New Creation Church - Church of Cheap Grace?
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faith and works!Originally posted by John The Baptist:Then pls tell me how to live by grace?
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no need go so far la.. we got in house doctor..Originally posted by John The Baptist:Ambulance siren. Medics. Stretcher. Hospital. Warded. Treatment by doctors. Enjoy stay there ok? -
But if break arm or break leg or break neck then how?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:no need go so far la.. we got in house doctor.. -
Then i say bye bye to you.Originally posted by John The Baptist:But if break arm or break leg or break neck then how? -
God's grace will be given for healing of my broken neck by the Blood of Jesus Christ & by His stripes I am healed!Originally posted by M©+square:Then i say bye bye to you. -
dunno why I read this always have the charismatic feeling ..Originally posted by John The Baptist:by His stripes I am healed! -
NCC teaches Anti-normianism
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Pardon my ignorance, what's that?
I know NCC teach things like the holy communion has power to heal. -
really? can you elaborate?Originally posted by SocialOutcast:Pardon my ignorance, what's that?
I know NCC teach things like the holy communion has power to heal. -
Antinomianism is the belief that Christians are liberated from the observance of moral laws when God's grace is active.Originally posted by SocialOutcast:Pardon my ignorance, what's that?
I know NCC teach things like the holy communion has power to heal.
They dun heed the 10 commandments and other laws because they mistook God's grace for licentiousness.
ya....their Holy Communion got healing power...take 3 times a day and be healed -
i suddenly remembered one friend-ed, during sec school he went to ncc, den i first joined chc den i saw him there.
ito: wad the hell r u doing here!?
fren: wad the f-uck u doing here!?
so conclusion is sama sama la.. -
It's sad that they have faith in the wrong place.Originally posted by NT2:Antinomianism is the belief that Christians are liberated from the observance of moral laws when God's grace is active.
They dun heed the 10 commandments and other laws because they mistook God's grace for licentiousness.
ya....their Holy Communion got healing power...take 3 times a day and be healed -
ah .. isn't that a license to sin?Originally posted by NT2:Antinomianism is the belief that Christians are liberated from the observance of moral laws when God's grace is active.
They dun heed the 10 commandments and other laws because they mistook God's grace for licentiousness.
NCC teaches no such thing. I think Brey can elaborate. He is more familiar with NCC doctrine than me. -
NT2, I think you have to be very careful what you say, I have listened to Ps Princes sermons many times, I do not think that NCC preaches Antinomianism.
I don't think that they also say that their holy communion has healing powers, the story is that one of their members was told by God to do it 3 times a day to receive His healing. It is his faith in the matter that healed him and the fact that he was obedient to God. Just like namann who was told to go wash in the river to be healed of his leprosy. Same situation. The faith which led to the action was the thing that healed. -
Maybe NT2 presented it in a negetive aspect.Originally posted by breytonhartge:NT2, I think you have to be very careful what you say, I have listened to Ps Princes sermons many times, I do not think that NCC preaches Antinomianism.
I don't think that they also say that their holy communion has healing powers, the story is that one of their members was told by God to do it 3 times a day to receive His healing. It is his faith in the matter that healed him and the fact that he was obedient to God. Just like namann who was told to go wash in the river to be healed of his leprosy. Same situation. The faith which led to the action was the thing that healed.
My version is that.
Due to grace, in no matter what you do or sin. So as long as Jesus is your sin offering to God.
God will not look onto your sins, instead God will see the clothe of righteousness on you.
This is one of the few illustrations i've heard from the sermon and from many NCC goers.
And this i have the most problem with. -
I think that the emphasis that Ps Prince was trying to put on was the grace of God based on your heart. God sees the heart. Why do we as mere mortals debate this point over and over and over again? It seems silly to me.Originally posted by M©+square:Maybe NT2 presented it in a negetive aspect.
My version is that.
Due to grace, in no matter what you do or sin. So as long as Jesus is your sin offering to God.
God will not look onto your sins, instead God will see the clothe of righteousness on you.
This is one of the few illustrations i've heard from the sermon and from many NCC goers.
And this i have the most problem with.
Your version describes it rightly, if Jesus is our righteousness and He is the offering that was given for the remission of our sins, then our sins are forgiven, otherwise, why believe? Why the need for a saviour? Why then put Jesus on a cross and have Him die for us?
