How to communicate with a ex-gangster sec2 educated?
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Originally posted by Lokey:
ok. If "society outcast" is inappropriate then what is a better term to use. To me, society outcast just means people who do not follow the norms of the society.
Wrong, I think people is just people, some of my friends are already dead at 16, 27 so what is there to say?
One of them is in Changi Prison, I just feel that I can do so much more before another of them do something wrong again. I really don't know, these people are out of logic. By the time the police catch them, even the best lawyer is useless.
I never say that they cannot contribute to society. If there is a communication problem then how does people approach them. How to even interact with them in the very first place
The one who is really having problem socially is not him.. it's you.
"They" do not need your sympathy or guidance. So quit acting like an elitist asshole..perhaps then he can consider you worthy enough to be his "acquaintance"
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i feel like giving u a punch .
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Originally posted by gohysteria:
Just adding my two-cents worth.
Start with respect. I do not know how you found out he is an ex-ganster and had up to sec 2 education. do not see him that way. treat him like another mate, a fellow guy who shares the same interest, i.e. going to the gym. there is no need to dumb down your speech with him. you might just have to speak a bit slower if you tends to rattle on a little. if you sense his vocabulary is limited, use common words that he could understand. there is no need to talk to him like a child. he might not be as well educated as you are, but he has life experiences that you probably never had.
be genuine. be honest. if you do not understand what he is trying to express or certain terms he uses, ask him to clarify for you. most people do not take offence if they can sense you are sincerely trying to communicate rather than mocking their command of the language. by doing this, he is likely to feel more comfortable to clarify with you if he doesn't understand any words you use.
ok point taken note.
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Tell you one thing, though - this bugger's level of narcissism is impressive.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
hmm, imo, educational level only affects the topics that u can talk to him about, which may affect the friendship in the long run, after all, conversation is one building block of friendship, abeit a small building block.
it's interesting you want to start a friendship with an ex gangster, i think it's great. btw how u know he's an ex gangster?
My first impression of him was actually "bad"... (someone with overwhelming tattoo and ... hummm) punch me if you want. Yes I was bias.
Then one encounter, I left my gym locker keys somewhere and somehow he return the keys to me. So therefore he is not so bad after all. I tried to communicate with him loh.
I prompt him some question he reply so eventually I get to know him better. First time talking to such people in my life.
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give him tough love
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Get it, try to be humble and accept his thoughts.
Should try to put him on the same level as I am, on equal ground.
Don't treat him like a child but a same level friend like usual people.
The fact is that i am posting a topic here is to try to understand how people are thinking. My view is limited and cannot extrapolate into other people thoughts by myself.
I admit I can be very egotistic. And I am trying to control that.
But do anyone of you all out there have real experience in dealing them ?
Any people like him who is willing to share what how your world is like
If I am using the wrong terminology for description then tell me what is a better word to use, then I change my wording from then on.
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If you're for real, here's a few simple tips to get started:
1) Assume that you're dumb
2) As an extension of 1), approach your interactions with people with the view that you're there to learn things from them
3) As an extension of 2), shut up and listen - if you're too busy talking you won't be able to learn anything
4) Also as an extension of 2), understand that they are the ones doing you a favour by providing you with their company, not the other way round. -
Originally posted by Lokey:
Get it, try to be humble and accept his thoughts.
Should try to put him on the same level as I am, on equal ground.
Don't treat him like a child but a same level friend like usual people.
The fact is that i am posting a topic here is to try to understand how people are thinking. My view is limited and cannot extrapolate into other people thoughts by myself.
I admit I can be very egotistic. And I am trying to control that.
But do anyone of you all out there have real experience in dealing them ?
Any people like him who is willing to share what how your world is like
Well, few things to take note of.
1. He is not dumb. You are not smart. that's just you hallucinating
2. Having tatoos doesn't mean he did gangs.
3. He may not like to speak in perfect english. That doesn't mean he has low education level. Even if his education level is low, that doesn't mean he is dumb.
