Omnipotent?
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We are not believing in sth that is illogical my friend. The fact that God isnt confined by logic is itself logical. Cos of course God cant be bound by sth he has created right? So it is logical. Securing this fact, pls change your qn.Originally posted by stupidissmart:ehh... forgive me for asking but wat in the world is not logical other than lies ? Do the church go around and propagate tat god is illogical ? If it is illogical how do u seek trying to understanding it ? Even though there r some phenomenon that r hard to believe, people will still not abandon logic and try to explain it in a rational manner. Believe in something illogical really makes one an illogical person
Thanks
Im getting the hang of serious discussion. -
i dont dare to answer cos i dont know the answer. Can somebody help? i will be delighted to listenOriginally posted by kaister:It's true that we cannot dismiss logic altogether as well. The whole fabric of our modern day society builds upon that.
So can God be defined by logic then? -
God isn't confined by logic = assumption. It's not a logic.Originally posted by davidche:We are not believing in sth that is illogical my friend. The fact that God isnt confined by logic is itself logical. Cos of course God cant be bound by sth he has created right? So it is logical. Securing this fact, pls change your qn.
Thanks
Im getting the hang of serious discussion.
God can't be bound by somthing he has created = also assumption. This is also not logical.
So is God bound by logic? Why? -
assumption for God's existence or he cant be bound by sth he has created?Originally posted by kaister:God isn't confined by logic = assumption. It's not a logic.
God can't be bound by somthing he has created = also assumption. This is also not logical.
So is God bound by logic? Why?
If he is a God, he wont be bound by sth he has created. Tell me, is this an assumption? -
Yes. It is an assumption until you can prove or support it.Originally posted by davidche:assumption for God's existence or he cant be bound by sth he has created?
If he is a God, he wont be bound by sth he has created. Tell me, is this an assumption? -
presupposition and assumptuion is different in meaning.Originally posted by kaister:Yes. It is an assumption until you can prove or support it. -
Same.Originally posted by davidche:presupposition and assumptuion is different in meaning.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hs=zIB&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=define%3A+presupposition&btnG=Search&meta= -
different usage. But, this is useless argument anyway.Originally posted by kaister:
FYI, all the arguements and facts in science all cross over presuppositions.
or build on presuppositions. -
I think you've got your facts wrong. All arguements and facts in RELIGION are based on assumptions, not the other way round.Originally posted by davidche:different usage. But, this is useless argument anyway.
FYI, all the arguements and facts in science all cross over presuppositions.
or build on presuppositions.
Btw, you're the one who made the presuppositions, how come science is taking the blame now? Take a look if you cannot remember:
How can you make a sweeping statement and just walk away without supporting your words?Originally posted by davidche:assumption for God's existence or he cant be bound by sth he has created?
If he is a God, he wont be bound by sth he has created. Tell me, is this an assumption? -
Because he does that all the time?Originally posted by kaister:How can you make a sweeping statement and just walk away without supporting your words?
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Because he is under outpatient treatment in IMH?Originally posted by M©+square:Because he does that all the time? -
I wouldn't dare say that.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Because he is under outpatient treatment in IMH?
Wait he will say i idiotic....
Or put me down to his level.
Cheers -
lol you dont even dare to post a statement or elaborate on anything but when it comes to insulting ppl you are number one, you post the most.Originally posted by M©+square:I wouldn't dare say that.
Wait he will say i idiotic.... Or put me down to his level.
Cheers
but yup, you are busy i understand.
x2 for Zwei.
You dont see him posting a lot but when it comes to insulting ppl he wld start posting his opinions. Very good for starters. -
All religion and facts are built on presuppositions. Its like grapes and apple are fruits. And only missed the word 'grapes' and you say i gt the facts wrong..Originally posted by kaister:How can you make a sweeping statement and just walk away without supporting your words?
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My one statement could be quite understood by most people except for a few.Originally posted by davidche:lol you dont even dare to post a statement or elaborate on anything but when it comes to insulting ppl you are number one, you post the most.
but yup, you are busy i understand.
And to elaborate for you is really.....hai....Okie. Yah, just take it that i'm busy just to elaborate to you.
