Sydney, the church will require you to book with them six months in advance. Reason being, they need time to trace your record to be sure that you are not married (if you were married before, your marriage has to be annulled by the Church).
The priest from Sydney church will write to Singapore archdiocese who will in turn write to Holy Cross Church for reference. The church where you were baptised will keep all your records : Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage etc and even Annulment.
That is why you must produce your baptism certificate when you book the church. If you misplace it, you must go to back to your original parish and ask for a certified true copy.
After your wedding, the priest will send the record back to your parish in Singapore for their keeping.
See! In the Catholic church, you cannot cheat one...hehehe -
There are other ways to 'cheat'. Like moving to a diocese where the tribunal is lenient in granting annulments. But that's another story, in the area of jurisprudence.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Ok... can stay a bit longer. So can explain a little....
Eg...
You were baptised in Holy Cross Church in Singapore.
One day, you decide to get married in St Patrick's Church in Sydney, the church will require you to book with them six months in advance. Reason being, they need time to trace your record to be sure that you are not married (if you were married before, your marriage has to be annulled by the Church).
The priest from Sydney church will write to Singapore archdiocese who will in turn write to Holy Cross Church for reference. The church where you were baptised will keep all your records : Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage etc and even Annulment.
That is why you must produce your baptism certificate when you book the church. If you misplace it, you must go to back to your original parish and ask for a certified true copy.
After your wedding, the priest will send the record back to your parish in Singapore for their keeping.
See! In the Catholic church, you cannot cheat one...hehehe
obiterdicta -
No, there is no database.Originally posted by the Bear:i've always thought people could cheat.. however, isn't there a giant database or something like that?
especially within the church?
From experience, I find that a lot of Singaporeans tend to think that there is a database somewhere keeping all our data. I would ascribe this to our so used to being in a centralised system of government and administration.
I also find it difficult to explain the concept of subsidiarity and decentralised administrative powers to Singaporeans.
obiterdicta -
what to do? i work for an organisation with a HUMUNGOUS database
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Haha, I used to work for one too.Originally posted by the Bear:what to do? i work for an organisation with a HUMUNGOUS database -
Actually, I think the Church's system is fairly robust.
If we were to completely run out of oil and natural gas tomorrow and cannot generate electricity, the administrative processes of the Church can continue to function.
Perhaps the benefits of surviving the Middle Ages, the black death and other problems through the centuries. -
AgreeOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:Actually, I think the Church's system is fairly robust.
If we were to completely run out of oil and natural gas tomorrow and cannot generate electricity, the administrative processes of the Church can continue to function.
Perhaps the benefits of surviving the Middle Ages, the black death and other problems through the centuries.
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Isn't annulment granted by the Vatican?Originally posted by ObiterDicta:There are other ways to 'cheat'. Like moving to a diocese where the tribunal is lenient in granting annulments. But that's another story, in the area of jurisprudence.
obiterdicta
I heard only... dunno how true. But I do know it can take up to 10 - 15 years. -
No, it is granted by the diocesan marriage tribunal. The decision is then sent to a neighbouring diocese for review by its tribunal. The annulment is granted once there are 2 'ok' decisions.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Isn't annulment granted by the Vatican?
I heard only... dunno how true. But I do know it can take up to 10 - 15 years.
An appeal can be made to the Roman Rota by either persons who are party to the petition.
I've not heard of the process taking such a long time either.
obiterdicta -
I see I see...hehehOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:No, it is granted by the diocesan marriage tribunal. The decision is then sent to a neighbouring diocese for review by its tribunal. The annulment is granted once there are 2 'ok' decisions.
An appeal can be made to the Roman Rota by either persons who are party to the petition.
I've not heard of the process taking such a long time either.
obiterdicta -
was her marriage to tom cruise valid?
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Based on media reports, she had married Cruise in the Church of Scientology. If that were indeed the case, then the marriage would appear to be invalid.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:was her marriage to tom cruise valid? -
tsk tsk.. marrying outside the church...Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Based on media reports, she had married Cruise in the Church of Scientology. If that were indeed the case, then the marriage would appear to be invalid. -
On a separate note, there are Catholics who have been so badly catechised that they don't even know that they have to be sacramentally married in order to have a valid marriage.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:tsk tsk.. marrying outside the church... -
Catechism has always been bad.... what to do?Originally posted by ObiterDicta:On a separate note, there are Catholics who have been so badly catechised that they don't even know that they have to be sacramentally married in order to have a valid marriage.
Eh, but those who marry non-Catholics in the Church are considered as valid or not? -
yes, valid.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Catechism has always been bad.... what to do?
Eh, but those who marry non-Catholics in the Church are considered as valid or not? -
It depends.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Catechism has always been bad.... what to do?
Eh, but those who marry non-Catholics in the Church are considered as valid or not?
Normally, it will be valid, since dispensation from the bishop is required for the Catholic party to marry a non-Catholic person.
However, there are occasions when the non-Catholic party purported enters into the marriage by pretending to agree to the conditions for the marriage. A common issue is the raising of kids as Catholics. The non-Catholic party is required to agree to have the kids baptised and raised Catholics, but sometimes they say 'ok' to get the dispensation process moving without actually meaning it. In such a case, consent is vitiated and the marriage is actually invalid.
regards,
obiterdicta -
that figures...Originally posted by ObiterDicta:It depends.
Normally, it will be valid, since dispensation from the bishop is required for the Catholic party to marry a non-Catholic person.
However, there are occasions when the non-Catholic party purported enters into the marriage by pretending to agree to the conditions for the marriage. A common issue is the raising of kids as Catholics. The non-Catholic party is required to agree to have the kids baptised and raised Catholics, but sometimes they say 'ok' to get the dispensation process moving without actually meaning it. In such a case, consent is vitiated and the marriage is actually invalid.
regards,
obiterdicta