Seen plenty of such people in the army. They are the same as any other people, except they may be more crude in their actions and words.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Get it, try to be humble and accept his thoughts.
Should try to put him on the same level as I am, on equal ground.
Don't treat him like a child but a same level friend like usual people.
The fact is that i am posting a topic here is to try to understand how people are thinking. My view is limited and cannot extrapolate into other people thoughts by myself.
I admit I can be very egotistic. And I am trying to control that.
But do anyone of you all out there have real experience in dealing them ?
Any people like him who is willing to share what how your world is like
If I am using the wrong terminology for description then tell me what is a better word to use, then I change my wording from then on.
my cell member's kids are in gangs. still in gangs. one of my platoon mates is a gangster too.
in my opinion, they are friendly in a superficial manner.
when you try to talk about serious stuff with them, like their future, etc, they tend to zone out, nothing really goes in, although they said "Yes yes. understand" then they'll try to switch topic to something else.
they pretty much live for the moment, they can be impulsive. and they love talking about fights and drugs.
in the face of jail time, they pretty much resigned themselves to it, justifying it as "before i walk this path, i already know either i die, or i go jail, but i choose this path, so i won't regret".
they don't really regret their actions, not until they realise they have wasted their lives, usually they just deny or try to distract themselves from thoughts of regret.
summary: they are fun, if you want someone to accompany u for a drink, but long lasting friendship is hard.
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Originally posted by PedoBear:
give him tough love
I hate this " tough love " program. I don't think sending a juvenile delinquent to boys home and hostel or whatever, help the person at all. i think it is a waste of time and it make them smaller and eventually affect their life and cannot carry on with it. A psychological scar that is hard to remove.
If I was being send to these places, I would react very violently. l am not someone that can control by force or instructions or whatever. I really will kill every one and tear the officers from limbs to limbs. no joke. I don't care if I exhaust myself or I get kill.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
I really will kill every one and tear the officers from limbs to limbs. no joke. I don't care if I exhaust myself or I get kill.
Wah, drama sia. Join Mediacock leh.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
I hate this " tough love " program. I don't think sending a juvenile delinquent to boys home and hostel or whatever, help the person at all. i think it is a waste of time and it make them smaller and eventually affect their life and cannot carry on with it. A psychological scar that is hard to remove.
If I was being send to these places, I would react very violently. l am not someone that can control by force or instructions or whatever. I really will kill every one and tear the officers from limbs to limbs. no joke. I don't care if I exhaust myself or I get kill.
Haha, and the officers will just let you tear them limb to limb. cos they are weak and don't expect the people they are dealing with to be violent to them.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
my cell member's kids are in gangs. still in gangs. one of my platoon mates is a gangster too.
in my opinion, they are friendly in a superficial manner.
when you try to talk about serious stuff with them, like their future, etc, they tend to zone out, nothing really goes in, although they said "Yes yes. understand" then they'll try to switch topic to something else.
they pretty much live for the moment, they can be impulsive. and they love talking about fights and drugs.
in the face of jail time, they pretty much resigned themselves to it, justifying it as "before i walk this path, i already know either i die, or i go jail, but i choose this path, so i won't regret".
they don't really regret their actions, not until they realise they have wasted their lives, usually they just deny or try to distract themselves from thoughts of regret.
summary: they are fun, if you want someone to accompany u for a drink, but long lasting friendship is hard.
Somehow I understand from him, that their thinking is quite different from me/us.
I/we can think in long term aspect in projection to 10, 20, 30.. 50 years down the road. But their thinking is only limited to now. Got money means ok already.
He cannot postulate that when his son grew up what would his son think of him. I predict that it would be very sad, for this son to be like him or condemn him.
I think he is still young so even if he do private O level he can get up to poly and uni and reach the same status as I am at 27. I don't understand why he just condemned himself as "I cannot make it one/ I cannot study one". I don't understand why he cannot see that after going through some education would break his earning limits so that can earn more money comparing to doing hard labor. I don't understand without O level, even he want to sign on army also cannot be done. I don't understand that his family belongs to middle income so funding is not an issue. I respect his view but I just don't understand him.
