Double Deckers for SMRT
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I'll still say this. Go around and look at the infrastructure. You live with it. Also your still dun get what I'm saying. Here govt dun need to say anything, they just plan without allowance for bendies. Not to say we standardise things, ie layout of BI. So it's not surprising of how the new BI are built. Even the BNL, it's built just to accommodate the bendies, but if you look closely the span is similiar to the layover pt for the 12m buses.
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No one hates the bendies to the core. But SBS's experience tells it so with the info I get. And no it's not what 2656 said. More of planning issues. I'll leave it this way, when your infrastructure planning and road layout dun allow for long buses, the actual use only helps to you find out whether is it true or not. Not to say seeing on Mon night, 4 bendies and 1 SD of 190 flooding the RTC bus stop. Lucky there wasn't SBS buses from Dunearn Rd, else everyone dun need to move for that cycle. That's really jam. You live with the constrains and not challenge it.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
No one hates the bendies to the core. But SBS’s experience tells it so with the info I get.
And no it’s not what 2656 said. More of planning issues.
I’ll leave it this way, when your infrastructure planning and road layout dun allow for long buses, the actual use only helps to you find out whether is it true or not.
Not to say seeing on Mon night, 4 bendies and 1 SD of 190 flooding the RTC bus stop. Lucky there wasn’t SBS buses from Dunearn Rd, else everyone dun need to move for that cycle. That’s really jam. You live with the constrains and not challenge it.
Bendies in Singapore are a bit like DDs doing svc42. Bendies are not completely necessary, just increase bus load. Sooner or later bendies will just disappear from the roads completely. Bendies are only completely necessary in big roads and stuff in other countries. Roads are big there. -
Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:Bendies in Singapore are a bit like DDs doing
svc42. Bendies are not completely necessary, just increase bus
load. Sooner or later bendies will just disappear from the roads
completely. Bendies are only completely necessary in big roads and
stuff in other countries. Roads are big there.
Yes, put a cap on the number of bendy buses the operators are allowed to purchase.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
I'm not petty but seems like you are acting like 'an authorative figure' here, claiming you have heard from 'your source' here and there, Which is ficitious in the first place. Your point here isnt even 'strong enough' to prove me wrong. Even if they didn't make it official they can twist and bend the rules anytime they want to. To me you are just another bendy hater who forces SMRT to switch to double decks and implement it on the spot. I do accept facts only if they are made official and not the fictious ones you've made. You can't give official statements don't try to act authority here.
Like what I had said before, if you don't believe, that is your own problem. I don't have to force you to believe. I think you are the one who is acting authoritative here, refusing to let other views being shared here and only insist that what you think and what you like can only be posted here in your favor.
My points here are good enough to sustain my claims, infrastrutural developments, future fleet increments, other road users' complains on these long vehicles, other BCs' complains as well, even SMRT itself has already considering switching to double deckers, LTA's future developments and past lessons of long bus queues; it is just you who still don't see the big picture.
And stop acting like you are the head of LTA or minister of transport to demand every news to be made official to you. Such decisions will not be made official to the public and there is no need for LTA and transport operators to do so.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
Personally, I feel it can't be forced to let drivers take DDs for SMRT because most of the time they are stuck on bendies. I believe they are better off driving bendies though.
So in your view, TIBS forced their BCs to drive bendies when they only know how to drive single deckers???
How do you know they are better off driving bendies??? Go look at the jams in bus interchanges in Yishun, Woodlands and the frustrations of other buses behind once a bendy block the road??? If they can drive a shorter bus to make their lives, why drive a longer bus??? They need to pay extra attention of the length behind, and that can be extra tiring for BCs who have to drive so many hours a day.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
So in your view, TIBS forced their BCs to drive bendies when they only know how to drive single deckers???
How do you know they are better off driving bendies??? Go look at the jams in bus interchanges in Yishun, Woodlands and the frustrations of other buses behind once a bendy block the road??? If they can drive a shorter bus to make their lives, why drive a longer bus??? They need to pay extra attention of the length behind, and that can be extra tiring for BCs who have to drive so many hours a day.
They had special trainings once for bendies, don't want to go all out training the SMRT BCs yet again for DDs.
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
They had special trainings once for bendies, don't want to go all out training the SMRT BCs yet again for DDs.
I am not very sure about the training part but I guess it is not that difficult to drive a double decker since they have the same length as single deckers. Just that they need to be more careful on sharp turns. Route for double deckers are already pre planned and so should be no problems as long as BCs stick to their routes.
I believe the major obstacle is the depot, which I hope the new one for SMRT can accommodate double deckers.
