Launch of SMRT Service 188R with effect from 01 May 2010
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Originally posted by SBS7382C:
wonder why SMRT has all these RWS services when SBST doesnt have a single one...it would be nice to have sth for the east....
because they are free to run bus services, basic or not, according to demand on non-working-day weekends, and this usually results in a smaller scheduled fleet than the holding fleet.
thus, assuming there are enough buses to go around on a weekend, any decision to run these special services on weekends is considered solely on the basis of cost and revenue, i.e. profitability. the only upfront cost to SMRT is salary and fuel, since the bus will be "sleeping" inside the depot anyway if there were no such services.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
What's the point when the primary resources are allocated to better serve the public bus commuters instead? All these services are secondary. SBST can introduce such services if they have more than enough resources in future.Better as compared to giving crap buses that are tearing apart because of constant poor maintanance and supposed to be scrapped long ago old UDs and not road worthy ELBOs for public basic services, and divert the new buses to secondary bus services instead. Worse, they don't even bother to buy a few more new buses to replace these old buses. Such irresponsible company just don't know how to priortise what is their primary purpose of operations.
If I'm not wrong these are part of the plans for RWS package.
On the contrary, I support what SMRT is doing now. Instead of buying small amounts of buses now, they hold on for another year or two and probably mass replace the outgoing O405s, Scanias and DAFs. They might get a better deal with a bulk purchase.
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Originally posted by off_service:
If I'm not wrong these are part of the plans for RWS package.
On the contrary, I support what SMRT is doing now. Instead of buying small amounts of buses now, they hold on for another year or two and probably mass replace the outgoing O405s, Scanias and DAFs. They might get a better deal with a bulk purchase.
Stretching resources and their profits and compromising standards of services constantly to the lowest is really an irresponsible and unwise thing to account for public commuters who pay the company everyday for their services.Not just buying new buses, they couldn't even bother to squeeze another dollar to better maintain their current fleet. And I see nothing wrong with buying small amount of buses to improve service standards, just like what SBS did for the 20 Tridents and 12 B10BLE CNGs, and TIBS for their 2 Volgren Lances. The bottomline they care is still their own pockets.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Stretching resources and their profits and compromising standards of services constantly to the lowest is really an irresponsible and unwise thing to account for public commuters who pay the company everyday for their services.Not just buying new buses, they couldn't even bother to squeeze another dollar to better maintain their current fleet. And I see nothing wrong with buying small amount of buses to improve service standards, just like what SBS did for the 20 Tridents and 12 B10BLE CNGs, and TIBS for their 2 Volgren Lances. The bottomline they care is still their own pockets.
They have more than enough buses to go around during weekends. They are stretching resources only if they operate the RWS (except RWS8) and the R services on weekdays as well. Like what tamago said in the previous post, why not let the buses run for revenue when they are most likely "sleeping" in depot?
The TIBS Volgren Lance are part of the order, just that they are bodied differently.
I seriously wonder how high is your expected quality of service. Frankly speaking, it's not as if SBS Transit has no flaws. Don't bother telling me any other excuses which I won't buy because your replies are always whining about SMRT. Quite expected from your replies, your basis of complaints are always the same old thing which most people has come to live with or possibly found other alternatives. ELBOs are seriously quite nice to ride in.
I hardly see people who lived in SMRT areas complain about the services like some fellow forum users do. Poor understanding of how SMRT operates? Or just a way to pick at SMRT? Up to you guys to decide.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
What's the point when the primary resources are allocated to better serve the public bus commuters instead? All these services are secondary. SBST can introduce such services if they have more than enough resources in future.Better as compared to giving crap buses that are tearing apart because of constant poor maintanance and supposed to be scrapped long ago old UDs and not road worthy ELBOs for public basic services, and divert the new buses to secondary bus services instead. Worse, they don't even bother to buy a few more new buses to replace these old buses. Such irresponsible company just don't know how to priortise what is their primary purpose of operations.
right. why not you go and plan how these primary resources should be allocated in your own context? and in bold. how many times do you need to be reminded of the first post you have made in the bus forum? you said a bus company should not be judged by their standards. and now you are judging the company based on the buses they are used.