I actually conclude that these people don't have logical thinking or some kind of thinking skills. The problem is I don't think he is dumb at all.
Somehow I believe that he has some aspect and view of life which I am kin to know. Somehow I suspect he is actually trading option at night and earning big money. lol. He is somebody special that why I can more curious to know him. He has certain aspect and he is not as simple as "ex-gangster" that is on the surface.
I don't actually treat him more superior than me somehow he know something I don't know. And interested to know more.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
He cannot postulate that when his son grew up what would his son think of him. I predict that it would be very sad, for this son to be like him or condemn him.
Well, what about you? At the rate you're going, your kids will be embarrassed by your lack of social skills. Are you going to be so busy minding other people's business that you won't see that big hole you're headed for?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
Haha, and the officers will just let you tear them limb to limb. cos they are weak and don't expect the people they are dealing with to be violent to them.
Saying is easy mah. But I can lose control quite easy. Yes I admit I am an extremist, I got aggressiveness, violent behavior. I don't deny that. I can just punch people directly. A bit like gangster too.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Well, what about you? At the rate you're going, your kids will be embarrassed by your lack of social skills. Are you going to be so busy minding other people's business that you won't see that big hole you're headed for?
Thanks for the comment but one don't know me well enough. Don't say so much. Social skill is something that is gained through experience and I am gaining experience (just up a level). lol. It is good to respect other people. By saying that my social skill is weak, does it implies that person have low EQ as well.
I admit my point of view is always higher up and I try to look at all aspects from a bird eye view. I am what I am so what? Not everyone is perfect, Ok. I also have my weakness.
I know I can mind my own business and forget about him. As I say in previous post I am trying to understand his view of life. If I don't attempt I would never learn.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Hi all,
1. Ignore him completely because he is a low-level creature not worth the effort --> I was thinking that why the yellow project failed because the society treat ex-criminal as outcast. Should I follow the crowd?
2. Give him more time as these people are slow so to know him well, give him more time. How long do these people take to know each other to get to friend level? I only take a few ecounter I can treat him as a friend. But he humm.
3. Try to accommodate him as his language dictionary are limited --> so his speech is limited things therefore I don’t understand him but our communication already break down.
I think he is someone worthy to know or befriend with so how I should solve this problem. Any ingenious idea? Thank you.Is there a book called "how to communicate with society outcast for dummy?"
i think your education is not doing much for you either.
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Must be another white horse.
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woah woah woah. enough with the condemnation guys.
i know it's politically incorrect to sterotype people, but i don't see anyone here smiling at a gangster and wishing him good day for the sake of being polite either.
so ya, get off your moral high horses la.
TS is just being honest about how he feel, which is more than i can say for the rest of us
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Thanks for the comment but one don't know me well enough. Don't say so much. Social skill is something that is gained through experience and I am gaining experience (just up a level). lol. It is good to respect other people. By saying that my social skill is weak, does it implies that person have low EQ as well.
I admit my point of view is always higher up and I try to look at all aspects from a bird eye view. I am what I am so what? Not everyone is perfect, Ok. I also have my weakness.
I know I can mind my own business and forget about him. As I say in previous post I am trying to understand his view of life. If I don't attempt I would never learn.
Sport, I don't have to know you to tell where you're coming from. I deal with assessing problems with people's interactive styles and the phrases you use, plus your frames of reference, tell me more than enough.
EQ's a bullshit term used by people who have no concept of the rubbish theory that hogs the pop psychology headlines.
Don't go fooling yourself into thinking that you've got a bird's eye view of anything. You've already proven that you're myopic enough to make as severe a misinterpretation of your tendency to piss people off as people's admiring and fearing you. Take your hand off it and get your head round the idea that you haven't got a clue.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
woah woah woah. enough with the condemnation guys.
i know it's politically incorrect to sterotype people, but i don't see anyone here smiling at a gangster and wishing him good day for the sake of being polite either.
so ya, get off your moral high horses la.
