Motoring review: Audi vs BMW vs SAAB vs Volvo
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Anyone read the May issue of Motoring magazine yet? There's a review of the Audi A4 1.8T vs BMW 320i vs SAAB 9-3ss Aero vs Volvo S40 T5.
As usual they listed down likes and dislikes about all the cars, but in this case they did pick an eventual winner - the Volvo! Some comments about the Aero were:
Good: styling, unique interior, spaciousness, turbo kick
Bad: Turbo lag, build quality and materials, ponderous around the twisties
Turbo lag? Must be the HPT (so get the LPT and pump it up!). I tend to agree with the comments about the quality and the handling though. But it's not really a fair comparison though because the S40 is in a smaller class together with the Focus etc and you would expect it to be more nimble. Should've compared with the S60. -
if its the S60 then shouldn't it go against the 9-5? and the A6 and the 5 series.Originally posted by doodler:Anyone read the May issue of Motoring magazine yet? There's a review of the Audi A4 1.8T vs BMW 320i vs SAAB 9-3ss Aero vs Volvo S40 T5.
As usual they listed down likes and dislikes about all the cars, but in this case they did pick an eventual winner - the Volvo! Some comments about the Aero were:
Good: styling, unique interior, spaciousness, turbo kick
Bad: Turbo lag, build quality and materials, ponderous around the twisties
Turbo lag? Must be the HPT (so get the LPT and pump it up!). I tend to agree with the comments about the quality and the handling though. But it's not really a fair comparison though because the S40 is in a smaller class together with the Focus etc and you would expect it to be more nimble. Should've compared with the S60. -
Coincidentally, the May issue of Torque also had an article on Audi A4 2.0 vs Saab 93SS 2.0t vs Volvo S40 2.4i "cars that can give the 318i a run for its money".
I was also surprised like Doodler on the choice of using S40 instead of S60 for
the comparison, as the S40 is really half a size smaller than either the A4 or the 93.
The S40 was the "winner", whatever that means, but the Saab "could have won and almost did".
I do agree with the reviewer's comments on so-so interior quality of the 93 - lots of areas where the cost cutting is pretty glaring. (Even more so for the 2004 model....
)
But hey, we all bought it for the sum of the parts ya ?
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Well, in terms of size and engine type the 9-3 is a fairer match for the S60 (talking about the base model of course - 2.0litre LPT engine). In fact the S60 is slightly shorter than the 9-3.Originally posted by HENG@:if its the S60 then shouldn't it go against the 9-5? and the A6 and the 5 series. -
I like that. Kinda reminds me of the choice of....wife!Originally posted by t-r-s:But hey, we all bought it for the sum of the parts ya ? 
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yeah but those compared aren't exactly the base models...Originally posted by doodler:Well, in terms of size and engine type the 9-3 is a fairer match for the S60 (talking about the base model of course - 2.0litre LPT engine). In fact the S60 is slightly shorter than the 9-3. -
what we are taking here are the junior exec class cars, which pretty much sums up the S40, 9-3, A4 and 3 Series. Hence I would feel that it is fair to compare the S40 to the 9-3. If you were to take one model up for the volvo then it would be one model up for everyone else too. i do not quite view the S60 as a junior exec car since it is actually capable of fighting in the same class as the 5 series, and has a hot model, the S60 R, to rival(but not quite) the uber-saloons like M5, E55 AMG, RS6 and S-Type R.
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I was surprised to find that the 93 is actually longer than the S60 after parking next to one .Originally posted by doodler:Well, in terms of size and engine type the 9-3 is a fairer match for the S60 (talking about the base model of course - 2.0litre LPT engine). In fact the S60 is slightly shorter than the 9-3.
Always had the impression that the S60 was a bigger car, but maybe it's because of that pronounced shoulder line. On the new S40 though, I find that the big shoulders look a bit out of proportion with the rest of the car, especially when viewed from the back.
My friend who was considering S40, S60 and the 9-3 took them all for the test drive, and found the S40's rear headroom too low, and interior space small. It's now between the S60 and the 93. A4 2.0, Passat 2.0, 318 were all written off earlier ("sluggish", "sluggish", too small). Any other cars you think he should take out for a spin before putting down his money ? Yeah, he tried the T5 and Aero too -
One of the mags that swayed me towards the 9-3SS was the Nov 2002 edition of Top Gear. It was a 4-way shootout - BMW 318iSE, Jaguar X-Type 2.0, Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector (same as our 9-3SS 2.0t) and Volvo S60 2.0T S. Remind me to bring the mag when we next meet.
Here are excerpts:
Styling: "Sometimes a new car's appearance grows on you, sometimes it's the reverse and sometimes you're certain from the start. But with the new 9-3, we knew we liked it before we set off, and then it grew on us."
Performance: "On the road the new Saab feels every bit as eager as the Volvo. Though its turbo motor is a cylinder down on the S60's and its up to 20bhp shy, but it certainly doesn't feel it - the 9-3's throttle response is terrific. Turbo lag? Those days are long gone..."
