Shakespeare Interactive Series #1: The WinterÂ’s Tale
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INTRODUCTION
Dear friends, this thread will not help you score for your Literature examination or to make you fall in love with Shakespeare overnight. I will not go into details of the plays because most of you would have fallen asleep before proceeding to the next scene. In order to truly enjoy the richness of the plays it is advisable to read the full text. However such an attempt will surly bore those who have no love for Shakespeare to tears. (Maybe even to madness)
Taking this into consideration, I decided not to post the full text in the series. If you are interested, you can easily read the full text from the Internet, or get them from the libraries. You can also grab a copy of the modern translation from any good bookshops.
My main intention is to explore the various ways in which the plays might be relevant to our personal experiences. To do this I will need you to be creative, to be imaginative and be able to put yourself into the characters? shoes. I need you to feel the pain, the anger, the love, etc of the characters. My advice is not to judge the characters base on your first impression. Try to understand what they are going through before passing any judgements. In short, I need you to play the role of Kings, Queens, young lovers, fools, etc; I need you to be human.
I will first summarize the scenes, follow by my own interpretations. Most importantly, I will attempt to relate the events with our own experiences in the form of question(s). For those who are familiar with Shakespeare, please feel free to criticize my interpretations for I am looking forward to a healthy debate. You can also add in your opinions to enrich the discussion, I will really appreciate your contributions.
Also please answer the questions posted (in blue) as my intentions is to set you thinking about matters that you may have taken for granted. I will try my best to be as brief as possible. For those who have never read Shakespeare before, I will suggest you read the summary before proceeding to my interpretations. Try reading it like a story, have fun.
Themes about friendships, marriages, justices, etc are abundant in Shakespeare's plays. I strongly encourage anyone that is doing psychology to read them. They are gems waiting to be discovered if you are willing to give it a try. Turn the stones into gems. You will realize that they have so much to offer.
I have chosen one of his last plays, i.e. THE WINTER'S TALE for my first Interactive series. Not many people are aware about this play. We are more familiar with his famous plays like Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet, King Lear, etc. I don't think Hollywood will be interested to make a movie out of it. I am actually taking a great risk in choosing an 'unknown' play to start off my Interactive series. But I feel that we must give these 'unknown' plays an opportunity to be recognized and appreciated.
Most importantly I need your contributions, after all the key word here is 'INTERACTIVE'.
Well, hold on tight and let the journey begins...
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Summary Art 1, Scene 1:
In this short scene, you are introduced to two characters i.e. Archidamus, a Bohemian courtier, and Camillo, a Sicilian courtier and trusted friend of Leontes, King of Sicilia. Through their short conversation, we learn that the Leontes, King of Sicilia and Polixenes, King of Bohemian were childhood friends. Both kings were raised together, although now their responsibilities as kings keep them apart. Both courtiers also agree that Prince Mamillius of Sicilia (son of Leontes) shows great promises.
DP's Interpretation:
There are a few things we can learn from this scene. Firstly, the past/present status of friendship between the two kings. Secondly, the future of Sicilia in the form of Prince Mamillius and lastly, the character of Camillo who seems to be a faithful and patriotic courtier full of love for his position, his king and queen. He is not just an advisor to Leontes, but also his trusted friend.
Interactive Time:
Do you have any childhood friends?
When is the last time you contact each other?
Do you find that as times passes, once you start joining the work force, having b/g friends or family, etc. you started to drift further and further from each other?
What do you think is the main reason for drifting apart? Not enough time? You've lost contact? Or you simply don't bother? -
Okay to get this thread rolling, let me answer the questions. I do have two childhood friends. One married one still single. The last time we contact each was about a month ago.
Of course as time passes we tend to meet lesser, but I don't really think that have affect our friendship. (Thanks to sms)
The main reason for drifting apart (I hope not) is time. I am just too busy with my work and studies. (I know I know, bad excuse)
So what about you guys? -
Do you have any childhood friends?
hmm.... would u consider sec sch as childhood? have a gf tat used to be very closed, so closed until my disciple mistress have to speak to me in private, fearing that we becoming lesbian couple...