This is the main message of Christ, that He died for our sins. This is tied in very strongly with the OT requirement for an offering for the atonement of sins. It is because of Grace that we are saved. If we are saved, the bible says that God sees our sins no more, though are garments are scarlett, we are washed as white as snow. Or if you prefer, an older christian song said something along the lines of the blood of Jesus covering our sins. God will see the clothe of righteousness on us if we have Christ as our saviour. It is what the bible says.
Just help me to understand where you are coming from MC, what exactly is the problem?
That aside, how are you MC? Hope that you are well and have recovered fully! You take care of yourself. -
I have many friends who visited the church giving me negative reports including people from full-time ministry too.
Grace is indeed a free gift from God but dun bastardise it. Jesus paid for your sins but you got to repent from your sins. The whole Bible talks abt sin, judgement and repentace....dun use one word Grace and then rule it all.
The God who ask the person to receive Holy Communion 3 times a day simply do not know what 'he' is saying. The Communion from the very mouths of Jesus is a memorial act.
With no apologies. taking communion 3 times to get healed in essense of making the things of God superstitious and is the mosty deceiving of all.
Bible, Sacraments and even names of God when used for the wrong reasons no matter how innocent it sounds is not treating God His due respect.
We saw in Old testament a king wanting to offer incense to God but was judged because he has no right to do that duty of a priest. The logic thinking is that he wanted to offer God incense..yes he is a devoted worshipper of God....but God never ordain you to do that..pls dun assume. -
of coz the sermon dun use the term antinomianism but do take the time to reconsider the sermons once again and many teaching perhaps u already taken into your system.Originally posted by breytonhartge:NT2, I think you have to be very careful what you say, I have listened to Ps Princes sermons many times, I do not think that NCC preaches Antinomianism.
I don't think that they also say that their holy communion has healing powers, the story is that one of their members was told by God to do it 3 times a day to receive His healing. It is his faith in the matter that healed him and the fact that he was obedient to God. Just like namann who was told to go wash in the river to be healed of his leprosy. Same situation. The faith which led to the action was the thing that healed. -
don't believe your friends. go there yourself.Originally posted by NT2:I have many friends who visited the church giving me negative reports including people from full-time ministry too.
Go there during midweek services (thur and fri evening).
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Woah, evangelising for NCC.Originally posted by Icemoon:don't believe your friends. go there yourself.
Go there during midweek services (thur and fri evening).
I like JP though.
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evangelising to a Christian by a non-member of that church is fine I guess ..Originally posted by M©+square:Woah, evangelising for NCC.
somemore it is only midweek service, which is a cover name for Mass Bible Study. -
JP put it across rightly, God sees the heart ultimately. Like what my signature below says.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I think that the emphasis that Ps Prince was trying to put on was the grace of God based on your heart. God sees the heart. Why do we as mere mortals debate this point over and over and over again? It seems silly to me.
Your version describes it rightly, if Jesus is our righteousness and He is the offering that was given for the remission of our sins, then our sins are forgiven, otherwise, why believe? Why the need for a saviour? Why then put Jesus on a cross and have Him die for us?
This is the main message of Christ, that He died for our sins. This is tied in very strongly with the OT requirement for an offering for the atonement of sins. It is because of Grace that we are saved. If we are saved, the bible says that God sees our sins no more, though are garments are scarlett, we are washed as white as snow. Or if you prefer, an older christian song said something along the lines of the blood of Jesus covering our sins. God will see the clothe of righteousness on us if we have Christ as our saviour. It is what the bible says.
Just help me to understand where you are coming from MC, what exactly is the problem?
That aside, how are you MC? Hope that you are well and have recovered fully! You take care of yourself.
This question was asked to further understand the stand of NCC worshippers.
If sin is commited, the believer should believe that he is covered in the blood of Jesus and Clothed in righteousness of Jesus. If he repents, he is putting Jesus on the cross again which is unnecessary; He need not repent.
God has forgiven you on the account of J. Christ.
They(My friends from NCC) said yes.
Next,
A christian believes in Christ, which means God will forgive his sins which he did in the past, the present and the future.
My friends said yes.
The problem is, why is it because of grace there is no need to repent even if sin was commited and people around us were affected or stumbled?
How come God's forgiveness extends to the future. He grace is ever for the people. But there have to be the act to recieve it don't you think so?
I see JP's point of view. And i understand his views.