Ride & Handling: "So if your priority is 'sports' then its either the Saab or, no surprise, the BMW... We didn't think we'd find ourselves saying this about the new 9-3, but in the high mileage week we had with these cars, these two remained hard to split in the final analysis"
Accomodation: "For driver and passenger comfort, the two Swedes win hands down. There's something about their shape or dimensions, their springs or their stuffing, or a combination of all four, which sets the Volvo and Saab front seats apart from not only the BMW and Jag, but most other cars on the road... The Saab has the biggest, best boot with a nice easy-action lid..."
Verdict: "And so to the winner: the new Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector. It looks great, drives superbly, is spacious, extremely comfy, very practical, very well specced, seemingly well screwed together and fast. It represents not only a big advance on the old 9-3, but strongly deserves to loosen the 3-Series' long-term stranglehold on this class. And if anyone tells you that deep beneath the skin it's fundamentally just a Vectra, you just tell 'em to sod off."
Styling:
BMW 318iSE ****
Jaguar X-Type 2.0 **
Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector *****
Volvo S60 2.0T S ***
Performance:
BMW 318iSE ***
Jaguar X-Type 2.0 ***
Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector ****
Volvo S60 2.0T S ****
Ride & Handling:
BMW 318iSE *****
Jaguar X-Type 2.0 ***
Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector *****
Volvo S60 2.0T S ****
Accomodation:
BMW 318iSE ***
Jaguar X-Type 2.0 **
Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector *****
Volvo S60 2.0T S ****
Overall:
BMW 318iSE ****
Jaguar X-Type 2.0 ***
Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector *****
Volvo S60 2.0T S ***
IMO, don't really agree with the part about it being "..seemingly well screwed together.."
enuff said -
IMO, don't really agree with the part about it being "..seemingly well screwed together.."
You got that one right, hahahahaha enuff said 
But honestly speaking, I wasn't even considering the 93 when I started the rounds of test drives. (Too many horror stories about the "other" Swedish cars that my dad and friends used to own) Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the 93 just had the best combination of features, and after a short test drive, ink was put to the dotted line -
what is his standard of "sluggish"?Originally posted by t-r-s:I was surprised to find that the 93 is actually longer than the S60 after parking next to one .
Always had the impression that the S60 was a bigger car, but maybe it's because of that pronounced shoulder line. On the new S40 though, I find that the big shoulders look a bit out of proportion with the rest of the car, especially when viewed from the back.
My friend who was considering S40, S60 and the 9-3 took them all for the test drive, and found the S40's rear headroom too low, and interior space small. It's now between the S60 and the 93. A4 2.0, Passat 2.0, 318 were all written off earlier ("sluggish", "sluggish", too small). Any other cars you think he should take out for a spin before putting down his money ? Yeah, he tried the T5 and Aero too
seemingly among all these comparisms, not a single mercedes is seen? -
That's a good question, that's why i put it in " ". Sometimes a car feels slow, but isn't actually slow, while other cars feel fast when they aren't really that fast. The 93 and the other small turbos feel fast because of the surge once the turbo spools up ? Maybe because he felt the CVT in the A4 was going on and on and on and on... I told him he should go back and take out the 1.8T models.Originally posted by HENG@:what is his standard of "sluggish"?
seemingly among all these comparisms, not a single mercedes is seen?
There are no C180s or C200s in the comparisons because the intended demographics are different ? The age profile for Benz (and perhaps Jaguar) seems to be older ? Or maybe it's considered even higher on the "luxury scale" ? I don't know... -
well... things like a low boost turbo may make it seem faster, even if the 0-100 time is slower.Originally posted by t-r-s:That's a good question, that's why i put it in " ". Sometimes a car feels slow, but isn't actually slow, while other cars feel fast when they aren't really that fast. The 93 and the other small turbos feel fast because of the surge once the turbo spools up ? Maybe because he felt the CVT in the A4 was going on and on and on and on... I told him he should go back and take out the 1.8T models.
There are no C180s or C200s in the comparisons because the intended demographics are different ? The age profile for Benz (and perhaps Jaguar) seems to be older ? Or maybe it's considered even higher on the "luxury scale" ? I don't know...
or maybe a lighter weight, resulting in smaller inertia makes a car feel quicker off the line. in some cases, some cars ARE quicker off the mark even though the other car ends up with a 0-100 time.
anyways if he wants a fast feeling car, the supercharged mercs do feel fast due to high torque at virtually no revs.
but sometimes i feel mercs are not taken into comparism because of their slightly higher pricing.
anyways my family's current stable consists of a turbocharged car with 0.5bar boost and a supercharged 2l car, so i have a pretty good comparism of supercharge vs turbocharge -
Hmm... but then the S40 is based on the same platform as the new Focus and the Mazda3, which one could argue, puts it in the "family sedan" classOriginally posted by HENG@:what we are taking here are the junior exec class cars, which pretty much sums up the S40, 9-3, A4 and 3 Series. Hence I would feel that it is fair to compare the S40 to the 9-3. If you were to take one model up for the volvo then it would be one model up for everyone else too. i do not quite view the S60 as a junior exec car since it is actually capable of fighting in the same class as the 5 series, and has a hot model, the S60 R, to rival(but not quite) the uber-saloons like M5, E55 AMG, RS6 and S-Type R.