When is the last time you contact each other?
tat was last year I think... called me cos of her son 2 yrs old bday... but end up din go cos i fell sick... did tried to sms her a couple of times, but the lack of enthusiaism frm her response kinda "dis-motivate me"....
Do you find that as times passes, once you start joining the work force, having b/g friends or family, etc. you started to drift further and further from each other?
as we grew, we started to have diff. social circles and matured in diff stage and speed. common topics bec lesser and lesser, having a busy worklife doesn't help abit...
What do you think is the main reason for drifting apart? Not enough time? You've lost contact? Or you simply don't bother?[/b][/quote]
I would think abit of all.... plus I'm those who seldom call up anyone. usually it's my friendst tat call me, so after awhile it seems very strange for me to call ppl... thank goodness for sms nowaday! -
Yup tare.
We are really lucky to have all these high-tech gadgets to help us keep in touch.
Now back to the 'The Winter's Tale'.
Well, Leontes and Polixenes face the same problems too. Can you imagine in the past, when there were no emails, Internet, ICQ, sms, etc., how difficult it must be for friends living in different countries to keep in touch with each other?
As noted by Camillo, due to their social status, royal duties, and the fact that their respective countries are separated widely apart from each other, their friendship are only maintain
with interchange of gifts, letters, loving
embassies; that they have seemed to be together,
though absent, shook hands, as over a vast, and
embraced, as it were, from the ends of opposed
winds. The heavens continue their loves!
Act 1, Scene 1, Lines 27 - 31
Relationships are either strengthen or weaken over Time and Distance. Some people think that the longer the time a couple live apart from each other the stronger their relationship will be, while others disagree.
What is your view? Do you think staying away from each other for a period of time will strengthen your relationships with your friends, family members, loved one? Or will this weaken them?
The heavens continue their loves ........
Well said, but unfortunately, heavens have other plans in store for our two childhood friends. Apparently, the friendship between Leontes and Polixenes weaken over time. So one fine day Polixenes decided to pay his best friend Leontes a visit. He must be having such a great time because he stayed at his friend's house for NINE WHOLE MONTHS!
HmmÂ…
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My view regarding the above question is staying apart from each other for too long will weaken relationships.
You need a lots and lots of love, faith, patience and understanding to maintain such relationship.
Unfortunately most people do not have such will-power.
What about you? -
No response from my audiences? Sigh Â… so sad. But I canÂ’t wait for nine months (like Polixenes) for my next post. The play must goes on Â…
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Summary Art 1, Scene 2:
Enter Leontes, Hermione (Wife of Leontes, Queen of Sicilia) Mamillius, Polixenes, Camillo, and Attendants. (Now where the heck is Archidamus? Shakespeare is famous for making people disappear without giving any valid reasons)
At this point, Polixenes had enough fun and decided it is time to go home. Leontes however tries to get him to stay for another week but without any success. So he asks his wife Hermione to convince Polixenes, which she accomplishes splendidly. Unfortunately this really pisses Leontes off. (It is like how come I ask cannot u ask can! Something fishy must be going on)
To worsen the matter, unknown to others, Leontes is insanely jealous of Polixenes and Hermione. Although he has no hard evidence on which to base his suspicions, he is convince that they are secretly committing adultery behind his back.
He excuses his wife and best friend from his presence while he continues his strange, angry conversation with his uncomprehending son, Mamillius. (Poor boy, as this point Leontes has already going nuts with jealousy) -
When Leontes see Camillo, he excuses Mamillius (The young prince must be feeling really relief) and questions Camillo who is also unaware of the king's suspicions. (The fact is that although nobody thinks Polixenes and Hermione are having an affair except Leontes. He also thinks that everyone know this and is gossiping behind his back)
Leontes convinces that Camillo is either stupid or playing dumb and grows increasingly irate. When he finally tells Camillo of what he suspects, the advisor is horrified and does not believe it. Leontes grows increasingly furious, and Camillo, seeing the king's conviction, decided to play smart and pretend to give in. (Good move)
At Leontes' expressed desire to see Polixenes dead of poison, he volunteers to carry out the task. His condition is that Leontes must keep the queen in her present status, and do nothing to stain her honor. The king agrees, and Camillo affirms again that he will poison Polixenes. -
After the king leaves, Camillo is at a loss, should he remain loyal to his king or should he carry out the dreadful task and end the life of poor Polixenes?
