Why do buses have to be 12m?
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before citing examples with the VO2x, dennis dart and bendys, i'm referring to the majority.
hong kong has many models which are 10.6, 10.3 or even 10.1m because of some bendy roads especially on hong kong island. nevertheless i think they are well suited for service.
rather than having 12m as the smallest bus available, i would rather see higher frequencies made with shorter buses. a good example is the enviro 400 recently introduced in hong kong.
just an idea. anyone who knows more details, or comments on the feasibility?
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Firstly, if you compare the roads in singapore, there aren't much mountainous roads or tight roads.
Secondly, the amount of passengers used in the service. Sv 92 got upgraded because of the crowd at Science Park. that could explain the demise of Darts from 92. Sv 42 still remains due to the fact that it passes by tight one way roads but there were cases where Sv 42 gotten 12m cameos and all turned up quite well.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
Firstly, if you compare the roads in singapore, there aren't much mountainous roads or tight roads.
Secondly, the amount of passengers used in the service. Sv 92 got upgraded because of the crowd at Science Park. that could explain the demise of Darts from 92. Sv 42 still remains due to the fact that it passes by tight one way roads but there were cases where Sv 42 gotten 12m cameos and all turned up quite well.
You've forgotten the other end of Sv 92's route. If suay suay all w/ side parking, tat's it. I happened to be onboard on one such incident.It's not abt tight roads, it's because compared to the kampong days i.e. single lane per direction carriageways, the roads are more 12m friendly.
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Originally posted by sir_peanuts:
before citing examples with the VO2x, dennis dart and bendys, i'm referring to the majority.
hong kong has many models which are 10.6, 10.3 or even 10.1m because of some bendy roads especially on hong kong island. nevertheless i think they are well suited for service.
rather than having 12m as the smallest bus available, i would rather see higher frequencies made with shorter buses. a good example is the enviro 400 recently introduced in hong kong.
just an idea. anyone who knows more details, or comments on the feasibility?
Enviro 400 is a 2 axle double deck, as good as VO2x.
With resources being tight, going w/ 10.6m buses wun do well. Even so, you would end up w/ more net buses plying the roads/ bus stops. It's not desirable during peak hours.
I think what more be done is to procure 2x ADDs. LTA work w/ NParks to reduce the no of roads/ stretches tat are double decker no go zone.
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Using smaller buses on less-demanding services with better frequencies would be much better than having a full 12m bus running empty or half-empty at a longer interval. For example, 882 is usually, at best, half-filled. Using a smaller bus like the Enviro200, MAN 14.220 would be more efficient fuel-wise, especially when the bus is not very heavily loaded. 354 also tends to run about with barely any passengers. Using smaller, more efficient buses here could be beneficial. However, it's only feasible if more services require smaller buses. It's not much use if only 1 or 2 services require these smaller buses, because maintenance costs will be relatively high.
Services I think have use for smaller buses: 926, 925C, 882, 354, 408 and 409, RWS8, RWS88, 927, 284.
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926 and RWS8 leave it 12m bah..
unless 926 use shorter bus but coming more frequently. which will only increase operating costs.
RWS8.. never know how long it'll take you to get out frm RWS to vivo.
use 12m everyone sit down better. -
Originally posted by sinicker:
926 and RWS8 leave it 12m bah..
unless 926 use shorter bus but coming more frequently. which will only increase operating costs.
RWS8.. never know how long it'll take you to get out frm RWS to vivo. use 12m everyone sit down better.Or we could have 10.6m buses with one PIW space that has foldable seats in place.
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Originally posted by Raraken:
Using smaller buses on less-demanding services with better frequencies would be much better than having a full 12m bus running empty or half-empty at a longer interval. For example, 882 is usually, at best, half-filled. Using a smaller bus like the Enviro200, MAN 14.220 would be more efficient fuel-wise, especially when the bus is not very heavily loaded. 354 also tends to run about with barely any passengers. Using smaller, more efficient buses here could be beneficial. However, it's only feasible if more services require smaller buses. It's not much use if only 1 or 2 services require these smaller buses, because maintenance costs will be relatively high.
Services I think have use for smaller buses: 926, 925C, 882, 354, 408 and 409, RWS8, RWS88, 927, 284.
No ptIf you gotta buy 10.6m SDs, you'll end up having to face additional cost due of non standardisation. To me it's either midi, 12m, 2x ADD or 3x ADD.
408 & 409 uses Sv 93 x-over.