Originally posted by vicamour:
And I am even more surprised and pissed that you people here can judge a bus company based on the type of buses they buy, and not the level of service they should and had provided. This shows the level of understanding of bus operations and commuters' needs here. Pardon me for being straightforward, but some of you people judgments here is downright silly and childish. It shows that you people don't know what are public bus service for basically.even if the buses are already quite "old", they're still serviceable.
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lets all not go off topic (:
i hope to see 1H, 905Y, DAFs or Hinos on 188R in Sentosa. Haha. same for Scanias on 963R.
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Originally posted by off_service:
They have more than enough buses to go around during weekends. They are stretching resources only if they operate the RWS (except RWS8) and the R services on weekdays as well. Like what tamago said in the previous post, why not let the buses run for revenue when they are most likely "sleeping" in depot?
The TIBS Volgren Lance are part of the order, just that they are bodied differently.
I seriously wonder how high is your expected quality of service. Frankly speaking, it's not as if SBS Transit has no flaws. Don't bother telling me any other excuses which I won't buy because your replies are always whining about SMRT. Quite expected from your replies, your basis of complaints are always the same old thing which most people has come to live with or possibly found other alternatives. ELBOs are seriously quite nice to ride in.
I hardly see people who lived in SMRT areas complain about the services like some fellow forum users do. Poor understanding of how SMRT operates? Or just a way to pick at SMRT? Up to you guys to decide.
I don't see how excusable is that kind of justifcation when STOMP came up with a pic of a hole in a bendy.
There's only so much rent-seeking can take you. Seriously SMRT has exhibited more of that than SBST. You can't deny that.
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Originally posted by off_service:
They have more than enough buses to go around during weekends. They are stretching resources only if they operate the RWS (except RWS8) and the R services on weekdays as well. Like what tamago said in the previous post, why not let the buses run for revenue when they are most likely "sleeping" in depot?
The TIBS Volgren Lance are part of the order, just that they are bodied differently.
I seriously wonder how high is your expected quality of service. Frankly speaking, it's not as if SBS Transit has no flaws. Don't bother telling me any other excuses which I won't buy because your replies are always whining about SMRT. Quite expected from your replies, your basis of complaints are always the same old thing which most people has come to live with or possibly found other alternatives. ELBOs are seriously quite nice to ride in.
I hardly see people who lived in SMRT areas complain about the services like some fellow forum users do. Poor understanding of how SMRT operates? Or just a way to pick at SMRT? Up to you guys to decide.
SBST has its flaws, mainly slow buses, and that is the main and only flaw in their system. If I want to compare SBST with Hong Kong buses, they are still way behind.
No complains about SMRT? I just overheard two commuters on 851 complaining about 855 a few days back. When I took 961 just now, people are already complaining about frequencies. Look at the number of complains regarding about SMRTB in sites like STOMP, all these are more than enough to convince. And most of my friends living in the North and Northwest are so fed up with the bus services in their estates recently. Some wished that they can just drive to void all these stupid frustrations if they can afford one.
Only the people here have no complains about them just because their buses are faster. Yes, that is their sole and only good point.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I don't see how excusable is that kind of justifcation when STOMP came up with a pic of a hole in a bendy.
There's only so much rent-seeking can take you. Seriously SMRT has exhibited more of that than SBST. You can't deny that.
I don't deny that. However, what I was pinpointing at is what user vicamour has mentioned. He always used services with poor frequencies which are well known universally (like 61, 961) and old buses like UDs or ELBOs as a basis to rant at SMRT.
Like I said, both companies has flaw. Seems like many people has forgotten how the KUBs got complaint due to the steps and the jerkings. So, if that's the case, who are we to blame?
Sometimes we have to remember that the companies have over 3000 buses in total to maintain. It's not easy to have all buses in 100% conditions all the time. However, I also do not see the need to condemn a bus company just because it got stomped or use older buses? If so, many of us would have also condemned the KUBs already, right?