He resolves not to do it. Just then Polixenes enters, disturbed by his most recent brush with Leontes. He asks Camillo about the change in the king's manner but Camillo refuses to give a straightforward answer.
However when Polixenes continues to entreat him, Camillo not only tells him the truth, he also agrees to help Polixenes and all his men to escape. Now that he has betrayed his king, Camillo requests to serve at Polixenes' court which Polixenes agrees. (You help me I help you, win-win situation) -
After finished reading this scene, many questions come into my mind. Firstly how is it possible for a king to stay in another country for nine whole months?
This seems pretty irresponsible to me. Nine months are a long time to be away from the throne. There is simply too much risk involved. The only logical reason for such an irresponsible act is for Shakespeare to justify LeontesÂ’ jealousy, i.e. HermioneÂ’s pregnancy (She will be giving birth very soon)
Secondly, how can one become so jealous in such a short time? According to many critics Leontes fears are uncalled for. This I disagree. Although not mentioned in the play, I believe that somewhere along the nine months, some incidents might have trigger off LeontesÂ’s suspicious.
But Leontes is unable to find any concrete proofs. I believe that is why he wants Polixenes to stay for another week hoping to gather evidences against him. As times passes and still unable to gather any concrete evidences, out of anger and desperate, he decided to kill Polixenes.
Imagine, you are very sure that your the other half is having an affair with your best friend.
What will you do? Will you confront them face-to-face? -
Firstly how is it possible for a king to stay in another country for nine whole months?
maybe tat time their pigeons very hardworking leh? no email rite? so fei ge chuang shu! remote management.... 
either tat or the kingdom is up and running, almost like auto pilot and doesn't need his constant attention.. like some co. the boss can dun be ard, yet biz as usual...
Secondly, how can one become so jealous in such a short time?
Jealousy as an emotions can be felt instantenously. unless it's cultivated and grow to be part of the character... then LL...
it can be triggered by the smallest event... and even one's own facet of imagination... concrete proof is not needed for the feeling of tat emotion, only need as an excuse to vent it out...
Imagine, you are very sure that your the other half is having an affair with your best friend.
What will you do? Will you confront them face-to-face?
so far nvr happened. imagine har?? *imagining* nope still can't happened! wahahaha...... if u noe my best friend and my hubby u'll noe why!
the closest ever happened was one of my close friend (who ain't a friend anymore) tries to be "nice" to my hubby. She has seen how nice my hubby is to me and have expressed admiration of such character. i'm ok with tat, until she pissed me off and we end up not talking and i found out tat she kept calling him. Which she still does now.... -
That was a close one.Originally posted by tare:the closest ever happened was one of my close friend (who ain't a friend anymore) tries to be "nice" to my hubby. She has seen how nice my hubby is to me and have expressed admiration of such character. i'm ok with tat, until she pissed me off and we end up not talking and i found out tat she kept calling him. Which she still does now....
Your hubby is really a hao nan ren.
If my close friend did that to me, I will chop off his c*ck! -
yah too nice to be rude to her, so she call he just entertained....Originally posted by DeadPoet:That was a close one.
Your hubby is really a hao nan ren.
If my close friend did that to me, I will chop off his c*ck!
well she doesn't have tat for me to chop! wahahahaa..... -
Some people cannot give face lah. Esp. those who are eyeing ur love one.Originally posted by tare:yah too nice to be rude to her, so she call he just entertained....
well she doesn't have tat for me to chop! wahahahaa..... -
hahaaa... it's okie almost all my gfs said if she dare lay a finger on him, they help me humtum her!Originally posted by DeadPoet:Some people cannot give face lah. Esp. those who are eyeing ur love one. -
Well they are better than Leontes. This mad king tries to posion his best friend...Originally posted by tare:hahaaa... it's okie almost all my gfs said if she dare lay a finger on him, they help me humtum her!