Many people ask for forgiveness time and time again because they have no faith in themselves and in God.
They are stricken in guilt and not released. In fact these people are not living under the grace of God.
They are self concious their awareness do not let them live their Christian life effectively;To be the Light and salt of the world.
But i find JP's presentation awkward. Whenever this point of Grace was touched on.
Other than that, i've enjoyed his sermon and even considered being a member there.
Cheers -
Repentance is the turning away from a sin. so if u say it is hypocritical to repent n repent..u have got a point. but no need to repent and expect God's forgiveness....that is heretical. God's Spirit is not in you if u cant repent...ir..u r unregenerated and is still a sinner.Originally posted by M©+square:JP put it across rightly, God sees the heart ultimately. Like what my signature below says.
This question was asked to further understand the stand of NCC worshippers.
If sin is commited, the believer should believe that he is covered in the blood of Jesus and Clothed in righteousness of Jesus. If he repents, he is putting Jesus on the cross again which is unnecessary; He need not repent.
God has forgiven you on the account of J. Christ.
They(My friends from NCC) said yes.
Next,
A christian believes in Christ, which means God will forgive his sins which he did in the past, the present and the future.
My friends said yes.
The problem is, why is it because of grace there is no need to repent even if sin was commited and people around us were affected or stumbled?
How come God's forgiveness extends to the future. He grace is ever for the people. But there have to be the act to recieve it don't you think so?
I see JP's point of view. And i understand his views.
Many people ask for forgiveness time and time again because they have no faith in themselves and in God.
They are stricken in guilt and not released. In fact these people are not living under the grace of God.
They are self concious their awareness do not let them live their Christian life effectively;To be the Light and salt of the world.
But i find JP's presentation awkward. Whenever this point of Grace was touched on.
Other than that, i've enjoyed his sermon and even considered being a member there.
Cheers -
NT2,Originally posted by NT2:Repentance is the turning away from a sin. so if u say it is hypocritical to repent n repent..u have got a point. but no need to repent and expect God's forgiveness....that is heretical. God's Spirit is not in you if u cant repent...ir..u r unregenerated and is still a sinner.
We'll have to agree that those people which i've mentioned in my earlier post are geniune worshippers. I hope you'll see this point.
For these category of people. My point of view is that.
It is not hypocritical to repent because they are sincere Christians.
However, they are held in bondage of sins and this motion of guilt.
They do not understand and have the knowledge of 'the surpassing love and power of God'
They have not placed their confidence in Christ who have set them free.
This was the subject we've discussed earlier about 'sin catching' in this thread.
Next.
I did not agree that if sin was commited, there is 'no need to repent'.
If sin is commited against the Holy Spirit and the Spirit convicts. Repent is a must. So to reconcile with relationship with God once again.
Then again when to repent? It is all up to the believer.
Lastly,
You have said 'God's spirit is not in you if you cannot repent.'
On subject of 'regeneration'
In this context, we know that worshippers are regenerated.
It is not about Can or cannot repent.
It is about - repenting, is it a necessary act to do.
Do you agree that God have forgiven you of your past, present and future? -
ok sounds good. hahaOriginally posted by M©+square:NT2,
We'll have to agree that those people which i've mentioned in my earlier post are geniune worshippers. I hope you'll see this point.
For these category of people. My point of view is that.
It is not hypocritical to repent because they are sincere Christians.
However, they are held in bondage of sins and this motion of guilt.
They do not understand and have the knowledge of 'the surpassing love and power of God'
They have not placed their confidence in Christ who have set them free.
This was the subject we've discussed earlier about 'sin catching' in this thread.
Next.
I did not agree that if sin was commited, there is 'no need to repent'.
If sin is commited against the Holy Spirit and the Spirit convicts. Repent is a must. So to reconcile with relationship with God once again.
Then again when to repent? It is all up to the believer.
Lastly,
You have said 'God's spirit is not in you if you cannot repent.'
On subject of 'regeneration'
In this context, we know that worshippers are regenerated.
It is not about Can or cannot repent.
It is about - repenting, is it a necessary act to do.
Do you agree that God have forgiven you of your past, present and future?
my bottom line..whether repent or dun is not for me to say. jus dun abuse His grace.
we have marketed the gospel so freely and cheaply that ppl think the only way to escape the conviction of sins is to come to Christ...thats sad.