Ok ok, i don't dare to elaborate on anything.
When have i insulted you?
You call people idiotic in this forum more then i've ever mentioned this word throughout my stay in sgforums! -
I felt there is another point worth mentioning. Why aren't u "bounded" by the things u create ? Men create cars yet it still can physically get crushed by them. Where do u get the assumption tat being r not bounded by the things they create ?
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That's because I tend to read the posts before I start posting.Originally posted by davidche:lol you dont even dare to post a statement or elaborate on anything but when it comes to insulting ppl you are number one, you post the most.
but yup, you are busy i understand.
x2 for Zwei.
You dont see him posting a lot but when it comes to insulting ppl he wld start posting his opinions. Very good for starters. -
I find pursuing such religious ideals in the backdrop of such a turbulent 21st century (whisi is ironically caused by some parties pursuing reigious ideals) a waste of time, a counterproductive exercise, and in some ways, falling right into the trap of the very people you are trying to emulate.
I am beginning to find organised religion dangerous, as it goes against logic, encourages one to go against logic in a hope to emulate the supposed being who supposedly created this logic, rendering it a redundent creation (if it was created, which I do not concurr) and thereby dropping further into the so-called paradox as mentioned earlier in this thread.
There are more important things to do, like verifying that we are indeed not alone in this universe, as predicted not by any exclusive branch of science, but by mathematics, the language of logic.
So......who are the arrogant ones? -
I dont get it...Originally posted by crosshairs:I find pursuing such religious ideals in the backdrop of such a turbulent 21st century (whisi is ironically caused by some parties pursuing reigious ideals) a waste of time, a counterproductive exercise, and in some ways, falling right into the trap of the very people you are trying to emulate.
I am beginning to find organised religion dangerous, as it goes against logic, encourages one to go against logic in a hope to emulate the supposed being who supposedly created this logic, rendering it a redundent creation (if it was created, which I do not concurr) and thereby dropping further into the so-called paradox as mentioned earlier in this thread.
There are more important things to do, like verifying that we are indeed not alone in this universe, as predicted not by any exclusive branch of science, but by mathematics, the language of logic.
So......who are the arrogant ones? -
Oh yes this is so true.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I felt there is another point worth mentioning. Why aren't u "bounded" by the things u create ? Men create cars yet it still can physically get crushed by them. Where do u get the assumption tat being r not bounded by the things they create ?
Then again, why is God not bound by logic? Did the bible says so? -
Huh .. God is also bound by logic.Originally posted by kaister:Oh yes this is so true.
Then again, why is God not bound by logic? Did the bible says so?
For example, God also abide by the law of non contradiction right? -
That's what I thought too... but apparantly not some people hereOriginally posted by Icemoon:Huh .. God is also bound by logic.
For example, God also abide by the law of non contradiction right?
True omnipotence is much debatable and regretably not possible logically.
Think about it... if God's truly omnipotent, wouldn't he create humans with free choice and yet obey him? Sounds contradictory but surely true omnipotence can do that? -
I think Man tend to project a lot of our values and ideals unto our idea of God; omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, the list goes on. However, we can infer some of these qualities from scripture. As for being bound by logic; 2 trained profs in my Uni argue from different sides. i'm just as confusedOriginally posted by kaister:Oh yes this is so true.
Then again, why is God not bound by logic? Did the bible says so? -
I truly want to know about this and you're not the only one confused...Originally posted by ben1xy:I think Man tend to project a lot of our values and ideals unto our idea of God; omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, the list goes on. However, we can infer some of these qualities from scripture. As for being bound by logic; 2 trained profs in my Uni argue from different sides. i'm just as confused
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I'll recommend you a paper:Originally posted by kaister:That's what I thought too... but apparantly not some people here
True omnipotence is much debatable and regretably not possible logically.
Think about it... if God's truly omnipotent, wouldn't he create humans with free choice and yet obey him? Sounds contradictory but surely true omnipotence can do that?
Schoenig, R. (1998 ) The Free Will Theodicy, Religious Studies, Vol 34: 457-470
it's worth reading