Anyway, back to the play. -
The idea of your best friend having an affair with your spouse or girl/boy friend is applicable even in todayÂ’s context. We are constantly reminded by various media, for example, movies, newspapers, magazines, etc of the possibilities of being betrayed by our closest friends. Like the saying goes, your worst enemy may be your closest friend.
Regardless if his jealousy is justified, this is exactly how Leontes is feeling now. Imagine the pain he is going through, to be betrayed (although that is totally untrue) by his wife and best friend. -
By now, you can sense Leontes is an inferior person, lack of self-confidence and low self-esteem. Maybe he feels that he is not as handsome as Polixenes or he is not good enough for Hermione.
Whatever the reasons we were not told, but one thing for sure is that he feels threaten.
How many of you have this kind of feeling before?
Are you constantly comparing yourself with your friends, colleagues, sibling, etc? -
Hmm ... is Shakespeare really that unpopular here?
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How many of you have this kind of feeling before?
nope... i seldom feel threatened... in fact seldom jealous also... either my self image not bad or i simply bochup!
Are you constantly comparing yourself with your friends, colleagues, sibling, etc?
comparing? nope.... i'm only perfectionist to myself. ren bi ren qi shi ren... i still dun wanna die yet... -
Haiz.Its sad that Literature is seen by lotsa fellas as irrelevant to life, but you and I probably know better.Well, I never read The Winter's Tale but I've read Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.His english is tough but after you get past his semantics , the beauty really oozes forth.
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Originally posted by tare:
Are u sure?
[b]How many of you have this kind of feeling before?
nope... i seldom feel threatened... in fact seldom jealous also... either my self image not bad or i simply bochup!
Are you constantly comparing yourself with your friends, colleagues, sibling, etc?
comparing? nope.... i'm only perfectionist to myself. ren bi ren qi shi ren... i still dun wanna die yet... [/b]
No lah, no lah, I believe u lah.
But I think it is natural for us to compare with each other. Compare about works, exam results, etc.
Top Forums result! -
I agree, Literature is about life. But many people fail to see it.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Haiz.Its sad that Literature is seen by lotsa fellas as irrelevant to life, but you and I probably know better.Well, I never read The Winter's Tale but I've read Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.His english is tough but after you get past his semantics , the beauty really oozes forth.
Well, many of us have not read 'The Winter's Tale'. That is why I've chosen it.
No matter what, I will keep on posting till the end of the play.
P.S. By the way, if you are free, please reply my pm. Thanks. -
haahaa.. yes i'm pretty sure.... cos usually i made others feel threaten.... wahahaaa... just kidding... wait ppl say i egoOriginally posted by DeadPoet:Are u sure?
No lah, no lah, I believe u lah.
But I think it is natural for us to compare with each other. Compare about works, exam results, etc.
Top Forums result! -
A common theme in Shakespeare is the conflict between marriage and friendship. It seems that these two cannot co-exist peacefully. Polixenes tells Hermione that they were so innocence before knew women and duties of marriage. However once occupied with the responsibilities of marriage, their friendship are affected.
Well our friend Leontes seems to be running away from his responsibilities as husband, father and king. Maybe his unfounded jealousy is a way to for him to escape from all these responsibilities. He fails to understand that a king's duties as husband and father are inseparable from his duties as head of state. Failure in any one of the roles will affect the others.
Do you find yourself getting easily irritated or angry when you are under tremendously stress, especially when trying to run away from responsibilities?
Put yourself in his shoes...
You were once a care-free young lad. And gradually, you become a king, a husband and a father. Unless you are very good at coping with stress, or else at certain stage you may feel burnt out. I am not suggesting Leontes is right in taking this particular course of action, but we need to give him a chance to be heard.