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Its also the responsability of BCs to look out for objects that can hit the upper-deck....I don't think that's easy.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Its also the responsability of BCs to look out for objects that can hit the upper-deck....I don't think that's easy.
But it's the same for bendies as well. They have to look out for the trailer part so as not to hit other objects, vehicles and people behind.
And they even have to decide whether to squeeze in front after a junction or wait for the next traffic light as not to block the adjacent traffic.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
I am not very sure about the training part but I guess it is not that difficult to drive a double decker since they have the same length as single deckers. Just that they need to be more careful on sharp turns. Route for double deckers are already pre planned and so should be no problems as long as BCs stick to their routes.
I believe the major obstacle is the depot, which I hope the new one for SMRT can accommodate double deckers.
someone said in earlier post here that it will take 2/9 months for complete training, which is kind of inconvenient for them.
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Anyway can someone lock this topic already? Let SMRT make the decision, the only thing we can do here is blabber over useless specifications
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I had written the same point as the starting point to my thread and SMRT replied that it is considering using Double deckers and it should soon be coming with a positive decision on it, but it is still under review.
So guess that rests the argument. It is not bendy v/s DD. It is just that DDs will make the journey more comfortable especially for SMRT routes as they are long-haul routes.
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:Anyway can someone lock this topic already? Let SMRT make the decision, the only thing we can do here is blabber over useless specifications
I don't see the need to lock the thread. It can instead give SMRT another insight in operating double deckers.
Want to lock thread, might as well lock the one speculating Citaro G and MAN bendies created by a brainless spammer...
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I had written the same point as the starting point to my thread and SMRT replied that it is considering using Double deckers and it should soon be coming with a positive decision on it, but it is still under review.
So guess that rests the argument. It is not bendy v/s DD. It is just that DDs will make the journey more comfortable especially for SMRT routes as they are long-haul routes.
I believe SMRT would benefit from increased productivity and maybe even enjoy slight reduction of cost overheads by buying some ADDs. I think 2 ADDs can replace 3 SD regular buses, hence cutting down manpower which is getting difficult to find and retain. And I believe ADDs can carry more passengers than bendies during peak hours. Also, there are many more seats onboard ADDs hence gaining more commuter satisfaction. I remember when sv190 was handed over to Tibs, people started writing to ST Forums to complain there's no more DDs and now got to stand onboard Tibs buses. If SMRT were to stick to the principle of using SD regulars for entire fleet, then LTA should prepare to allocate more parking bays at the future SMRT controlled new bus interchanges. Maybe up to 4-5 parking lots per high demand route! And also LTA should prepare to have more Alighting Bays! Also, are bendies prone to more maintenance problems than ADDs? The bus operators will understand. -
Originally posted by sbst275:
I’ll still say this.
Go around and look at the infrastructure. You live with it.
Also your still dun get what I’m saying. Here govt dun need to say anything, they just plan without allowance for bendies.
Not to say we standardise things, ie layout of BI. So it’s not surprising of how the new BI are built.
Even the BNL, it’s built just to accommodate the bendies, but if you look closely the span is similiar to the layover pt for the 12m buses.
It's not asif every vehicle comes in they can fit in automatically.
The authorities are definitely flexible over this. They will assess every vehicle that comes into our road. Even they don't say anything, That means they are flexible. If they made a decision, That means it's set after a long discussion.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
So in your view, TIBS forced their BCs to drive bendies when they only know how to drive single deckers???
How do you know they are better off driving bendies??? Go look at the jams in bus interchanges in Yishun, Woodlands and the frustrations of other buses behind once a bendy block the road??? If they can drive a shorter bus to make their lives, why drive a longer bus??? They need to pay extra attention of the length behind, and that can be extra tiring for BCs who have to drive so many hours a day.
I strongly feel that they are trained individuals that can handle situations that come by when driving long vehicles. If they are trained to take shorter bus yes they can, But if they are called on to take bendies they can also take up the challenge to them.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Its also the responsability of BCs to look out for objects that can hit the upper-deck....I don't think that's easy.
Everything has it's short and long, I believe these individuals are trained to handle the stress of handling these machines that is allowed on our roads.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Like what I had said before, if you don't believe, that is your own problem. I don't have to force you to believe. I think you are the one who is acting authoritative here, refusing to let other views being shared here and only insist that what you think and what you like can only be posted here in your favor.
My points here are good enough to sustain my claims, infrastrutural developments, future fleet increments, other road users' complains on these long vehicles, other BCs' complains as well, even SMRT itself has already considering switching to double deckers, LTA's future developments and past lessons of long bus queues; it is just you who still don't see the big picture.