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Originally posted by vicamour:
SBST has its flaws, mainly slow buses, and that is the main and only flaw in their system. If I want to compare SBST with Hong Kong buses, they are still way behind.
No complains about SMRT? I just overheard two commuters on 851 complaining about 855 a few days back. When I took 961 just now, people are already complaining about frequencies. Look at the number of complains regarding about SMRTB in sites like STOMP, all these are more than enough to convince. And most of my friends living in the North and Northwest are so fed up with the bus services in their estates recently. Some wished that they can just drive to void all these stupid frustrations if they can afford one.
Only the people here have no complains about them just because their buses are faster. Yes, that is their sole and only good point.
Show me the line which I say SMRT has no flaws.
Thanks for making me the unique North dweller who is not-so-fed up with their services yet.
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Originally posted by off_service:
I don't deny that. However, what I was pinpointing at is what user vicamour has mentioned. He always used services with poor frequencies which are well known universally (like 61, 961) and old buses like UDs or ELBOs as a basis to rant at SMRT.
Like I said, both companies has flaw. Seems like many people has forgotten how the KUBs got complaint due to the steps and the jerkings. So, if that's the case, who are we to blame?
Sometimes we have to remember that the companies have over 3000 buses in total to maintain. It's not easy to have all buses in 100% conditions all the time. However, I also do not see the need to condemn a bus company just because it got stomped or use older buses? If so, many of us would have also condemned the KUBs already, right?
For a company that has roughly half the number of buses as the largest incumbent, SMRT has been in the limelight too often IMO, and that's rather telling.And they really should clean up the 0405Gs and not wait for some major refurbishment to clear the cobwebs. Heck, even the VO2X which should be dirtier since its NAC and is of comparable age with older SMRT buses is cleaner.
The hole was a shocker though....I admit, I was quite stunned to see that.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I don't see how excusable is that kind of justifcation when STOMP came up with a pic of a hole in a bendy.
There's only so much rent-seeking can take you. Seriously SMRT has exhibited more of that than SBST. You can't deny that.
someone posted here quite some time back where the floorboard cover was seen missing from a DD. explain that. if someone were to not see and step on gap that is not covered up by the floorboard cover, what do you think will happen? such incidents won't happen if maintenance standards are strict. both companies have yet to reach that standard but may improve or not gradually depending on time.
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Originally posted by BusSpeeder:
someone posted here quite some time back where the floorboard cover was seen missing from a DD. explain that. if someone were to not see and step on gap that is not covered up by the floorboard cover, what do you think will happen? such incidents won't happen if maintenance standards are strict. both companies have yet to reach that standard but may improve or not gradually depending on time.
Has it occured that a bendy on service 190 has missing floor board too many months back? And how about a dislodged exhaust pipe from a bendy in the same service as well weeks later? Do I see all these so often during TIBS era and SBST now?Singapore bus companies simply show no pride in their fleet, unlike what is so different in Hong Kong.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
SBST has its flaws, mainly slow buses, and that is the main and only flaw in their system. If I want to compare SBST with Hong Kong buses, they are still way behind.
No complains about SMRT? I just overheard two commuters on 851 complaining about 855 a few days back. When I took 961 just now, people are already complaining about frequencies. Look at the number of complains regarding about SMRTB in sites like STOMP, all these are more than enough to convince. And most of my friends living in the North and Northwest are so fed up with the bus services in their estates recently. Some wished that they can just drive to void all these stupid frustrations if they can afford one.
Only the people here have no complains about them just because their buses are faster. Yes, that is their sole and only good point.
what other examples regarding bad frequencies can you give besides 961? please bother to know that the roads that 961 plies are badly jammed up during peak hours so you can't expect good frequencies if that happens. the complains about the frequencies also makes no sense. they can only blame it on the traffic jams that are caused by the huge amount of vehicles out there.
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Originally posted by BusSpeeder:
what other examples regarding bad frequencies can you give besides 961? please bother to know that the roads that 961 plies are badly jammed up during peak hours so you can't expect good frequencies if that happens. the complains about the frequencies also makes no sense. they can only blame it on the traffic jams that are caused by the huge amount of vehicles out there.