TS is just being honest about how he feel, which is more than i can say for the rest of us
There's no moral high horse to get off. This guy's wading in here claiming that people fear and admire him when all he's done is get on their bad side, and then God knows who he's trying to impress with this Mother-Theresa-blessing-the-poor-wretches-with-her-divine-presence routine.
Maybe he's being honest about how he feels, but he sure as hell ain't being honest with himself about what he sees - people are just avoiding him and for good reason, but he reads it as their fear of him. I honestly don't know whether to laugh or puke.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Somehow I understand from him, that their thinking is quite different from me/us.
I/we can think in long term aspect in projection to 10, 20, 30.. 50 years down the road. But their thinking is only limited to now. Got money means ok already.
He cannot postulate that when his son grew up what would his son think of him. I predict that it would be very sad, for this son to be like him or condemn him.
I think he is still young so even if he do private O level he can get up to poly and uni and reach the same status as I am at 27. I don't understand why he just condemned himself as "I cannot make it one/ I cannot study one". I don't understand why he cannot see that after going through some education would break his earning limits so that can earn more money comparing to doing hard labor. I don't understand without O level, even he want to sign on army also cannot be done. I don't understand that his family belongs to middle income so funding is not an issue. I respect his view but I just don't understand him.
I actually conclude that these people don't have logical thinking or some kind of thinking skills. The problem is I don't think he is dumb at all.
Somehow I believe that he has some aspect and view of life which I am kin to know. Somehow I suspect he is actually trading option at night and earning big money. lol. He is somebody special that why I can more curious to know him. He has certain aspect and he is not as simple as "ex-gangster" that is on the surface.
I don't actually treat him more superior than me somehow he know something I don't know. And interested to know more.
A human being doesnt even understand ownself 100%, on wat grounds does one expect to understand others?
I, for one, was being categorised & condemned. I hated it & still do. Therefore, I play my part not to do the same to others. Mayb u really do not hav the intention, but ur usage of words disturbed me greatly. If u sincerely wanna be fren to someone, stop being a saint, bcos not all wanna be helped. They may jus want a listenin ear or simply, a presence.
U are able to describe him..i wonder why do u say there's communication breakdown then?? Or are those things abt him are purely ur assumptions?
Try doin tis instead: Treat all as a storybook, for everyone has their own life story. Slowly digest & turn the pages carefully, their story will reveal. Do not judge them by their cover. Get it?
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Originally posted by RedizAlertz:
A human being doesnt even understand ownself 100%, on wat grounds does one expect to understand others?
I, for one, was being categorised & condemned. I hated it & still do. Therefore, I play my part not to do the same to others. Mayb u really do not hav the intention, but ur usage of words disturbed me greatly. If u sincerely wanna be fren to someone, stop being a saint, bcos not all wanna be helped. They may jus want a listenin ear or simply, a presence.
U are able to describe him..i wonder why do u say there's communication breakdown then?? Or are those things abt him are purely ur assumptions?
Try doin tis instead: Treat all as a storybook, for everyone has their own life story. Slowly digest & turn the pages carefully, their story will reveal. Do not judge them by their cover. Get it?
Another thing, if u decided tat u hav no interest in their story, it's perfectly ok to put it down. Do not force urself to read on, it's an insult to the author. Leave it as it is for others who appreciates.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
There's no moral high horse to get off. This guy's wading in here claiming that people fear and admire him when all he's done is get on their bad side, and then God knows who he's trying to impress with this Mother-Theresa-blessing-the-poor-wretches-with-her-divine-presence routine.
Maybe he's being honest about how he feels, but he sure as hell ain't being honest with himself about what he sees - people are just avoiding him and for good reason, but he reads it as their fear of him. I honestly don't know whether to laugh or puke.
still... =/