RWS8 is considering weekend load. RWS88 to cease ops aft tis weekend.
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Plan for bus sv capacity has to be based on peak hrs.
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One word: Demand
anyway CityBus of HK has purchase 1 2 axles wright & 1 MAN 2 axles which bodywork is simillar to SBS7888K .. cheers!!
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Originally posted by bus555:
One word: Demand
anyway CityBus of HK has purchase 1 2 axles wright & 1 MAN 2 axles which bodywork is simillar to SBS7888K .. cheers!!
Yah... we saw this info in other forums... -
why in the past sbst only bought 10m DDs? im referringg to those LAs and LO2x
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Back them dun have the preference for 3x DD. Any case our population then was 2.8m
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Midi-buses are pharsing out here. Even 42 now can use 12m buses.
What do you think??? Operators would rather use all standardised fleet as operating and maintanace costs are much more cost efficient.
And as said, Hong Kong roads varies because of types of roads and most of them are all double deckers, regardless of lengths. So they can cope with the crowds even if the buses are shorter.
However, over here it's 60% single deckers and 40% double deckers. Unless LTA approve and sponsor part of SBST's fleet renewal expenses for more double deckers, if not, how can shorter single deckers going to manage the commuter load in a crowded city like Singapore???
Originally posted by sbst275:Back them dun have the preference for 3x DD. Any case our population then was 2.8m
But back then, then Ministry of Transport, did they approve 3 axles public buses in the first place??? Since the only first 3 axles public bus was the Leyland Olympian air con double decker in 1993. -
Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Midi-buses are pharsing out here. Even 42 now can use 12m buses.
What do you think??? Operators would rather use all standardised fleet as operating and maintanace costs are much more cost efficient.
And as said, Hong Kong roads varies because of types of roads and most of them are all double deckers, regardless of lengths. So they can cope with the crowds even if the buses are shorter.
However, over here it's 60% single deckers and 40% double deckers. Unless LTA approve and sponsor part of SBST's fleet renewal expenses for more double deckers, if not, how can shorter single deckers going to manage the commuter load in a crowded city like Singapore???
But back then, then Ministry of Transport, did they approve 3 axles public buses in the first place??? Since the only first 3 axles public bus was the Leyland Olympian air con double decker in 1993.
wat's e population of Singapore today?We're forward looking ppl back in 1980s
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Originally posted by sbst275:
wat's e population of Singapore today?We're forward looking ppl back in 1980s
So you mean we are going towards more double decker fleet in future, like in Hong Kong??? -
Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
So you mean we are going towards more double decker fleet in future, like in Hong Kong???
I would always tell ppl tat I know tis: Singapore will just become Hong Kong in no time. Soon it's must have car park lot to buy car -
Originally posted by sbst275:
I would always tell ppl tat I know tis: Singapore will just become Hong Kong in no time. Soon it's must have car park lot to buy carBut Hong Kong do not have the idea of multistorey carparks. We have ample carpark spaces from multistorey carparks.
Hopefully they will scrap ERP and COE then.
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when KMB launched LO3x, SBS was alrdy pretty interested.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
But Hong Kong do not have the idea of multistorey carparks.
U sure ?
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If you are saying about replacements for Darts and fleet addition for unpopular service; http://www.wright-bus.com/streetlite/
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Originally posted by dan474:
If you are saying about replacements for Darts and fleet addition for unpopular service; http://www.wright-bus.com/streetlite/
length of DF option min is 10.2mDart Enviro 200 might still be a better option
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Originally posted by sir_peanuts:
before citing examples with the VO2x, dennis dart and bendys, i'm referring to the majority.
hong kong has many models which are 10.6, 10.3 or even 10.1m because of some bendy roads especially on hong kong island. nevertheless i think they are well suited for service.
rather than having 12m as the smallest bus available, i would rather see higher frequencies made with shorter buses. a good example is the enviro 400 recently introduced in hong kong.
just an idea. anyone who knows more details, or comments on the feasibility?
As long as cost and efficiency is concerned to cater the increasing needs to serve the unnecessary population increase here, you can really say goodbye to all the short buses. Even service 42 is using B10Ms now.
It's not like last time where we still have around 10m Albion Vikings, and standard 12m ones. All these have became history since the 1990s.
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They probably use them for the amount of passengers getting on that route. Crowded 10m's or 11m's might be suitable for 12m buses. Most Likely Volvo Olympians or Super Olympians...
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Depots, parking lots, roads design, they're all customised for 12-metre buses already.