Other examples? Most SMRTB services have bad frequencies, only a few have good frequencies, which are a few, 67, 190, 851, 854, 913, just to name a few.Blame it on traffic jams again? Why not blame their half hearted efforts in their bus operations all these years, on top of the overcrowded population problem in this country and LTA's reluctant efforts to improve bus systems and to build seamless systems like the guided bus system to make bus journeys free from other obstructions?
Back to topic, the buses used in these secondary services can jolly well use to improve bus services instead. Weekends doesn't mean that no one is using public buses. And the manpower and buses can be used for services that has very bad frequencies and high loading during weekends. As discussed before, services like 980 for example.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Has it occured that a bendy on service 190 has missing floor board too many months back? And how about a dislodged exhaust pipe from a bendy in the same service as well weeks later? Do I see all these so often during TIBS era and SBST now?Singapore bus companies simply show no pride in their fleet, unlike what is so different in Hong Kong.
that's only in your opinion. how about the recent case of a mkiv on 51 that crashed into the bus stop because it was said that the passengers said that the BC tried but couldn't stop the bus?
if you are here to rant about the standards of SBST and SMRT, i suggest you do it elsewhere. the standards of the companies here cannot be compared to HK, but if you cannot accept it then why not you help SBST and SMRT in improving their standards then, since you are criticising so much about their standards lacking far behind.
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Originally posted by BusSpeeder:
that's only in your opinion. how about the recent case of a mkiv on 51 that crashed into the bus stop because it was said that the passengers said that the BC tried but couldn't stop the bus?
if you are here to rant about the standards of SBST and SMRT, i suggest you do it elsewhere. the standards of the companies here cannot be compared to HK, but if you cannot accept it then why not you help SBST and SMRT in improving their standards then, since you are criticising so much about their standards lacking far behind.
I have done my constant feedback with SBST when I encounter any problems with their service standards. They replied and improved, which is still good, but they still need to buck up I also done my feedbacks with SMRTB when standards are unsatisfactory, which mostly I get weird and unsatisfactory replies or/and little actions, which I already give up.Originally posted by BusSpeeder:right. why not you go and plan how these primary resources should be allocated in your own context? and in bold. how many times do you need to be reminded of the first post you have made in the bus forum? you said a bus company should not be judged by their standards. and now you are judging the company based on the buses they are used.
even if the buses are already quite "old", they're still serviceable.
For a big company like SMRT which earns millions annually, they can be so stingy to buy a few buses just to replace those that should be deregistered since they are not road worthy and conditions that are so bad that gives so much complains.
You seems to be eager to point out my flaws in my posts. In the post you quote, I am talking about new buses being brought. In this context, I am talking about how badly some models are being maintained and should be taken off the roads instead of continuing to let them run on basic services at lower bus service standards, which in turn the company should use the new buses instead to fulfill better service standards for basic services rather than emphasizing on secondary services.
I am not aiming at any particular models for nothing, but the UDs and ELBOs are the worst maintained buses in Singapore public bus scene. Maintainance as in the service standards fared the worst for these 2 models. Since SMRTB can't be bothered to service and maintain them even to the basic standards of a proper bus condition, why continue to put them on service and let commuters suffer? UDs, especially the CACs, are supposed to be deregistered in 2009 already, why extend them anyway since their conditions are already bad? To the perception of bus fans, they are buses that are still within the age limit. But sorry, to the perception of the main public commuters, some can describe it as a 30 year old bus, and still on service with that kind of poorly maintained conditions. I have nothing against the OACs though.
Even SBST oldest WA Mercedes Benz O405 is better maintained than the CAC UDs and ELBOs.
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i LOL-ed at 854R.
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frequency 30-40mins. route quite short.
2 buses? -
Originally posted by vicamour:
Other examples? Most SMRTB services have bad frequencies, only a few have good frequencies, which are a few, 67, 190, 851, 854, 913, just to name a few.Blame it on traffic jams again? Why not blame their half hearted efforts in their bus operations all these years, on top of the overcrowded population problem in this country and LTA's reluctant efforts to improve bus systems and to build seamless systems like the guided bus system to make bus journeys free from other obstructions?
