Father Son Holy Spirit Mary Saints Pope........ Priests ....
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Is there some sort of heirarchy?
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No hierachy, since most of them are different.
only Pope, Cardinal, Bishop and Priest
have hierachy. -
What do you mean by "since most of them are different?"Originally posted by Honeybunz:No hierachy, since most of them are different.
only Pope, Cardinal, Bishop and Priest
have hierachy. -
Do you mean as in not "related?"
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Eg.... God is God.
Jesus is our Saviour, fully God and fully man.
Mary is a human, highly honoured because she is the Mother of God (Jesus).
Unless, you're asking us to rank in terms of importance? -
does it matter?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Eg.... God is God.
Jesus is our Saviour, fully God and fully man.
Mary is a human, highly honoured because she is the Mother of God (Jesus).
Unless, you're asking us to rank in terms of importance?
u anyhow mess either one of em, off to hell all the same.
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The Church Hierachy is God's way of ensuring that the Church has shepherds to guide the people of God.
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, the Servant of the Servants of God. He is the spiritual leader of all Christians.
The Pope is aided by the Cardinals, who help to make the Church a more democratic place.
The Bishops are the leaders of the Church in a certain geographic location.
The Priests are the ground personnel.
The Deacons aid the Priests, especially in social work.
What appears is a trianglular model. However, it is actually an inverted model. The priests serve the people, not the other way round.
But all serve God. -
The people of God are not expected to receive direct revelations from God; but are expected to receive guidance from the church heirarchy only? Or those who don't go to the heirarchy?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The Church Hierachy is God's way of ensuring that the Church has shepherds to guide the people of God.
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, the Servant of the Servants of God. He is the spiritual leader of all Christians.
The Pope is aided by the Cardinals, who help to make the Church a more democratic place.
The Bishops are the leaders of the Church in a certain geographic location.
The Priests are the ground personnel.
The Deacons aid the Priests, especially in social work.
What appears is a trianglular model. However, it is actually an inverted model. The priests serve the people, not the other way round.
But all serve God. -
can only think of a very crude illustration,Originally posted by casino_king:The people of God are not expected to receive direct revelations from God; but are expected to receive guidance from the church heirarchy only? Or those who don't go to the heirarchy?
A father was teaching his sons, both to the older brother and also the younger brother.
The younger one may not fully able to understand what the father had just taught them, he can either ask the father to explain (which the father will be most willing to) or he can also ask the older brother. Of course the father can also choose to teach the younger son via the older one as well.
Church leaders are normally chosen because of their maturaity in the things of God, hence God can use them to give guildance to the younger ones. God can teaches us directly, or He may also choose to teach us via the church leaders installed by Him.
Personal opinion, church leaders are given to guide and to teach the church regarding to the things of the Lord, as the Lord teaches and guides them.
(i know, my illustration quite weak, someone may be able to explain better) -
Mary is highest among all saints
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The hierachy is there, because they have the correct answers. There can't be a thousand correct but contradicting answers.Originally posted by casino_king:The people of God are not expected to receive direct revelations from God; but are expected to receive guidance from the church heirarchy only? Or those who don't go to the heirarchy?
The hierachy has God's answer. -
Revelations from God not so much in terms of dogma but more in terms of what the individual's calling and focus in life should be. What his area of service is. IMHO once a person have Faith in God and is born again into the kingdom, then dogma tends to become of no importance.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The hierachy is there, because they have the correct answers. There can't be a thousand correct but contradicting answers.
The hierachy has God's answer. -
Dogma cannot and should not be discarded. That is relativism and indifference.Originally posted by casino_king:Revelations from God not so much in terms of dogma but more in terms of what the individual's calling and focus in life should be. What his area of service is. IMHO once a person have Faith in God and is born again into the kingdom, then dogma tends to become of no importance. -
Of course, the individual has to discern what his/her vocation is. The Church is merely there to advise, that's all.
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hmm.... rating of RC forum will go up.....
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can't beat the other forums... hah
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What is the dogma for in the first place? What is the Church there for? To bring them into the Church and stay there or to bring them into the Kingdom of God?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Dogma cannot and should not be discarded. That is relativism and indifference. -
Dogma is the constant, the unchangeable. Dogma spares us from confusion.Originally posted by casino_king:What is the dogma for in the first place? What is the Church there for? To bring them into the Church and stay there or to bring them into the Kingdom of God?
The Church is the Kingdom of God on Earth, where the wayfarers gather to move into the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Church is a visible channel of grace which God has left on Earth, to sanctify and edify the people of God. -
Let me put it in another way. What does the RC understands by Born Again? Is it membership of the RC church? Baptism? Confession of Faith?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Dogma is the constant, the unchangeable. Dogma spares us from confusion.
The Church is the Kingdom of God on Earth, where the wayfarers gather to move into the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Church is a visible channel of grace which God has left on Earth, to sanctify and edify the people of God. -
This link will be useful.Originally posted by casino_king:Let me put it in another way. What does the RC understands by Born Again? Is it membership of the RC church? Baptism? Confession of Faith?
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/born_again_catholics.htm -
I note then that Roman Catholics acknowledge the "second conversion." Do people who do not experience this "second conversion" still considered to have entered into the Kingdom?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
Jesus said: "cannot see the Kingdom, except be born again." -
Firstly, we are born again in baptism. Baptism inputs Baptismal grace onto a person. It is a indelible mark. You can go convert to something else, but that mark remains on your soul forever.Originally posted by casino_king:I note then that Roman Catholics acknowledge the "second conversion." Do people who do not experience this "second conversion" still considered to have entered into the Kingdom?
Jesus said: "cannot see the Kingdom, except be born again."
But the baptised can still sin. Therefore it is necessary to have this 'second conversion'.
The Church is the earthly extension of the Kingdom of God. However, not all of the members will make it to Heaven. Those who are in a state of unrepentant mortal sin will not see this kingdom. Unless they have this 'second conversion', they will not be saved.
As illustrated, salvation is not a one time thing, but a continuous process. It would do us well to watch how we conduct ourselves, for the kingdom of God is at hand. -
hmm,... when it comes to Ministry and Spiritual things, in my opinion, the church also provide guidances, training and teaching as well.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Of course, the individual has to discern what his/her vocation is. The Church is merely there to advise, that's all.
As Christ to apostle Peter: "Feed My Sheeps"
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There you have it!Originally posted by vince69:hmm,... when it comes to Ministry and Spiritual things, in my opinion, the church also provide guidances, training and teaching as well.
As Christ to apostle Peter: "Feed My Sheeps" -
To you "born again" is a ritual? Why didn't Jesus say "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be baptised, he cannot see the kingdom of God?"Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Firstly, we are born again in baptism. Baptism inputs Baptismal grace onto a person. It is a indelible mark. You can go convert to something else, but that mark remains on your soul forever.
But the baptised can still sin. Therefore it is necessary to have this 'second conversion'.
The Church is the earthly extension of the Kingdom of God. However, not all of the members will make it to Heaven. Those who are in a state of unrepentant mortal sin will not see this kingdom. Unless they have this 'second conversion', they will not be saved.
As illustrated, salvation is not a one time thing, but a continuous process. It would do us well to watch how we conduct ourselves, for the kingdom of God is at hand.
Why did Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God? http://bible.cc/john/3-3.htm
Baptism was practised during Jesus time by John the Baptist.
If as you say: "The Church is the earthly extension of the Kingdom of God."
Why then did Jesus say: "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. bible.cc/matthew/25-1.htm
Why didn't Jesus say that the the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to the Roman military?
The Church is an organisation like the Roman military during Jesus' time.