However Volvo has gone and stuffed a big engine in it which blurs the lines somewhat.
Pity Saab doesn't have any model below the 9-3 which could be pitted against the S40... however if the 9-2 makes it here, that might be a possible candidate... both NA base models are quite close in terms of capacity and output.
Bro, thanks for bringing up the subject of 'hot' models! It seems like every other manufacturer (well, in the exec class anyway) has uber-mobiles in its lineup except for Saab. The Aeros can't really be considered hot, just kind of warm
But anyway, who cares whether this class or that class... all that matters is that you like the car!
Edit: Oops forgot, the other thing that matters is how much does it cost?? -
Originally posted by HENG@:
He is not considering Merc at all due to what he thinks is an "old" image even though I tried to convince him that he should at least try the C200. Strangely he did not find Volvo "old"... which is a fairly common perception. Perhaps he would be better off driving a WRX or Evo... !!!! hhahahahaa
anyways if he wants a fast feeling car, the supercharged mercs do feel fast due to high torque at virtually no revs.
but sometimes i feel mercs are not taken into comparism because of their slightly higher pricing.
He did try out his friend's Fairlady (parallel 350Z) and he said it only had space for 2 umbrellas and a pizza in the rear Also, the roadtax and insurance is not very pleasant -
its a nice car imho. but it, and the S40, both sit squarely in the junior exec class and both being swede, and turboed, are more than a fair comparism. truth be told, length n dimensions do not have so much to do as the class as the intensions for the car and the class it occupiesOriginally posted by doodler:Hmm... but then the S40 is based on the same platform as the new Focus and the Mazda3, which one could argue, puts it in the "family sedan" class However Volvo has gone and stuffed a big engine in it which blurs the lines somewhat.
Pity Saab doesn't have any model below the 9-3 which could be pitted against the S40... however if the 9-2 makes it here, that might be a possible candidate... both NA base models are quite close in terms of capacity and output.
Bro, thanks for bringing up the subject of 'hot' models! It seems like every other manufacturer (well, in the exec class anyway) has uber-mobiles in its lineup except for Saab. The Aeros can't really be considered hot, just kind of warm
But anyway, who cares whether this class or that class... all that matters is that you like the car! -
Can we get to know your family, hahaOriginally posted by HENG@:anyways my family's current stable consists of a turbocharged car with 0.5bar boost and a supercharged 2l car, so i have a pretty good comparism of supercharge vs turbocharge -
hmm merc is getting much younger nowadays...Originally posted by t-r-s:He is not considering Merc at all due to what he thinks is an "old" image even though I tried to convince him that he should at least try the C200. Strangely he did not find Volvo "old"... which is a fairly common perception. Perhaps he would be better off driving a WRX or Evo... !!!! hhahahahaa He did try out his friend's Fairlady (parallel 350Z) and he said it only had space for 2 umbrellas and a pizza in the rear Also, the roadtax and insurance is not very pleasant
maybe he's not following in the trends of the motor industry?
well... anyways im suprised he managed to get the pizza in as well...
ah dun think he wants a WRX or EVO. he prob wants something like a M5 -
eh... heh sure, if u wannaOriginally posted by doodler:Can we get to know your family, haha -
Damn, same here. That was reinforced by seeing it in the metal at the '02 motorshow. At the time I thought it would be priced out of reach, but the actual pricing at launch (plus the test drive of course) clinched it for me.Originally posted by GreyMatter:One of the mags that swayed me towards the 9-3SS was the Nov 2002 edition of Top Gear. It was a 4-way shootout - BMW 318iSE, Jaguar X-Type 2.0, Saab 9-3 1.8t Vector (same as our 9-3SS 2.0t) and Volvo S60 2.0T S. -
Think he had to fold the pizza first!Originally posted by HENG@:... anyways im suprised he managed to get the pizza in as well... -
Think he had to fold the pizza first!Originally posted by HENG@:... anyways im suprised he managed to get the pizza in as well...
Edit: Ack! Sorry, double post. Eh, why no delete function?? -
u sure he folded it, and not like, ate half of it 1st?Originally posted by doodler:Think he had to fold the pizza first! -
Hi t-r-s, what horror stories about the other swdes make? Care to share? I'm seriously considering S60 2.0T.
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How about the V50 T5? I think the proportions are quite balanced on the V50. I agree that the S40 falls a tad short in the J.Lo end.Originally posted by t-r-s:Any other cars you think he should take out for a spin before putting down his money ? Yeah, he tried the T5 and Aero too
Or how about the all new A6? What a grille - love it or hate it! Some have likened it to the Norwegian painter Edvard Munch classic "The Scream"