Back to topic, the buses used in these secondary services can jolly well use to improve bus services instead. Weekends doesn't mean that no one is using public buses. And the manpower and buses can be used for services that has very bad frequencies and high loading during weekends. As discussed before, services like 980 for example.
when the bus comes late, passengers complain. when buses bunches up, passengers also complain. as a commuter of both SBST and SMRTB buses daily, for SMRTB frequencies may be quite bad for some, but most of them arrive on time. as for SBST its the same thing, except frequency is better, but not everytime they arrive on the stated time.
how do you expect to improve the current bus system without affecting the bus services? you'll still get complaints from those who are affected by it. once again, these issues please complain it elsewhere. you can write in to the relevant authorities to show your dislike about the population issue and to ask them to improve the bus system. complaining (or rather posting) it here will not achieve anything..
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Any type of bus, even a UD, can be a good bus as long as the maintenance regime does it job properly. SMRT has put so much into campaigns to try and improve their image, surely walking the talk shouldn't be that hard either.
New buses on the first day are already being driven around as if they were pieces of trash. Triangle on 1H right in the middle of an expressway, 67T's aircon panel wide open, both of Day 1 service.
There are a few decisions which still puzzle me till today. Hinos on 925, OCs on RWS services and cameo on every other service frequently enough to be able to put together two or more new WAB routes.
The other day I overheard from a commuter on board a perm OC, "What's the point of having such new buses when we are squeezing right to the door? Where are the bigger buses we used to have (referring specifically, to the bendy buses)?"
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Originally posted by TIB657M:
Wonder would they deploy, x-fer some of WLDEP SP Merczs to KJDEP. Just a spectulation only.
i dun understand why there is a need to transfer SP merc to KJDEP? there is space at KJDEP? If so, why KJDEP transfer 4 merc over recently? further this is weekend service... there are more than enough SP buses to run around..
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Aiyo... you guys can complain all you want till the skies fall down - it's not going to change the fact that 188R will start operations on 1st May.
And I agree with sgbuses - there needs to be more bendies as their capacity is higher, boarding and alighting is so much more efficient compared to a DD.
I've taken 853 UDs for about 20 times since the start of the year. Their condition is excellent.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
For a big company like SMRT which earns millions annually, they can be so stingy to buy a few buses just to replace those that should be deregistered since they are not road worthy and conditions that are so bad that gives so much complains.
You seems to be eager to point out my flaws in my posts. In the post you quote, I am talking about new buses being brought. In this context, I am talking about how badly some models are being maintained and should be taken off the roads instead of continuing to let them run on basic services at lower bus service standards, which in turn the company should use the new buses instead to fulfill better service standards for basic services rather than emphasizing on secondary services.
I am not aiming at any particular models for nothing, but the UDs and ELBOs are the worst maintained buses in Singapore public bus scene. Maintainance as in the service standards fared the worst for these 2 models. Since SMRTB can't be bothered to service and maintain them even to the basic standards of a proper bus condition, why continue to put them on service and let commuters suffer? UDs, especially the CACs, are supposed to be deregistered in 2009 already, why extend them anyway since their conditions are already bad? To the perception of bus fans, they are buses that are still within the age limit. But sorry, to the perception of the main public commuters, some can describe it as a 30 year old bus, and still on service with that kind of poorly maintained conditions. I have nothing against the OACs though.
Even SBST oldest WA Mercedes Benz O405 is better maintained than the CAC UDs and ELBOs.
you need to take note that the CAC UDs and the ELBOs are still serviceable buses, and that a portion of them are still maintained quite nicely. why should they deregister these buses since in your context they are not "roadworthy"? the lifespan of these buses are even lesser than SBST O405 WA buses. and all 3 types are still servicing and slowly retiring out of service. as long as there's regular maintenance and standards still kept at a generally acceptable level, i don't see the reason why can't these buses be still on service when the standards and maintenance of the newer buses can only be kept to a certain level when these buses "age over time".
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