And stop acting like you are the head of LTA or minister of transport to demand every news to be made official to you. Such decisions will not be made official to the public and there is no need for LTA and transport operators to do so.
I just want simple facts, That's all.
The authorities will see and assess themselves whether or not they will let that kind of vehicles on our roads. Your claims seems to me are bread-and-butter issues which are common in our society.
And once again, I am neither the head, nor the minister. All I want is simple facts, report and news. That's all.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
I don't see the need to lock the thread. It can instead give SMRT another insight in operating double deckers.
Want to lock thread, might as well lock the one speculating Citaro G and MAN bendies created by a brainless spammer...
truetrue
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
I believe SMRT would benefit from increased productivity and maybe even enjoy slight reduction of cost overheads by buying some ADDs. I think 2 ADDs can replace 3 SD regular buses, hence cutting down manpower which is getting difficult to find and retain. And I believe ADDs can carry more passengers than bendies during peak hours. Also, there are many more seats onboard ADDs hence gaining more commuter satisfaction. I remember when sv190 was handed over to Tibs, people started writing to ST Forums to complain there's no more DDs and now got to stand onboard Tibs buses. If SMRT were to stick to the principle of using SD regulars for entire fleet, then LTA should prepare to allocate more parking bays at the future SMRT controlled new bus interchanges. Maybe up to 4-5 parking lots per high demand route! And also LTA should prepare to have more Alighting Bays! Also, are bendies prone to more maintenance problems than ADDs? The bus operators will understand.Well, you have mentioned a good and valid point. SMRT do need ADDs on some of their higher capacity routes, and this is very well a fact. This is especially so for routes like 969, 851, 190 that do not have high turnover of passengers.
However, lets see this from a slightly different perspective. Firstly, their depots are designed to support single decks all along, this is a problem. Money would have to be invested into new equipment (e.g. automatic washer, higher loading vehicle lifts/jacks, maintenance bays to accomodate the higher vehicles, etc). But this is kind of money must be spent to improve service, and should not be a deterrent.
However, the issue comes in with regards to what ADDs can they purchase. In order to have a good cost saving, they should get DDs that shares components with their SDs unless its going to be a huge fleet. This naturally points to Mercedes Benz and MAN. MB stopped producing chassis available for full size double decks after the O305. As for MAN, their integral DD (the big yellow ones you can find in wiki) are firstly not available for RHD markets, are too long (14m), and costs a bomb (nearly 800k each vs. 550k for the b9tl). As for chassis, im not sure if they still produced any, but the ones used by KMB are rather dissapointing in performance. Remaining few manufactuers who produce 3 axle DDs are Volvo, AlexanderDennis and Scania. Volvo B9TL are good, but the links with cdge as distributor might be an issue. As for the other two, they are still relatively unproven here and will cause a overhead on mechanics training and procurement of spare parts. To add on to this, they still need to call for tender and see whos willing to bid for it. Buying a bus is not as easy as going to a shop and throwing money at the cashier!
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Currently which ADDs power output is greater than the NLs?They have a culture that high capacity buses must be more greater in Hp term over their SDs.Seriously B9TLs is out of question cause 310hp/1400 nm can rival the MANs.I can only think either they buy AD Enviro 500 with 335hp/1500nm or MANs custom DD chassis.Again Amdep had to go refurbish.Rooftop must be replace with higher ones
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do we need those big buses??? with new MRT downtown line coming there is no need for big buses. all we need is more SDs new buses and good timing.
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The bus network will still grow because of new demand. The MRT will only serve the main corridor and many would realise many ppl take MRT for a few reasons. Thinking bus is less frequent but in some cases taking MRT incur distance fare and may even incur longer time in reality. Bus less direct, not true. They only know how to take MRT
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With downtown line coming, operators will have to look at re-organizing the current routes. Buses will still be VERY important because MRTs only connect the main junctions, then you have to use buses to get to your destination.
In fact with a better organization of bus routes, it can serve many people to use buses for point to point travel. For instance, instead of changing trains and walking long distances in an MRT station, if a direct bus serves two points, it is more convenient, even if the travel time > 10-20 mins.
The advantages are point to point transfer, comfortable with high probability of getting a seat compared to MRT and reduced walking at MRTs. This is critical while going to work.
So I feel using more big buses will be beneficial to give comfortable journey to passengers. If SDs are operated on long routes, passengers will further be demotivated to take buses with the fear of not getting a seat.
Just my thoughts!